Topic:	Marking irregular stress
Evertype Posts: 1157 Posted: 17.Jul 2007 - 18:55	I purchased a copy of Nance's 1934 dictionary today. Two things may be said about diacritics. First, he says: "The quantity mrks over vowels are not to be written. They are used solely to ensure correct pronunciation." Easier to ensure it when they are written, but, OK, we have to let this imprecision pass. More interesting: "The acute accent is used in cases of doubt, to show the syllable which is to be stressed in pronunciation." On page one of the dictionary: bashé, lêhé ('abate'); berhé, cotthé ('abbreviate'); adró dhe ('about'); üskyshé ('accelerate'). Interesting. KD also marks irregular stress with an acute accent. Is it a requirement that the SWF mark it? (None of the other forms of Cornish has ever marked it in regular orthography.) edited by: Evertype, Jul 17, 2007 - 06:57 PM
Nothlenn Posts: 221 Posted: 17.Jul 2007 - 21:11	Ytho, esosta ow leverel bos an dra da po drog - mar nyns yw hengovek y hevelep herwydh us y'n tekstow koth? Fatell yllyn ni bos sur yth o Mordon ewn ow korra an poeslev war an rann 'he' an verbow na, ha ni ow kows an dra? My a wovynn hemma yn sempel rag ow les.
marhak online Posts: 3217 Posted: 17.Jul 2007 - 21:43	"Kernewek" is a good example and was made up by Nance in the 1920s. Why is asnyone's guess, as there were several attested alternatives. KK didn't address this question and carried on using Nance's word. It has been said that Kernowak isn't attested but it is: William Gwavas used that spelling. Both Kernuak and Kernuack are attested. So is Cornowok (interesting final vowel value), and there are several more. Why persist with an invented word?
Evertype Posts: 1157 Posted: 17.Jul 2007 - 21:53	This thread is not about Nance, apart from observing that in his 1934 dictionary he did the same thing that KD is proposing now. What i want to know is this: Is it a requirement (of users of UC, RLC, KK, or UCR) that the SWF mark irregular stress?
marhak online Posts: 3217 Posted: 17.Jul 2007 - 22:03	I'm not so sure about requirement but it would certainly help in words like lowenhe and lehe.
Nothlenn Posts: 221 Posted: 17.Jul 2007 - 22:20	Evertype, did you not understand my Cornish question or are you ignoring my contribution? I said, 'Ytho, esosta ow leverel bos an dra da po drog - mar nyns yw hengovek y hevelep herwydh us y'n tekstow koth? Fatell yllyn ni bos sur yth o Mordon ewn ow korra an poeslev war an rann 'he' an verbow na, ha ni ow kows an dra? My a wovynn hemma yn sempel rag ow les.' Mar mynn'ta orthiv y dreylya, my a'n gwra. (If you want me to translate it, I will).
Evertype Posts: 1157 Posted: 17.Jul 2007 - 22:52	I understood it. I wish you would not try to prove your point by making your posts opaque to people who cannot read Cornish at all or who do not prefer your orthography. What you wrote did not respond to my question. All varieties of Revived Cornish teach that there are words which have irregular (non-penultimate) stress. I'm not asking to debate that. Is it a requirement (of users of UC, RLC, KK, or UCR) that the SWF mark irregular stress?
Evertype Posts: 1157 Posted: 17.Jul 2007 - 22:54	marhakI'm not so sure about requirement but it would certainly help in words like lowenhe and lehe. Actually, it's easy to teach that all words in -he are stressed on the -he. It's other words like amary where there's no guide given to the learner.
marhak online Posts: 3217 Posted: 17.Jul 2007 - 23:02	There's no guide to the use of <sh> in words like leshanow. Would this be the kind of word where a hyphen is desirable? Of course, this isn't addressing the irregular stress question, for which I apologise, but it is another dilemma for debate.
Evertype Posts: 1157 Posted: 17.Jul 2007 - 23:06	In KS we propose that compound words with [s] and [h] may be written with the hyphen, as les-hanow, but in non-compound words we suggest that the apostrophe is more appropriate, as in uskys'he (since uskys-he really doesn't make sense).
