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9:52 am
July 9, 2008
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Coady
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Well, that doesn't REALLY answer my hypothetical question, does it?
And how long will "set aside" continue with worldwide food shortages?
West Penwith moors stretch from the back of St Ives right down to Chapel Carn Brea. The areas to be grazed are a small proportion, and all rights of way are to be retained.
For the farmers involved, a commitment to maintaining at least ten years of grazing involves extra work, time and expense…hardly "Easy Money"! (I take it that its a while since you did any farming?)
I was born, schooled, worked and still live in West Penwith and visit and enjoy the moors.
I believe this scheme is a good idea, and worth trying.
If it doesn't work, or turns out to be a rubbish idea, it will be dropped in a comparatively short time.
Graham.
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We live in interesting times
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2:24 pm
July 9, 2008
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marhak
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Graham, I have studied the Penwith Moors intensively for 50 years and love them every bit as much as you do. We had world-wide food shortages back in the days when we had food mountains. Not a lot has changed in that respect.
This project will enclose areas of land that have NEVER been fenced in, not over a period of millenia. It will evict the established wild life and replace it with a new set, all in accordance with external ideas.
It will erode people's rights to roam. Cows protecting calfs can be very aggressive and will mean that dog-owners will not be able to let their dogs run free, as they can now. Walkers with inquisitive children will also be endangered and, remember, what will be on Carn Kenidjack will be longhorns. Potentially lethal in those circumstances, regardless of how docile that breed is otherwise. Pony and trap drivers (and there are plenty of them) will not be able to negotiate the bridle gates(too narrow, and to widen them will make them too heavy, especially in the wind, for one person to manage safely). Their rights will be blown away, and for what?
What is this project for? Why the wish to radically change this unique landscape? Only a handful of greedy farmers will benefit financially.
Cattle damage threatens the archaeology and public liability will be an increased load on the landowners.
Remember who the unholy trio behind this project are: National Trust, Natural "England", "English" Heritage. Do the track records of these three (who, let me remind you, do NOT employ Cornish people to anything more than the most menial positions)fill you with confidence? This is not an ecology project. It is about the control, inclosure and take over of land. Make no mistake about that.
The areas nominated, Graham, include almost every open stretch of the Penwith Moors, not just a bit of them. 47 areas are on the Heath Project list. As mentioned above, rights to roam will be seriously eroded.
edited by: marhak, Jul 09, 2008 – 01:30 PM
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5:55 pm
July 9, 2008
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Fulup le Breton
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You need to band together with other similar local environmental groups like Carlyon Bay Watch: http://www.carlyonbaywatch.com/
This could be done through groups like CoSERG, Groundswell or Cornwall Friends of the Earth perhaps.
What is the Cornish Green Party up to these days?
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8:02 pm
July 9, 2008
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marhak
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Yes, thanks, Fulub. In fact we have done so with our own group. see http://www.savepenwithmoors.com
I note that Penwith District Council and Cornwall Council have blindly agreed to act as partners to the triad of evil in this ill-intentioned scheme. However, they both have people on the inside working against the project, which isn't a bad start.
edited by: marhak, Jul 09, 2008 – 07:02 PM
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9:59 pm
July 9, 2008
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Coady
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Marhak, an eloquent and well mannered post. I am driven to respect your views and look again at both sides of the issue.
GC.
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We live in interesting times
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11:07 pm
July 9, 2008
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bus-driver
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Land that has never been enclosed is a rare thing in Britain these days, And, unlike other areas, it has 1000's of years of living heritage as an open space in the local community and should be treated with the respect that sort of heritage deserves.
It is abusive to create a scenario where a reintroduced beast has priority, and land claim, over locals who ancestors are such an important part of the heritage, custom and tradition of the area.
Who's Cornwall is it?
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11:40 am
July 10, 2008
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marhak
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Thanks for that, Graham. Being ill-mannered would not win our cause any friends at all (and I don't like being ill-mannered in any case).
It's worth pointing out tha, if local farmers thought there was any benefit to be gained from putting cattle out to graze on the moors, they'd have done so long ago. But the practice had been abandoned by the mid 19th century and never resurrected. The only reason they want to do it now is because they are having money (our money) waved in front of their faces.
Of course, practices have changed in that 150 years. Back then, cattle on the moors were constantly tended by herdsmen and fencing was not necessary. They were only up there for 3 months each summer, minimising erosion, whereas this scheme proposes 6 months a year for 10 years. That 6 months will include more wet periods that can only help to increase and concentrate erosion.
Anne Preston-Jones of the Historic Environment Service (the old Cornwall Archaeological Unit)is quoted on the HEATH Project's web-site as saying that the p[roposed grazing regime will be "of benefit to the archaeology". That beggars belief, especially when her own service recently spent a small fortune repairing cattle damage to the Trippet Stones on Bodmin Moor. Standing stones act as a magnet to cattle who, quite naturally, regard them as convenient rubbing stones. In no time flat, each stone is surrounded by a mud and water-filled crater which then undermines the stone, which falls over. She knows that just as well as I do, just as she knows that prehistoric field system remains can be very fragile indeed, having not a chance against cloven hooves. The archaeology you don't often see is just as important as the more visible monuments. (Her salary, by the way, is paid by "English" Heritage, and so she will be constrained to toe the party line).
