Posts: 35
Posted:
12.Jun 2006 - 16:18
Anyone know anything?
I'd like to start up a new gallery in Cornwall at some point, I'm looking for young new artists to think about showing - websites welcome folks!
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Posted:
12.Jun 2006 - 16:32
Load of rubbish that the art world is too scared to describe for what it is: talentless, childish scribble.
When you look at the work of some of the genius artists to come out of the Newlyn and St Ives schools, how people can even describe someone who produces this junk with the same word is beyond me, and demeans proper, talented artists.
(I'm not against modern art, and I'm not against abstract art: I'm against crap art.)
Posts: 35
Posted:
12.Jun 2006 - 17:33
Here some others I've been exploring... found a contact for him, so I'll get on that.
http://www.vitreous.biz/gallery/solo/solo_swiftie.php
http://winterdrawings.com/
FlammNew, can you explain to me what you think "crap art" is please?
Not a dig, just interested in your thoughts.
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Posted:
12.Jun 2006 - 18:12
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Posted:
12.Jun 2006 - 18:37
I plan to open a gallery... selling is not an issue... just showcasing new, interesting, thought provoking art.
People in St Ives have been painting money for too long.
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Posted:
12.Jun 2006 - 18:57
Is swiftie thought provoking? Yeah, I thought about it, he's crap.
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Posted:
12.Jun 2006 - 19:12
Your mind is closed.
"crap" is not a very good word - I don't think it explains very much to anyone, it just lets people know what kind of person you are, not what the art work is like.
What art gets your seal of approval then? Do you even know any artists? Do you even like art?
Maybe thats the problem?
Please explain, this is all good research for me.
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Posted:
12.Jun 2006 - 19:23
That's one of the funniest things I've been asked on here.
Let's turn the question around - why do you think Swiftie is deserving of the tile 'Artist'? Why isn't he crap?
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Posted:
12.Jun 2006 - 19:30
Try harder.
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Posted:
12.Jun 2006 - 19:31
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Posted:
12.Jun 2006 - 19:46
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Posted:
12.Jun 2006 - 21:57
I thought you said that you'd already followed the link to Swiftie's creations?
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Posted:
12.Jun 2006 - 23:43
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Posted:
13.Jun 2006 - 00:06
I'm not sure about his stuff yet, like I said, I've only heard people talking about it... some good comment, some bad... I thought I'd find out for myself.
From what I've seen online It looks like he is clearly into what he is doing... and it makes me want to know more about what it is he is trying to say... or not say...
I like a lot of artists, some I hate, but that why I like them, if you get me... art should get under the skin and force a mirror up against your own life...
Flamm - I've read that quote elsewhere on this forum, anything new?
Cledry, sorry to ask you so many questions - it's just that you sound like you have an opinion but are willing to go further that 'it's crap'. I'm just wondering why, that's all.
Also, just because there are many galleries in Cornwall doesn't mean another can't be opened. It feels like my idea is being put down because.... well, I don't know why, what difference would it make to you?... I doubt you'd come a see the work anyway, right?
Here's another artist I'm into right now.
Another one to slate and misunderstand I guess.
http://www.rupertwhite.co.uk/
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Posted:
13.Jun 2006 - 01:03
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Posted:
13.Jun 2006 - 01:58
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Posted:
13.Jun 2006 - 08:38
Diane - couldn't agree more
Ton - you're making an awful lot of assumptions about me - how do you know I'm not an artist? You haven't told us what your gallery idea is, so how can we put it down. It seems you're suggesting opening (yet another) gallery but yours will differ in that you won't be selling, just showcasing? How will you pay the bills?
I can give you a list of the artists I like, local, national, international, livng , dead (hell, some of them are even conceptual artists
)but I don't think there's the bandwith to support it. Like many people who have been sucked in by these con men who call themselves 'artists' you sneer and smirk at anyone who doesn't apply any value to their childish scrawlings dressed up as meaningful work. Of course us philistines can't possibly understand the depth and worth of the statement the artist is trying to convey. Have you ever considered that Duchamp was taking the piss out of sheeple like you?And I'd be very likely to visit your new gallery - once
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Posted:
13.Jun 2006 - 08:42
Your point?
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Posted:
13.Jun 2006 - 09:21
One of the things about creating good art, the same as with running fast or being an expert particle physicist, is that it's a talent that not everyone has. Anyone who produces art that any other talentless wannabe could produce, is not an artist. Anyone who can produce art that stands out from the crowd and is of a standard that only other good artists could produce, is an artist. Neither Swiftie nor White produce anything that any other artistically-challenged member of the population couldn't have produced, therefore it's nothing special and shouldn't be lauded as something wonderful.
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Posted:
13.Jun 2006 - 09:25
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Posted:
13.Jun 2006 - 10:20
I think I'm going to scrape up the next roadkill I find, put it in a tank of minestrone and call it "Square Guild Banana" and see if the Tate will exhibit it. It'll only cost £10K for anyone who's interested.