Nosdan Posts: 1151 Posted: 17.Jul 2007 - 23:12	Why not use just the apostrophe? les'hanow or le'he... could an apostraphe not indicate stress? although im not sure it would make very attractive writing? Mar vedhow avel gelvinek (as maazed as a curlew)
Evertype Posts: 1157 Posted: 17.Jul 2007 - 23:22	In KS, at least, the apostrophe is normally used as a sign of elision (leaving a vowel out), as in dha'gan, na'gan, re'gan, y'gan. If it were used to mark stress it would be confusing to learners. In uskys'he it does not mark stress, but the division s-h. If stress were marked with the acute accent as in KD or Nance 1934, it would be uskys'hé edited by: Evertype, Jul 17, 2007 - 11:28 PM
morvran Posts: 1293 Posted: 18.Jul 2007 - 02:18	Cases where <sh> means /s/ + /h/ are very rare and don't cause a problem in normal reading. Learners just need a note next to the vocabulary item and maybe a few extra hyphens to begin with. But if this really bugs you, the answer is simply to think up an unambiguous grapheme for /S/. The pragmatic choice would probably be <x> (c.f. Basque, Nahuatl etc) but I imagine you'd go for something 'authentic' (i.e. aping Middle English), like a good olde Chaucerian <sch>. Then you could write <skh> if you needed to spell /sk-h/ perhaps. And KD could use the same graphs but with the opposite meanings, just to show how independent they are. Words like `amari and mygh`tern would benefit from an accute accent in learners' materials, as there is no rule involved. In fact I would go so far as to recomment that all stresses be marked with accutes for the first few chapters of beginners' books, until they get the hang of the regular system. Of course this can only be done if the 'normal' spelling doesn't use diacritics, otherwise the reader and the typesetting system would need to be able to cope with stacked diacritics, which is probably not desirable, unless you're Vietnamese.
marhak online Posts: 3217 Posted: 18.Jul 2007 - 08:28	Morvran might have a point here. The difficulties arise during the learning process so maybe things like irregular stress can be marked in learning materials. Once used to the language, it just comes naturally. Various symbols can be used, from a diacritic to underlining to marking the stress by bold print. Perhaps do this for the first 2 (maybe 3) years courses, after which there will probably not be a need to show it. In English, stress is always problematic. No one knows for sure whether it is CONtroversy or conTRoVersy (you could say it's controversial), DECade has, with some, become deCADE (rotten last 10 years). But we manage.
ObscureAlternatives Posts: 76 Posted: 18.Jul 2007 - 09:10	evertypes right verbs with -he dont need marking. if a spelling system builds words from regular roots used in a reg. way like Kemyn then its more obvyous, if u know les & hanow then its obvyous leshanow isn't pron. "sh"
ObscureAlternatives Posts: 76 Posted: 18.Jul 2007 - 11:58	if we r gonna mark irreg stress with an accent y not mark stress on all 2+ syllable word's with an acute accent like in greek?
davidtreth Posts: 210 Posted: 18.Jul 2007 - 14:10	marhak In English, stress is always problematic. No one knows for sure whether it is CONtroversy or conTRoVersy (you could say it's controversial), DECade has, with some, become deCADE (rotten last 10 years). But we manage. We really need a new orthography for Inglish to make it easier for forriners to lern to speek it. Letz kool it Kommun Inturnashnull Inglish.
