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Headquarters Renovation

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6:07 pm
November 26, 2009


angofbew

Member

posts 1016

11

Yet again Cornwalls History being undervalued. This building is, as it says, the Duchy Palace, evidently the Palace of the Duke, Monarch of Cornwall at that time. It is possibly one of the oldest Government Buildings in Brtain as well. This Building must be treated with the respect it deserves and taken into Cornish ownership. IMHO the plans suggested are like making Buck House a YMCA or Windsor Castle into a Village Hall, that would never happen. Maybe a group could be formed to give this building the respect it deserves.

11:13 am
November 27, 2009


sha'zron

C24 Regular

posts 624

12

angofbew: This Building must be treated with the respect it deserves and taken into Cornish ownership

Not sure how the building can be taken in to Cornish ownership?  the Duke now has control of it.


imo It should be used to tell the history of the Stannary etc & the hall would be a good place to bring parties of school children to educate them in matters of Cornish history because this is so badly lacking in Cornwall…

But even if this was to happen what are the chances of them actually being told the truth…


The Stannary jail is  houses, they still have the bars at the windows upstairs…


angofbew: Maybe a group could be formed to give this building the respect it deserves.

Well certainly Cornish groups etc should take more interest as this is as you say a very very important building in Cornish history…

11:20 am
November 27, 2009


marhak

Member

posts 6957

13

Trouble is, Angofbew, you'll never persuade government departments and their heritage quangos to recognise it's true importance as one of the oldest Government buildings in Britain (and quite possibly wider).  It isn't politically expedient from their point of view.  Remember that "English" Heritage refused point blank to recognise the five Anglo-Cornish battlefields of 1549, or to include them on the Register of British Battlefields, even though they ranked among the biggest and bloodiest battles ever fought on British soil.

12:20 pm
November 28, 2009


Carbilly

C24 Regular

posts 45

14

Craig can you give some detail of the 5 please, i.e locations and dates. I'm aware of the Blackheath battle, and the one near Crediton where a supermarket has been built, but am a bit sketchy about the others. Is there any written material on the subject? Cheers in advance!

9:00 am
November 30, 2009


marhak

Member

posts 6957

15

I've put together a 56 page screed on 1549 for a projected book on aspects of Cornish history, Carbilly.  Blackheath was the 1497 battle site, but the five battles of 1549 were:

Fenny Bridges 28/7; Woodbury Common 4/8; Clyst St Mary 5/8; Clyst Heath 6/8 (this following the mass-murder of 900 prisoners at the orders of Lords Russell and Grey); Sampford Courtney 17/8.

There is plenty of literature:  Philip Caraman's 'The Western Rising' is a good start; and Pol Hodge produced a small book called 'Cornwall's Secret War" which is worth getting hold of.  Avoid A.L. Rowse – he did his best to play the whole thing down, and to minimise the casualty rate which was reported by contemporary observers (mostly from the English side – so they'd hardly be biased towards the Cornish cause).

Many writers on the subject minimise the cause of the war (which it was) to the introduction of an English language prayer book and an English state religion.  There was rather more to it than that.  In 1508, Henry VII had reinstated Cornwall's own parliament with additional powers – these including the right of veto over any Act or Statute made at Westminster.  The English/English language state religion was enforced by the Act of Uniformity in January 1549 with immediate effect.  The Cornish veto was ignored.  I believe that the Articles of Demand issued by the Cornish leaders represented that veto but what it boiled down to was the fact that London took just 41 years to trample all over the rights granted to Cornwall by Royal Charter (and, of course, they've done so ever since).  That, I think, was what really lit the fuse.


5:14 pm
November 30, 2009


Carbilly

C24 Regular

posts 45

16

Cheers yew!, Proper! Best get on with that book. Has Payton nothing to say on the 1549 battles?

6:09 pm
November 30, 2009


marhak

Member

posts 6957

17

Doing my best, Carbilly.  Just completed the section on the 1595 Spanish raid on Mount's Bay, no longer having to rely on Carew's third-hand account, but also from an eye witness – the Spanish commander himself whose log, in the form of a report to his king, turned up in the late 70s.  This gives the names of all four ships, himself and his senior officers, as well as the English catholic agent he had aboard.  It also has some fascinating snippets like when they burned Paul Church.  Carlos de Amezola wrote that it contained the 'effigy of a horse, richly wrought and worshipped as an idol by the people'.  'Obby Oss?  Pedn Glaz?

It also mentions the 'fort' at Penzance, evidently a battery to protect the harbour, which had one piece of ordnance, which was captured by the Spaniards.  This predated the 18th century battery (much of which remains although threatened by the current harbour proposals).

8:24 pm
December 1, 2009


sha'zron

C24 Regular

posts 624

18

marhak: In 1508, Henry VII had reinstated Cornwall's own parliament with additional powers – these including the right of veto over any Act or Statute made at Westminster.


So was the pardon given for what had happened in 1497 then? did the English get it wrong?




11:43 am
December 4, 2009


sha'zron

C24 Regular

posts 624

19

From the CSP site…


1305 Stannary Charter. Recognised right of Stannaries to its own independent legal system. Customary Rights.


(See 1198 Laws and Customs of the Stannaries, Thomas Pearce 1725.)


1337-1338 Duchy Charters. Creation of Duchy of Cornwall – "The Stannaries" included as a pre-existing Cornish organisation. Government of Cornwall continued much as before with Stannary Court and Stannary Parliament or convocation meeting when necessary.


There would have also been a dual role of the Cornish Convocation dealing with the administration of Cornwall not simply restricted to the management of Tin Mining industry e.g. Duchy Charter refers to "Court of Stannary and Mines" Indicative of dual function.


1485/1497


There is a state emergency centring on Duchy of Cornwall as a Plantagenet institution could not survive past 1485 into the Tudor era.


Tudor Henry VII possibly unconstitutionally makes his son, Arthur, Duke of Cornwall, contrary to provisions of Duchy Plantagenet Charter.


Cornish people regarded the Tudor Arthur as a usurper or fraud and rebelled against all ordinances proclamations and taxes imposed by the Dukes.


Additionally Cornish were subject to heavy taxation by Henry VII to fund war with Scottish Celts which they resented and was contrary to the spirit of 1305 Charter.


For a period of 11 years the Cornish stopped production of tin. This caused a large loss of Revenue and forced the King to enter into discussions with Cornish.


1508


This was main reason for the agreement that became the 1508 Charter.


This reaffirmed previous rights, pardons people involved in previous activities. Fresh start for Cornwall. Reaffirmed the Customary right to a Cornish parliament.


Also included provision that any Acts of Parliament had to be approved by the Stannary Parliament.


Tin production recommences.

Extracts from the British Mining World Heritage Document in support of Cornish National Minority Culture.


WHD – The Stannary system included dedicated courts and a convocation (later a parliament). A main seat of the administration was the elaborate Duchy Palace complex established in the 1290’s in Lostwithiel. Some parts of the Medieval building survive within the planned medieval town. (WHD p.125).


WHD – In 1497 the Cornish revolted against new Stannary laws imposed by Prince Arthur, Duke of Cornwall. As a result the Charters were confiscated, to be renewed by the Charter of Pardon issued in 1508 in return for a payment of £1,000.00. This included the right, through the Stannary Parliament, to veto any statute or proclamation which was ‘to the prejudice’ of the tinners. (WHD p.125