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Posted:
13.Jun 2006 - 11:23
Your comments are so basic and common; you probably read the daily mail too.
Cledry – you are an artist? Doubtful – I’ve been reading your 800+ postings on here. It seems pretty obvious who you are and what you think. However, I’d like to see some of your work, do you have anything to show?
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Posted:
13.Jun 2006 - 11:44
Cledry - Did you do the the Royal College as well?
ok, you have convinced me, Cornwall doesn't need (yet another) gallery... I'll not bother trying then, I'll work in Tesco's, can you put a good word in for me?
Another dream smashed by the bitter police.
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Posted:
13.Jun 2006 - 11:45
Let's hear from you why swiftie and white are 'artists' then. Where is the validity ion their work? What is it they're trying to 'message' to us
Could it be that he's just another cog in the Banksy rip off machine? BTW - why did you waste your time reading my posts? None of them will tell you either what I feel about art or what my involvement is. And you still haven't told us about your new gallery.
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Posted:
13.Jun 2006 - 11:50
If you're so easily put off perhaps it wasn't the project for you anyway.
I read his biog as well and was aware that he went ot the RC. I don't have an art degree, don't want one, fine art ain't my thang. Having a degree from the royal college doesn't mean someone is talented. He may well be the most talented artist in the world but the work he is producing at the moment is lame, hyped up, cheap garbage. I suppose every generation thinks what they're doing is new and exciting but in truth it's been done. It's all a bit 80's really.
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Posted:
13.Jun 2006 - 11:58
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Posted:
13.Jun 2006 - 12:14
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Posted:
13.Jun 2006 - 12:20
No idea what a wag is... and I never had a assumption you were not an artist, it seems you made the assumption.
Maybe you should read my post a little slower, take it in, then comment... check them over... ask yourself why you might to bully your opinions on others. Seems to be a running trait on this forum. work
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Posted:
13.Jun 2006 - 12:23
I was joking about being put off, I'm still going to do it... maybe we'll even meet there and you'll be less sarcastic in person, no forum to hide behind... what’s to say about the gallery other then I'm opening a gallery... the type of work I show will make it different from the others... of course work will be for sale, wally… if people want it they can have it, nothing forced though.
I'm guessing by 80's you are referring to Basquiat, Haring and the New Yorker’s of that time. Yes, I can see an influence there in his work – so what?
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Posted:
13.Jun 2006 - 12:32
I'm just as sarcastic in real life my hansome - maybe more so
I also like Banksy's work - he appears to have integrity, inteligence and something real to say.
And could I draw your attention to this statement?
And I wasn't alluding to any of those people with my comment about the 80's. What I meant was that any old bod who felt they had something to say whether they had the talent to back it up or no was encouraged to 'splurge' their innards onto paper/canvas/cowhide. It was a decade of ultimate self absorption and unfortunately some people are still clinging onto that. Fair do's but the pompous gits whose living has depended on pedestalisng these bratty teenagers of the 'art' world have ensured that they have retained too much credibility and the baby has been well and truly thrown out with the bath water. The whole thing smacks of a besotted parent showing everyone the insides of their babies shitty nappy for us all to coo over.
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Posted:
13.Jun 2006 - 12:38
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Posted:
13.Jun 2006 - 12:41
Let's discuss the wider issues
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Posted:
13.Jun 2006 - 12:44
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Posted:
13.Jun 2006 - 12:46
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Posted:
13.Jun 2006 - 13:00
ROTFL!
"So basic and common", what kind of talk is that? Did Daddy promise you a gallery of your very own now you've outgrown your pony, as you sat on the veranda sipping Pimms?
I'd love to hear you explain the logic that links someone's artistic opinion to their selection of newspaper.
On second thoughts, why don't you go away and play and leave the forum to the grown-ups.
Posts: 35
Posted:
13.Jun 2006 - 13:19
Like I said, Swiftie is new to me, I heard about him (or her) and was intrigued to know more… I’d like to see his stuff in a gallery to fully see how I feel about it. From what I’ve seen on-line so far I like how it makes me feel, and what it makes me think, personal… it’s also very funny. I guess it’s subjective, it’s what I get out of it that matters, it’s the same for everything… a film you hate is a film I love… it’s also important to ask yourself why an artist causes you to ask so many questions, that you are writing in this tread plus your questions about the artists could be taken as underhand interest in them – and that’s fine.
Some pieces I like more than others of course, that’s the way it is. I like White’s photo’s very much, they make me think about how odd nature is and how funny it can be, the work is full of humour… oddly, for artists so different I can see a lot of resemblances in their work. I’ve seen White’s work about, I enjoy the way it is involved and uninvolved at the same time.