Nothlenn Posts: 221 Posted: 18.Jul 2007 - 21:35	Fatell wodhon ni na via ‘lowenhe’ leverys avel ‘lówenhe’ po ‘lowénhe’ yn le ‘lowenhé’? My a garsa gweles an prevyans, mar pleg. How do we know that ‘lowenhe’ would not be pronounced ‘lówenhe’ or ‘lowénhe’ rather than ‘lowenhé’? I would like to know the evidence, please. edited by: Nothlenn, Jul 18, 2007 - 09:35 PM
Nothlenn Posts: 221 Posted: 18.Jul 2007 - 22:05	My a dhegemmeras gorthyp pur sogh ha digommyttyes orth an govynn ma dhiworth Evertype rag neb skila ha'n govynn pur wyrgh dres eghenn. Nyns esen vy owth assaya bos konnyk. My a vynna godhvos mar pe hengovek, an maner ma a worra poeslev war an diwettha syllabenn, po amyttyans dhe Gernewek dasserghys. Heb mar, ny yll bos 'diacritics' hengovek omma, mes nyns esen vy ow leverel hemma. Ny vynnav ri dihares rag gul devnydh a Gernewek y'n neusenn ma po ken le vydh! I received a very blunt non-committal answer to this question from Evertype for some reason when it was a perfectly innocent question. I wasn't trying to be clever. I wanted to know if it were traditional, this way of putting stress on the last syllable or a concession to revived Cornish. Of course, diacritics can't be traditional here, but I wasn't saying this. I will not apologise for using Cornish in this thread or anywhere else! edited by: Nothlenn, Jul 18, 2007 - 10:08 PM
morvran Posts: 1293 Posted: 19.Jul 2007 - 00:19	NothlennFatell wodhon ni na via ‘lowenhe’ leverys avel ‘lówenhe’ po ‘lowénhe’ yn le ‘lowenhé’? My a garsa gweles an prevyans, mar pleg. Yn gwiryonedh geryow a'n par-ma a goedh yn-dann an rewl usyys, saw an syllabenn dhiwettha yw keweskyans hag a syns ynni an syllabenn boeslevys (an dhiwettha-marnas-onan) keffrys ha'n dhiwettha oll, an dhiw lemmyn teudhys warbarth yn-tien. Y'n kas arbennik-ma, an hanow-gwann lowen re beu ystynnys gans an furvyllik ('formative') -ha- ow kul ben verb spedyadow ('causative verb'). Yn yeth plen, lowen + ha- a re verb ha 'bos lowen' po 'gul lowen' hy styr. Ena lowen-ha + av >> lowen-'ha-av, h.y. lowen'hav; lowen-ha + e >> lowen-ha-e >> lowen'he etc. (Y hwelir an keth tra yn Kembrek, mwyn'hau etc.) An kas arall 'rewlek' y hevir yn geryow kepar ha 'kenedhel ~ ke'nedhlow. Dhe gynsa *'kenedhl o an ger-ma ha'n e diwettha a devas a-ji y'n bagas dhl rag esya leveryans. Kynth yw bogalenn leun yn Kernewek (hag a ry syllabenn y'gan bardhonieth -- ny hwer hemma nag yn Kembrek nag yn Bretonek) stag yw an poeslev kepar dell yw an ger hwath *kenedhl. edited by: morvran, Jul 19, 2007 - 12:21 AM Seventy Percent of "competent & frequent" Cornish users prefer to write KK! (MAGA/CLP Survey)
Eddie-C online Posts: 773 Posted: 19.Jul 2007 - 15:42	morvran . . . Of course this can only be done if the 'normal' spelling doesn't use diacritics, otherwise the reader and the typesetting system would need to be able to cope with stacked diacritics, which is probably not desirable, unless you're Vietnamese. Not so, actually. Think about the way stress is marked in, for instance the Oxford English Dictionaries (and others). They use (I'm not sure of the technical typographical name of the glyph) a straight non-curly single quote mark before the stressed syllable. Admittedly, the OED uses this in their IPA pronunciation for words, but I've seen it done with the headwords in other dicitonaries. In Cornish, this stress mark would give us something like this (assuming I've got the stresses correct!): margh -- 'marghak -- mar'ghogyon 'selsyk -- sel'sygen -- selsyg'ennow So there's no need to stack diacritics, as you concluded. This would work fine in dictionaries, grammar books and other didactic or learners' materials. As in English, however, it might not be acceptable in regular printing for more fluent readers. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - KS y'n Udn Form Screfys? -- Hep wow! Kernewek Hengovek? -- Sur, nyns us nahen!
Evertype Posts: 1157 Posted: 19.Jul 2007 - 20:20	NothlennI received a very blunt non-committal answer to this question from Evertype for some reason when it was a perfectly innocent question. I wasn't trying to be clever. I wanted to know if it were traditional, this way of putting stress on the last syllable or a concession to revived Cornish. Of course, diacritics can't be traditional here, but I wasn't saying this. I know what you were asking My question didn't have anything to do with why there is anomalous stress in Cornish (interesting as that topic may be). It was about whether people thought it was necessary to mark it in orthography.