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9:11 pm
August 3, 2008
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marhak
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I am thoroughly saddened and dismayed by the lack of response to this thread, which brings to your attention a serious and external threat to one of the major components of YOUR heritage – the Penwith Moors.
External bodies – the National Trust, Natural "England" and "English" Heritage – wish to change this unique and culturally vital area into something it has never been. And they will be using YOUR money to do it.
And you guys don't seem to give a damn.
Many of you profess to love Cornwall and everything that makes the land and its people what they are. But do you? You might love the language – that alone is not Kernow's heritage. You might love its feasts and festivals – they are not Kernow's heritage either. Not on their own.
The heritage of Cornwall is multi-facetted, and all of those facets need to be safeguarded, on an equal basis, if our culture is not to be destroyed (and you all know as well as I do that there is an external will that is determined to destroy it, and what is happening now is part of that programme. To see how important the Penwith Moors are to our culture can be gleaned by spending just half an hour reading Bottrell.
NONE of the people involved with this project are Cornish. Most weren't even within hundreds of miles of the place 5 years ago when they struggled out of university. Yet these people are proclaiming themselves to be the "experts". Just a few years ago, none of them were capable of finding their own arse without the use of both hands and a map, let alone locate Penwith.
Do you people really want them to succeed? Your lack of response suggests that you do. And, if that really is the case, then my work for Cornwall ceases now. 50 years of research on my shelves will never, ever, see the light of day – and there is one hell of a lot more there than ever got into my books (a lot of it might have been published long ago had it not been for "English" Heritage and Exeter University's Anglo-supremacist "historians" like Prof. Malcolm Todd). To hell with it. If you lot don'e give a damn for your own land, then smeone esle do the same work in the future and good luck to them. We'll see if Cornish people are any more prepared to value their efforts than they are prepared to acknowledge mine (certainly the Gorsedd despises me and what I do). Or Ian Cooke's invaluable efforts. And all those others who work their arses for Cornwall and get nothing but flak for it.
The Cornish language is not the culture of Cornwall. Not on its own. Nor are our feasts and festivals. Or Cornish wrestling. Or Chun Quoit.
Cornish culture is a collection of all these things. Lose one and you lose the bloody lot. If we lose the Peniwth Moors, then that will open the floodgates and we can all kiss goodbye to any realism in calling ourselves Cornish.
There are a handful of us out here trying to do something to stop this appalling scheme. 20 Cornishmen are striving to know the reason why.
Where the hell are the other 19,980?
How Cornish are you?
edited by: marhak, Aug 03, 2008 – 08:20 PM
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10:33 pm
August 3, 2008
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Shaz
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To see how important the Penwith Moors are to our culture can be gleaned by spending just half an hour reading Bottrell.
William Bottrell 1816–81 born St. Levan
On his return from Australia he lived the life of a recluse at Hawke’s Point Lelant. A friend of his later wrote: “Here he lived in a hovel and cultivated a little moorland, He had a black cat called ‘Spriggans’ plus a cow and pony. These animals would all follow him down the almost perpendicular cliff, over a goats path, to the spring which was their water supply and no accidents happened to either.” His friend went on to tell how Bottrell became a friend of the tinners who worked in near-by mines. They would do a days work underground then think nothing of spending a couple of hours helping Bottrell clear ground in order that he could create a garden. It was from these men that Bottrell learned more of the ancient tales of west Cornwall. As they sat by the fire in the cottage which he had made his home, one of the number would tell a tale whilst William drew a sketch of the man. Bottrell always acknowledged the debt he owed to these men, he said of them “they have intelligence, mother-wit and memories and I am able to garner from the ample harvest.”
Would this be him Marhark?
I see the group have been busy
http://www.menantolstudio.freeserve.co.uk/newpage8.htm
Save Penwith Moors here
We were up Bodmin the other week talking to the locals in St Breward, their post office was under threat of closure,they got a reprieve, everywhere and I mean everywhere,every house, the church, there were "Save our Post Office" Plaques, the bloke at the post office was giving them away, he had a stack outside. I see the Penwith Group have taken steps towards this, all I am saying is when we went to St Breward we definatley got the message.
Also this might be of some help. here
From the Save Penwith Moors website
2nd August This is to let you know that I had a letter this morning from Natural England Area Manager for Cornwall, Devon and Isles of Scilly to tell me that the Nine Maidens commoners “have now finished their informal consultation exercise during which they have received written responses from a wide range of stakeholders and they have made the decision to apply to the Secretary of State for permission to install stock proofing infrastructure on the common.”
Petition here
or snail mail you objection to..
Secretary of State for the Environment
The Rt Hon Hilary Benn MP
Nobel House
17 Smith Square
London SW1P 3JR
email: hilary1.benn@defra.gsi.gov.uk
edited by: Shaz, Aug 03, 2008 – 11:07 PM
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10:56 pm
August 3, 2008
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moonshine
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“I visited the Men an Tol on 08/07/08 ….. Too often the management of heritage sites and landscapes is little more than a form of sanitisation of environment so that it no longer challenges our spiritual senses …..
Part of a larger cultural 'sanitisation' program for Cornwall.
Its about time we had a Cornish Revolution.
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