I came on here looking for people to share their art with me, nothing has happened though, I’m thinking this is the wrong place to look, also, you (both) seem to be the most prolific posters on here, both with plenty to say – is there anyone else out there?
As for the ‘title’ of an artist, I don’t really see it that way, it’s not a job, it’s a way of living for these people, I know a lot of artists who don’t see themselves as having jobs, they stand outside that… but I do believe that artists play an important role in society, they force us to question the things in our life that we avoid, they are good for the soul. Why is it that a lot of people are talking about Swiftie in Cornwall right now? I’ve never heard of an artist living in Cornwall that gets such diverse opinions from entirely opposed ends of the spectrum. Is an artist that is getting people to debate and discuss an artist who is doing his job correctly?
How you define ‘talent’?
I’d never say an artist was ‘crap’; it’s a meaningless remark to make, when talking about why you don’t like a certain artists work you should probably talk about yourself foremost
Posts: 35
Posted:
13.Jun 2006 - 13:31
On second thoughts, why don't you go away and play and leave the forum to the grown-ups.
"artistic opinion"? when did that happen?, nothing but cheap one-liners so far (well, everyone is laughing)... if anyone's being childish here it's you.
My guess at your reading material comes form the fact that your commets come straight out of it, word for word.
Why not try and form an opinion for all one your own. Talking of my Dad, you sound just like him,
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Posted:
13.Jun 2006 - 13:39
He's a love him or hate him artist. Alfred Wallis conjoured up the same conversation in people. Swiftie is neither new or exciting IMO. Btw - the fact that I'm posting such a lot on this thread bears no relation to the 'inspirational' qualities of swifties' work - I'm bored and it's fun to have someone to debate with between spurts of work.
You have demanded in no uncerain terms that me and others put forward our opinions on these what would you call them then if not artists? yet, when it comes to you putting forward your own opinion suddenly it doesn't matter.
I'm quite happy to label things as crap - in the literal sense of course - it's succinct and everyone knows where they are
I could of course wax lyrical about the juxtaposition of the pieces as art against the ambiguity of their childish and seemingly clumsy qualities leading the viewer to assume that the maker has no artistic integrity but I prefer 'crap'. We'll have none of that pseudo nonsense here me laddo
Posts: 1347
Posted:
13.Jun 2006 - 13:49
You knew him then?
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Posted:
13.Jun 2006 - 14:00
No, it doesn't matter what I think, or feel... I'm not here to convert anyone, that's your job....
Work? - Admin hell?
Life is 'crap' eh?
The work of children is the purest art form, don't you put your own children's artwork on the fridge?
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Posted:
13.Jun 2006 - 14:06
Well that shows how little you know, and how your own prejudices about Daily Mail readers is clouding your judgement. Not that it's any of your business, but I do not and have never read the Daily Mail, so it's all my own opinion. Got a snappy comeback about that?
Typical arty bull****. How often have I heard nonentity would-be artists claim that "you can't call art 'crap' because you just haven't understood it", well what utter drivel that is. Art like everything else in life has levels of good and bad, and strangely it's usually the crap artists who try to make out that no art is crap. Wonder why that is? Failing to hold down any other kind of job is not reason enough to try your hand at art - a degree of talent is required too.
No, it's the most childish art form. Well, apart from Swiftie's daubings, because he's an adult and should know better than to try to pass it off as "art".
And if saying that this sort of art is rubbish sounds like your Dad, then I'd like to shake his hand.
Posts: 35
Posted:
13.Jun 2006 - 14:10
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Posted:
13.Jun 2006 - 14:14
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Posted:
13.Jun 2006 - 14:17
In the Pluse? :?
Admin? I thought you said you knew everything about me from reading my 800+ posts. Obviously not. You're a bit judgemental arent you Ton hun? Daily Mail readers, admin workers? Can they not have valid views on art? Can they not be artists themselves?
Childrens art may well be the purest form but usually when done by children! My kids artwork is ace but I wouldn't be hanging it on the walls of a gallery and expecting people to pay quids for it. Nor do I ask them what political, philosophical or abstract point is they're trying to make with it.
btw - here's a definition of talent:
Hmm - still can't apply that to swiftie I'm afraid
Ton, you're very quick to judge our political views, our careers, how about you let us know what it is you do because you do seem to be suggesting that you're more informed and experienced than either of us. I'm not trying to convert anyone - you like that drivel, fine but don't expect us to cow tow to you and your sneering assumption that we somehow don't understand it for whatever reason you can make up.
Posts: 35
Posted:
13.Jun 2006 - 14:22
Of course you can have an opinion... never said you couldn't.
Every child is an artist. The problem is how to remain an artist once
he grows up.
Pablo Ruiz y Picasso
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Posted:
13.Jun 2006 - 14:25
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Posted:
13.Jun 2006 - 14:29
I don't think I've judged anyone here - I've told you what I do, you must have missed it.