Nothlenn Posts: 221 Posted: 19.Jul 2007 - 20:58	Meur ras dhis, Morvras, a'th worthyp pur heweres. Ny vynnav govynn travyth orth neb den na vynn gorthybi drefenn bos an govynn mes a'y boynt. Mar mynn ev orth tus i dhe ri aga breus yn kever 'diacritics', my a garsa leverel an tybyans dhe vos tybyans euthek dell woer pupden oll na vynn bos Kernewek gwrys moy gomplek es dell eus edhomm anodho. My a lever 'lowenhe' yn neb kas, ewn po kamm. Rag omdreyla y'n tremynn ma, res yw den dhe dhiskwedhes dhymm ow bos kamm herwydh rewlys an taves. Nevra ny wrug vy klywes orth an den na ow kewsel Kernewek na hwath. Marthys da yw y sowsnek, dhymmo vy, dhe'n liha - res yw dhymm avowa henna. Martesen Marhak a wra ow gweres vy ynwedh. Ev a vynn tus dhe wellhe aga Hernewek war an wiasva ma par dell vynnav vy. edited by: Nothlenn, Jul 20, 2007 - 12:18 AM
morvran Posts: 1293 Posted: 19.Jul 2007 - 22:44	Sur ov vy bos "lowenhe" ewn, well, mar sur dell yllir a-dro dhe Gernewek hengovek. Merkyys yndella y feu gans Nance (herwydh y gis) keffrys hag yn GLKK etc. Mars osta kamm y'n poynt-ma, ha'th Hernewek marthus da dhy'm brys-vy, henn yw prov martesen a hwans poesleva moy war boeslev a-barth dallethoryon, awos pur gales yw dastyski awosa. Dhe wir, nyns ov vy sertan pupprys yn kever geryow avel "amari" etc, le nag eus rewl kler.
marhak online Posts: 3217 Posted: 19.Jul 2007 - 22:53	I've said my piece about exclusion. Now you can see who practices it. I can read what you guys said, others taking part in this forum can't. Thanks for ignoring them.
Nothlenn Posts: 221 Posted: 20.Jul 2007 - 00:12	Hemm o ynter Morvras ha my ha nyns usi an mater styryes yn Kernewek ow tynnerghi tus le es an kows yethoniethek Evertype po Panini. Martesen yth igoras Evertype an neusenn ma mes nyns yw ev hy ferghennek. This was between Morvras and me and this issue expressed in Cornish is no less inclusive than Evertype or Panini's linguistic speak. Evertype may have opened this thread but he doesn't own it! edited by: Nothlenn, Jul 20, 2007 - 12:13 AM
Evertype Posts: 1157 Posted: 20.Jul 2007 - 00:18	You could have a thread called "The origin of irregular stress in Cornish". Or you could talk about it here. Nevertheless I opened this thread to get people's views about a possible requirement for Cornish orthography.
morvran Posts: 1293 Posted: 20.Jul 2007 - 02:14	marhakI've said my piece about exclusion. Now you can see who practices it. I can read what you guys said, others taking part in this forum can't. Thanks for ignoring them. I see your point, but people were posting in Cornish here (mostly KK at that) before I got involved. There are actually some quite serious and difficult questions here. Like "What's the point of having a language if you're not allowed to use it?" and "Isn't the whole point of speaking a minority language that you can talk amongst yourselves without outsiders butting in?" The difference between the "language barrier" and exclusion based on race or class or wealth etc. is that anyone can get past it if they really want to, it just stops people from casually walking in. Seventy Percent of "competent & frequent" Cornish users prefer to write KK! (MAGA/CLP Survey)
marhak online Posts: 3217 Posted: 20.Jul 2007 - 08:12	But this is an open forum. Your "outsiders" might well be those who want to learn Cornish but are not prepared to until the SWF has been agreed upon in order to avoid confusion. I don't count anyone on these threads as "outsiders" (with one clear exception).
Nosdan Posts: 1151 Posted: 20.Jul 2007 - 11:38	I dont agree Marhak, i like to see posts in Cornish, as a learner it shows me usual constructs not just the examples in a book. Sure it takes a while for me to work through whats been said but over all its helpful. And it might just spur people on to learn it if they see it used all the time! Mar vedhow avel gelvinek (as maazed as a curlew)
goky Posts: 1641 Posted: 20.Jul 2007 - 11:43	Nothing wrong in posting in Cornish,the only objections seem to come from the Kernowackys. who cannot read them, the rest of us can learn.With the help of my trusty little Kemmyn dictionary I can read them, and all this Kemmyn has not made me blind yet or go into convulsions. Blog Gokypyth yw 'Agan Tavas"?, Agan Tavas yw Eddie Climo. Agan Taves Nowyth
marhak online Posts: 3217 Posted: 21.Jul 2007 - 08:03	Pity.
