Topic:	Deer on Exmoor
Countrysider Posts: 125 Posted: 24.Mar 2005 - 21:43	Antis are very keen on saying that deer could be shot by "Expert Marksmen" - and so they could - but they never answer the question of What expert marksmen? Who is going to recruit them? Who is going to pay them? Who is going to assess their expertise? Who is going to tell them which deer to shoot expertly? Who is going to check up on whether they are doing it right? How are they going to get access to all that private land? How are they going to be allowed to shoot deer that "belong" to particular people at particular times, but different people at different times? How are they going to ensure that an increase of shooting on open land is safe? etc etc etc? You see, the flaw in your case is that you pretend to yourself that the choice is between horrid hunters who kill deer horridly and painfully; and nice Expert Marksmen who will kill the deer expertly and cleanly. The real choice, however, is between : a group of people who might not kill the deer in the quickest possible way but know exactly what they are doing, why they are doing it and have proved over generations that they can carry out the job of maintaining a healthy herd effectively and with the agreement of the land owners and occupiers; and absolute chaos. Yes. absolute chaos. the antis don't even know what the alternative choice is, because they don't have the foggiest idea what is going to happen. They don't even know who is going to shoot the deer; where they are going to shoot them; if they are going to shoot them; or if they are marksmen or rank amateurs. They don't know whether the deer herd is going to improve, stay as it is or get wiped out because they haven't got a clue. The Hunting Bill could have established an Exmoor Deer Management Authority and answered all of these questions. But it didn't. Why? Because the people involved simply couldn't be bothered. Because they don't really care about the deer, they just want to stick one on the hunters. So the choice is between people who you know will maintain the herd and a bunch of hopeless bigots who are too negligent to do anything necessary to preserve it. Why on earth, if you are an animal lover, are you supporting the latter side?
Stonefly Posts: 694 Posted: 25.Mar 2005 - 08:04	Of course, Countrysider, you're a group of dedicated animal lovers - which is why you love ripping them to pieces. It's NEVER for kicks, is it?
irish_monk Posts: 50 Posted: 25.Mar 2005 - 08:13	YOU INHUMANE ANIMAL MURDERER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
fancyabrew online Posts: 1321 Posted: 26.Mar 2005 - 19:13	"irish_monk"YOUR INHUMANE ANIMAL MURDERER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! At least he has a grasp of grammar, and makes some valid points. Shooting isnâ€™t like in the films, it isnâ€™t easy, and Exmoor isnâ€™t an easy place to shoot. Bigots.
Joe Posts: 776 Posted: 26.Mar 2005 - 20:46	There are no wild deer in Cornwall. Why do you think that is?
heyl_john Posts: 21 Posted: 30.Mar 2005 - 09:18	"YOUR INHUMANE ANIMAL MURDERDER"? Quite apart from the inadequate use of the English language, it is quite obvious that 'IrishMonk' has no idea that deer culling is a practice that is essential to ensure that the population of deer present in any environment is controlled, to reducethe negative impact on farming and the environment. "Deer damage has long been a major concern to forestry (Gill, 1992a,b), and with recent expansions in deer ranges and abundances (Staines et al., 1998; section 0), there is increasing concern about damage to agricultural crops and pastures (Scotland: Mitchell et al., 1977; Callander & McKenzie, 1991; England and Wales: Putman & Moore, 1998; Packer et al., 1998; Staines et al., 1998). Furthermore, such concern now extends to natural tree regeneration and ground flora in semi-natural woodlands (Mitchell & Kirby, 1990; Cooke, 1994), with potential impacts on the diversity of birds, small mammals, and invertebrates (Stowe, 1987; Hill, 1985; Petley-Jones, 1995)." I suggest that 'IrishMonk' would perhaps benefit from a little light reading on the subject, before launching into a childish, uneducated, response as per above. http://www.huntinginquiry.gov.uk/mainsections/research/macdonald/macdonaldfinal.htm Best Regards Heyl John
48Crash Posts: 221 Posted: 5.Apr 2005 - 08:16	Perhaps all those people you were worried about (but have stopped mentioning for some reason) who were likely to lose their jobs from the Hunting Ban - they could retrain? Sounds like a perfect job for someone. Not very positive in outlook, are you.
hellocthulhu Posts: 32 Posted: 5.Apr 2005 - 08:53	Another possibility is to contact the MOD. Who are used to managing deer (smaller scale) on their own land, have shooting skills and unlike your arguments, have plenty of ammunition.
48Crash Posts: 221 Posted: 5.Apr 2005 - 10:39	He seems to have missed the point of his own argument: there is a choice, between killing animals out of necessity and doing it for fun.
xxxxxx Posts: 2305 Posted: 11.Apr 2005 - 09:44	Why don't the hunt just dye one of their dogs ginger and hunt that? It would give a far better chase, and would put up a better fight at the end of being run into the ground. Load of bloodshed as it gets ripped to shreds. The hunt supporters would be in seventh heaven...