Do you think I'm more informed and experienced?
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Posted:
13.Jun 2006 - 14:34
If I spit, they will take my spit and frame it as great art.
Also from Picasso:
The people who make art their business are mostly imposters.
Posts: 35
Posted:
13.Jun 2006 - 14:38
Thankfully for me, it's my day off - now I'm going out.
Goodbye
Posts: 1347
Posted:
13.Jun 2006 - 14:42
I don't have a 'job' Ton - if that post was aimed at me it was way off the mark. Reading back through the thread it looks like you might be in PR. Maybe we could talk business - lets' do croust.
Do you think we upset him Flamm?
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Posted:
13.Jun 2006 - 14:55
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Posted:
13.Jun 2006 - 15:00
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Posted:
14.Jun 2006 - 10:50
*REMOVED*
I invite everyone to look at this blog and see if it’s in keeping with the comments made on this thread.
You might be right Cledry, we don’t need anymore galleries in Cornwall, what we really need is some more hippy craft shops.
To tell the truth, I was very surprised at your blog Cledry – from looking at the lifestyle you live I’d imagine you to be a forward looking, optimistic lady who had lived a little, enough to know that the younger generation needs support in what they do (especially in Cornwall) but you seem rather sad. Our children should be encouraged to be free, free to decide that an alternative way of making a living is a valid thing. You and your partner in crime on here seem to making enjoy being obvious and negative about anything new, different, or slightly interesting. I read the Stranger magazine thread also and was surprised at the lack of support there as well. Such pessimistic and cynical attitudes are not the spice that Cornwall needs; in fact no one needs them… I’m not asking anyone to be overtly ‘nice’ on here just for the sake of it – that’s not my point, my point it that this thread is an embarrassment to the older generation. You and Flamm have chosen, unwittingly, to represent your generation (I imagine Flamm to be a similar age, please correct me if I’m wrong). I wouldn’t mind so much but your arguments about the artists seem to lack one basic ingredient - intelligence.
I suggest to you both (and I’d love to know more about you Flam, don’t worry – I’m looking!) that before make a commitment to deciding to dump on new Cornish artists in the flippant manner you have been and take a look at your own lives first, what have are your achievements, have you found an inner peace? Are you free? Who’s lives have you changed and touched in a positive way with your work? You don’t need to answer the questions on here… please don’t, I’m not that interested… ask it in the bath, with a Mars Bar – you may well cry at the answers you come up with.
I have the utmost respect the new artist, actors and filmmakers of Kernow, and of this country, and I have faith in them. I doubt it would have mattered what artist we decided to talk about on here, it would have gone the same way.
Do you and Flamm know each other perhaps? Is Falmm your husband? – You seem to come as a double act of bulling, unkind, pretenders.
Imagine your ‘perfect’ son was Swiftie – would the work be ‘crap’ then? Probably not, right?
It’s too easy to be negative – it would have been fun to debate the pros and cons of art and it’s affects with you in an intelligent engaging way, but, alas, it was not to be – shame. I’m well aware that people have been debating art for a long, long time and very small progress will be made on a Cornish forum, but here we are.
I feel sad to think that there are people like you living in Cornwall. I will continue to support local artists and learn from them just as much as I’ll avoid craft fairs; rainbow woolly hat stalls where I might bump into you and your depressing energy cloud. However, I'm sure you'll meet the discussed artists at some point and kiss ass in the usual way people like you do.
Now’s the time to save face – repent for every unconstructive word you have submitted to this forum and we, the people, will forgive you.
And you called me a sheep!
BAAAAAAAAA (hold still)
Posts: 1347
Posted:
14.Jun 2006 - 11:24
And Ton? Get over yourself love
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Posted:
14.Jun 2006 - 11:25
I don't need permission...
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Posted:
14.Jun 2006 - 11:26
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Posted:
14.Jun 2006 - 11:29
Sorry, it's on the net - the public can find it - so what's the problem?
Wish you never started this now don't you?
Let admin decide....
Posts: 1347
Posted:
14.Jun 2006 - 11:47
The objection I have is if I wanted that blog publicised on here I'd have posted the link myself. As I'm local to this site and the blog has pictures of my kids on then I haven't (for their safety) posted the link on here. If poeple find my blog on the net randomly then they can't link it to me personally iyswim.I don't care who sees my work or anything else. If you're happy to compromise my kids wellbeing then fine - leave it posted. However, I think most people will see that what you've done is out of order.It's a strangely familiar posting style I ahve to say. Someone starts off having a debate, can't handle being disagreed with and up's the stakes by posting personal info? Curiouser and curiouser
Just off to check the tracking stats on the blog.
Posts: 35
Posted:
14.Jun 2006 - 11:53
I doubt the 'axe murderer' hiding in the bushes will be after your kids.... only YOU!!!
Sleep with one eye open...
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Posted:
14.Jun 2006 - 11:58
I own an art gallery in Truro and in March this year I had the pleasure of hosting Swiftie's very first one-man exhibition in Cornwall. I thought I would post as you may be interested to hear a different perspective on this discussion however I am not going to disagree with or challenge your beliefs in any way. The reason is that art is impossible to define; no amount of quotes from dead artists and dictionaries will ever result in one single satisfactory answer to the question, "What Is Art?"
So instead I will tell you how Swiftie's exhibition affected people and I will start with myself. I first saw Swiftie's work in a mixed exhibition in my gallery called New (ad)VENTURE and a particular piece called D.I.E caught my attention. It was unlike anything I had exhibited before and I was certainly a little apprehensive about showing it, I honestly had no idea if I even liked it or not. However during the course of the exhibition I had many discussions with visitors about this particular piece and the gallery even received a written complaint about us showing it, which was of course wonderful. The more I looked at this painting the more I felt that Swiftie was sharing his emotions and experiences with me and despite having a passion for art I would say this was the first time I had seriously thought carefully about one particular painting. My views changed of his work immeasurably during that four-week period to the point where I fell in love with D.I.E and bought the painting. It now hangs in the gallery's collection with no small measure of pride.
The affect Swiftie's work had on me was shared by more or less every visitor to Swiftie's subsequent solo exhibition with us this year. We had more visitors to that show than we had ever had before and they came with mixed views. There were many admirers and followers of his work who attended but interestingly there was a lot of interest from people who didn't like it at all. Normally when someone doesn't like an artists work they avoid the show, but in this case they couldn't stay away.
This led to many conversations about his work; trying to discover hidden meaning and explain the narrative was something everyone would make an attempt at. One notable conversation with a frequent visitor continued for about three weeks! I have never talked more about a collection of paintings as I did during the course of Swiftie's show and some of the most enjoyable of those was with those who really didn't like his work at all. However many of the people who didn't think a great deal of his work had a similar experience to the one I had, a slightly altered view.
So after this rambling post what point am I trying to make? Well I would just ask anyone who doesn't rate his work or thinks it's not art or bad art to just spend a little time in it's company. I don't mean look at it on websites, seek him out. Find an exhibition of his work and take your friends along. Talk about it, slate it and berate it if you must, but allow yourself to have a meaningful conversation about it.
I'm not saying this will make you fall in love with it and consider it a work of genius, but I do believe if you go to see Swiftie's work with an open mind (or frankly even with a closed one) you will leave with at the very least a slightly altered view.
Thanks for taking the time to read this.
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Posted:
14.Jun 2006 - 12:02
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Posted:
14.Jun 2006 - 12:07
I'm a little surprised at the turn this discussion took; I would've thought it a more neutral subject than most. After all, if one doesn't like this Swiftie character's stuff, best not look at it eh. So long as the projected gallery has a reasonable turnover of exhibits, there'll be something fresh along in a minute. And there should be room for the more difficult stuff along with every John Miller- wannabe.
And for the record, yes I'm Cornish, yes I live here and no I haven't fixed the back window yet.
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Posted:
14.Jun 2006 - 12:10
Cledry - I'm feelin' bad now, you pushed me to make you look silly...
Make friends?
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Posted:
14.Jun 2006 - 12:19
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Posted:
14.Jun 2006 - 12:23
Perhaps instead of posting links to someone else's personal website you could post one personally identifying yourself, or aren't you that brave?
I have no intention of giving you any information about my age - a rather feeble attempt at fishing for information. And as for intelligence, you have no idea of the level of my academic qualifications - and again I'm not going to tell you.
Good luck, but take note that any attempt at online stalking will be passed on to the police. I respect the privacy of the other bona fide posters on this forum and I expect no less from them. By posting the link to Cledry's blog you've already shown your true colours and lack of respect for others.
:? What on earth are you on about?
That is clearly nonsense. I have respect for all true artists: Swiftie isn't one.
Once more, I'm not letting you know either way.
Pretenders in what way? Pretenders at seeing crap art for what it is, or pretenders at seeing crap art as good art?*shakes head*
Well, quite - if only you could have come up with some arguments in favour of Swiftie's art, we could have had such a discussion. Sadly you were unable to, so we couldn't have that debate you wanted.
I think that tells us all we need to know about you.
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Posted:
14.Jun 2006 - 12:24
I agree but we should be able to dislike stuff without being sneered at.
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Posted:
14.Jun 2006 - 12:25
Not friends then?
Oh well.
I remove the link for you anyway as a sign of goodwill.
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Posted:
14.Jun 2006 - 12:27
http://www.cledry.blogspot.com
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Posted:
14.Jun 2006 - 12:41
And young TonT, it might help your gallery too - you should be prepared to hang things you don't like, otherwise your gallery will be dull, a giant blog of pictures: and if you're prepared to do that, you have to be prepared for other people not to like things as well.
I think an indigenous arts scene is a bit out of reach just yet, given that we've a hard time agreeing on who should live here and what they should live in. Arguing about what hangs on the walls is a bit further down the road, but it makes a nice change.
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Posted:
14.Jun 2006 - 12:46
P.S Don't start me on Terry Frost
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Posted:
14.Jun 2006 - 13:00
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Posted:
14.Jun 2006 - 13:03
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Posted:
14.Jun 2006 - 13:04
Crazy, took me awhile to read everything.
Thought i'd post my one and only post. Truro libaray is too loud and hot and time is money!
I'm not really sure what going on here, it's all a bit odd, twisting and turning everywhere - some bad vibes.
I think some people should clam down a little though. It's not worth it, it's only paint after all.
Cledry. I like some of your stuff. I'm into stripes at the moment and like using them a lot. It looks like hard work what you do. I've always wanted to get into doing some textile pieces. One day maybe.
TonT. I look forward to hearing from you about the gallery. Another gallery can't hurt. especally if you want to show my stuff
No need to defend me though Sir... relax! I'm not bothered who likes or dislikes the work I do. In fact I kinda like people not liking it and calling it crap. My Mum does it all the time. When there's someone shaking their head at everything you do it keeps you true.Vitreous. Thanks for the words.
48Crash. I like your style.
Well. Back to it.
Love
S.
Posts: 1347
Posted:
14.Jun 2006 - 13:07
Anyway - glad to 'meet' you swiftie. Shame it's just the one post though - it would be good to hear what your work is actually about.
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Posted:
14.Jun 2006 - 13:09
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Posted:
14.Jun 2006 - 13:10
I get your point about grants and stuff but there are so many galleries in Kernow and so few shops where locals (and tourists I suppose) can buy 'normal' stuff like groceries, shoes, clothes for kids etc that it galls me to think of any more cropping up. Galleries instead of mobile phone shops, estate agents and pund shops is a bit of a 'rock and a hard place' scenario for me.
Posts: 221
Posted:
14.Jun 2006 - 13:33
But now we're back to the Great Cornish Whinge, and I din't mean to go there. About turn ...
From the four pictures on that link to Mr S's work posted somewhere up above, I thought the rainbow thing sucked but that I'd pay good money for 'D.I.E'. And I like the idea that you can have characters like him and Nick Williams ( http://www.artonomy.co.uk/nicholaswilliams/recentwork.htm ) working in the same county.
Is a 'good' painting just about skill, though? Isn't there something about just 'how much does this image strike me'?
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Posted:
14.Jun 2006 - 13:49
Not totally, of course not, but comparing Nick Williams' work to Swiftie's is like comparing a Mozart symphony with a toddler smashing randomly on a pull-along xylophone.
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Posted:
14.Jun 2006 - 14:07
I should add that my mother was a painter, and kept my brother and me in ill-fitting clothes thanks to painting miniature seascapes. She really didn't paint like Swifty one little bit - but she'd have been a big fan.
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14.Jun 2006 - 14:19
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14.Jun 2006 - 14:35
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14.Jun 2006 - 14:36
But, to venture dangerously close to the area I said I'd stay away from, developing a cultural identity is well on the way to developing a National one. And developing a cultural identity means having all the venues and outlets that allow contact and exchange with cultural activity. So a gallery that intended to show home-grown work would be of benefit to more than just the owner and the artists. Or so it seems to me.
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Posted:
14.Jun 2006 - 14:46
My grandfather painted as a hobby and used to do superb oil seascapes around St Ives. He would have hated Swiftie's stuff.
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14.Jun 2006 - 14:50
BTW - to relate back to one of your earlier questions one of my favourite artists is Frida Kahlo and some of her paintings might look like they're painted by a child but her life story makes the paintings powerful. Actually she's probably a bad example but do you see what I'm trying to say.
eta - someone on another forum has just referred to 2 of my pieces as 'works of art' - not sure how I feel about that after this conversation
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Posted:
14.Jun 2006 - 15:04
Good for yer Grandad: a damn fine hobby. And I dare say he would've hated Swiftie's work. My Grandfather would've given it pretty short treatment too, but he preferred his version of the Haywain that had a clock in it, so I wouldn't put too much into that.
Cledry, m'dear: I know that TonT rather leapt on a passing assumption as soon as the two of you didn't react well to his bringing said Swiftie up. And yes, his dismissal of your work and of craft fairs in general was a cheap shot - more worthy of me than him.
Perhaps some of the difficulty is that it's hard not to sound poncey when talking about art: it is, to quote someone called Adrian Belew, like 'whistling about chickens' - language isn't really up to it sometimes.
Frida Kahlo, eh? I was recently in Argentina (work thing, I travel as much as a lost DHL parcel) and they've one or two people who paint like that - perhaps it's a South American/Catholic thing, to be brought up amongst so much colour and plain speaking. You'd never get a Dutch painter working like that, would you ...
edit: 'works of art' - don't knock a good review!
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14.Jun 2006 - 15:12
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14.Jun 2006 - 15:29
I spent a long time at art college (funnily enough, I didn't fail my 'A' levels but I went anyway) and did all kinds of strange stuff - but I've never made a hat. Never too late, I suppose ...
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14.Jun 2006 - 15:38
Yeah man, know what I mean innit? Is it because I is Cornish?
The Lascaux cave paintings are superb...they are probably the pinnacle of talent and sophistication for the time. I dread to think what the Swifties of the time were producing...
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Posted:
14.Jun 2006 - 15:46
Certainly Lascaux must've been cutting-edge at the time (not to mention our maze carvings in Rocky Valley, of course) and things have moved on with techniques - but they're still very affecting as images, despite being done by stone-age hooligans busy tagging the cave, whilst wearing hoody bearskins. Bloody kids ...
There's something about the integrity of an effective picture, somethign about the intention that informs it, that overrides any technical questions. Rouseau, perhaps? I think his stuff's wonderful, but I'd have to concede that he couldn't draw for toffee.
edit: 'Is it because I is Cornish' really ought to be on a T shirt. On a S. Pirin's flag background. Class.
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14.Jun 2006 - 16:03
I'm sorry for the outburst this morning, couldn't help it... too late now though.
48Crash, you said you'd seen the three images on that page where it say's Swiftie's real name is daryl waller but did you go the the other site as well? winterdrawings.com there a bunch of stuff there also. I also found darylwaller.com... pretty sure it's the same person, looks like he can draw to me. I also liked the idea you spoke of with that gallery that did work shops for children, it would be good if the artists could give workshops, is this what happens?
Vitreous, you made some great comments on your post, I can't believe I missed his exhibition, I will indeed seek out the next one and join your mailing list asap.
Frida Kahlo is an amazing artist, this we can agree on. I saw her exhibition at the Tate Modern a while back, amazing at the small scale of the work and how it kept its power still.
Swiftie, I'll be in touch!!!
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Posted:
14.Jun 2006 - 16:12
I didn't go on to the further link, but will do. As far as I know, that gallery in Brittany just makes itself available for the community - getting the artists in would be great! Mrs C, my better half without a doubt, was quite inspired by the idea. Why not hold a series of workshops ending in an exhibition? Why shouldn't the kids, or the adults, or whoever it is, get to see their work on the gallery walls, if only for a night? Have a big open evening, for everyone to come and admire - become part of the community, and help them see galleries not as some fancy place with expensive stuff on the walls, 'not fer the likes of us', but somewhere that's a forum for ideas, for voices not always heard.
I'll come down off me soapbox now ... if you could just lend me a hand, I'm a bit wobbly from all that shouting ...
edit: went to said site. I'd argue that he draws worse than Rouseau - why can't he sharpen his pencils? - but I like the black horse a lot. It's more graphic design than fine art to me, all mouth and fashionable trousers. I suspect it won't age well. But hell, I used to think that Thunderbirds was realistic so I wouldn't listen to me.
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Posted:
14.Jun 2006 - 16:46
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14.Jun 2006 - 17:41
Each to their own and all but I still don't get it.
Re workshops for kids and the community - look no further than golowan who've been doing it for years. Until I got ill I spent many a fraught/enjoyable few weeks doing workshops with kids in schools. More large scale municipal exhibition space would be good but I can't see that happening in a hurry.
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14.Jun 2006 - 21:53
Call me a philistine, but modern art doesn’t do it for me and I won’t be talked into believing it should.
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14.Jun 2006 - 22:28
Have a pint on me.
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15.Jun 2006 - 08:23
- and fair enough. I think all any of us should aim for is open eyes; don't read the sign on the door that says 'modern art' and then assume you'll hate it all, just have a look first.
For me, there's plenty of modern stuff that looks like a waste of space to me. But then there's plenty of fairly old, quite old and very old stuff that also looks like a waste of space.
Just a thought, since I mentioned him, how do you feel about John Miller? He was local of sorts, and certianly realist and could draw (the more I think about Swiftie's drawing, the queasier I feel - some of the paintings I could see the virtues of, but there's nothing to be learned from drawing like that) and he's as modern as they come ...
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15.Jun 2006 - 09:17
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15.Jun 2006 - 10:17
Royal Academy rejects sculpture but loves plinth
http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/this_britain/article1018524.ece
Apparently the sculpture was shipped seperate from the base and the 'experts' decided the base was a work of art and put it on display. It might take the world of contemporary art a while to live that one down!
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15.Jun 2006 - 10:51
As for the plinth thing - the plinth does look like a sculpture; it's not like the bottom of a birdbath or something. And the hanging committee of the RA show go through hell, with stuff paraded before them at the rate of one every four seconds or something daft. But it's not good, is it.
Those famous bricks at the Tate - I knew someone at school who'd been taken there as a kid, and while his parents looked at the pictures he thought 'oh good, at least I've got some bricks to play with' and he made a little fort out of them. He said everyone got very excited when they saw what he'd done ...
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15.Jun 2006 - 10:59
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15.Jun 2006 - 11:03
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/southern_counties/5081744.stm
And why can't they just admit they've made a ***** up instead of going all arty farty and saying they think the piece has merit blah blah blah.
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15.Jun 2006 - 11:37
I do know something of the conditions in whcih Summer Show stuff gets judged, so I'm biased - they get to see things so briefly, so they hav to make a snap decision 'yes I think it's good' or 'no, not good enough'. They don't really want to tell everyone who's been accepted 'yes your picture's in, but we didn't really do more than glance at it'.
But sure, it's poncey nonsense. But so was Giotto at one point, so only time will tell.
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15.Jun 2006 - 12:20
Funny though innit?
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15.Jun 2006 - 12:42
Yeah, the head looks nicely done. I suppose it's just you've seen that kind of thing before, however nicely done, and they thought they'd got this sort of mortuary slab with a dead little wooden thing on it to judge ... yes, it's funny. Alas, very few people in this world have the guts to laugh at themselves when they've got it wrong. I was on a flight last month that managed, on landing, to leave the tarmac briefly and bump along the grass. The pilot got on the tannoy (and back on the tarmac) and said 'I do apologise for that landing ladies and gentlemen - but you've got to admit, I was close'. Much better response than trying to pretend it didn't happen or blaming a crosswind.
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15.Jun 2006 - 13:41
Yeah, a kiddy fiddler in a smock to boot. I've managed to distance myself from his personal life and still like his work. Unusual for me I have to say
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15.Jun 2006 - 14:54
As for rich up-country types descending upon the place and declaring themselves arty, I can do ne better than to refer the honorouable company to the following:
http://www.camelotcastle.com/
- and you think you've got problems on the south coast ...
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15.Jun 2006 - 15:40
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15.Jun 2006 - 16:13
My real fear is that by the time they get bored with their plaything and try to flog it, it'll be too far gone and it'll either get all hotel-chained up or turned into luxury holiday flats. Now they're proper 'gallery owners' who make a mess of things.
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16.Jun 2006 - 18:12
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16.Jun 2006 - 20:26
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16.Jun 2006 - 20:47
http://www.rupertwhite.co.uk/1993-1997.htm
http://www.rupertwhite.co.uk/2004.htm
apologies by the way if I've come in too late into the discussion....
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16.Jun 2006 - 22:34
I looked at your work the other day and I have to say it's not my kind of thing. I'm not usually a fan of 'installations'. For instance, can you tell me about Psilo? To me it looks like something my kids would make with some straws.
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16.Jun 2006 - 22:59
re my work - like Swifties its worth looking at in its totality. I try and make each thing different to the next. Something like 'Psilo' is made out of steel and its installed outdoors. Its about the same size as an adult man. Its title refers to Psilocybin or magic mushrooms and its form is similar to the kind of hallucination you get with mushrooms. It also contains references to St Ives artists and other artist like Sol Lewit and Brice Marden- so there are art-historical references (that admittedly are a bit esoteric and so maybe irrelevant). For me it is a thing that looks nice in the garden. Its hard angular quality offsets the softness of the leaves around it nicely.
'Still', on the same page, which is a coffin-like form in the shape of a crucifix, has got more obvious deep 'content'. When it was installed at the Newlyn Gallery it converted salt water into drinking water, and its membrane was held in place by a beautiful heart-shaped stone from Mounts Bay. So the piece is something to do with transubstantiation and spirituality. I find it quite scarey actually when I think about it too much because the meanings are so strong. Of course they may not be to someone else...
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16.Jun 2006 - 23:49
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17.Jun 2006 - 06:57
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17.Jun 2006 - 10:58
All power to you and you're obviously making a living doing what you love. Good luck
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17.Jun 2006 - 11:27
Well agree with you on many things cledry and flamnew, but not sure about this one. If I had to choose between a Newlyn School painting and one of Daryl's paintings I certainly wouldn't pick a Newlyn School piece of art, but might very well choose one from Daryl. I appreciate the particular technical talent of many Newlyn School artists but the paintings do nothing for me - it's all down to individual likes and dislikes. Sorry maties
(Having said that if I had the the power to give planning permission to either an art, pasty, surf gear shop, resturant or something useful to the local inhabitants the first four would stand no chance).
Just realised there was 5 or 6 pages between the initial postings on this subject and my reply and I missed out on all the interesting (Ughh?
) discussion between, but I'll leave my halfpenny's worth in anyway!!