Jtreworth Posts: 108 Posted: 21.Jul 2007 - 23:29	gokyNothing wrong in posting in Cornish,the only objections seem to come from the Kernowackys. who cannot read them, the rest of us can learn.With the help of my trusty little Kemmyn dictionary I can read them, and all this Kemmyn has not made me blind yet or go into convulsions. Ow bloudh vy wy try ugans ha pymp. Yth of vy den bohosek a'n puscas. Me a wrug desky Kernowek yn termyn pan en vy maw. Me a vue dhe'n mor gans ow har vy ha pymp den moy yn scath. Me a wrug scantlowr clowes un ger Sawsnek y'n scath rag seythen warbarth. Ny wrug avy bythqueth gweles lyver Kernowek. Me a wrug desky Kernowek ow mos dhe'n mor gans an dus coth. Nag ues moy avel pajer po pymp y'gan tre ny a yll clappya Kernowek lemmyn, pobel goth pajer ugans bloudh. An Kernowek yw oll ankevys gans an bobel yonk. Me vy vennaf cowsel Kemmynek po Kernowek Fug!
GoghiennVarow Posts: 166 Posted: 21.Jul 2007 - 23:57	QuoteAn Kernowek yw oll ankevys gans an bobel yonk. Nosdan orth an wiasva ma yw yowynk, ha nyns ov vy koth (yn kewar). edited by: GoghiennVarow, Jul 22, 2007 - 07:36 PM
goky Posts: 1641 Posted: 22.Jul 2007 - 00:32	Our BY seems to be the reincarnation of Wella Bodinar, as in Bluth ve ew pager igans ha pemp,Thera ve dean bodgack an puscas, etc etc. Blog Gokypyth yw 'Agan Tavas"?, Agan Tavas yw Eddie Climo. Agan Taves Nowyth
Evertype Posts: 1157 Posted: 22.Jul 2007 - 09:15	I take it, then, that there is no great need to mark irregular stress in a standard orthography Cornish.
Evertype Posts: 1157 Posted: 22.Jul 2007 - 20:20	I began this thread, and have enjoyed what serious discussion there has been. Several individuals seem intent on wasting everyone's time with irrelevancy, however, so I shall withdraw from this forum for now. UdnFormScrefys remains interested in discussion with people who are serious about the compromise orthography which we believe will indeed become the SWF. Please see kernowak.com where you can find the proposal which we forwarded to the Commission and information about the mailing list. edited by: Evertype, Jul 22, 2007 - 08:23 PM
Nosdan Posts: 1151 Posted: 23.Jul 2007 - 09:52	Quote An Kernowek yw oll ankevys gans an bobel yonk. Gwyr yw! It is being forgotten all over again. And its not the young peoples fault! I have many friends that know about my Cornish (cornish ones), not one of them is critical of it! Infact many would like to learn the language themselves and enjoy learning new ways to swear at english people! Cornish hasn't got such a bad image just so little accesability. Theres no usage, very few books and little music and few classes. The sooner people bury their hatchets and agree on the SWF, the better. Then we can get out there publicising THEIR language! Our bickering is still only doing damage to our cause... Mar vedhow avel gelvinek (as maazed as a curlew)
FlammNew Posts: 1814 Posted: 23.Jul 2007 - 10:22	Exactly. We need unity, and united promotion. We don't need any new forms, we need the minority to swallow their pride and go with the existing majority and support and promote Cornish. At the moment the only place the anti-Kemmynites want to bury their hatchets is in our backs. They don't seem to realise that the best way for them to influence Kemmyn is from the inside; being shouted at by people like Eddie-C who won't even look at Kemmyn for fear of upsetting himself is going to change nothing. Once the SWF has been chosen I assume/hope/pray that a body will be set up to oversee the future development of the SWF so that it is no longer in the hands of any of the existing 'leaders' (of ANY form), but in those of a pro-SWF group. dukkha-samudaya-nirodha-magga
goky Posts: 1641 Posted: 23.Jul 2007 - 10:45	It should be noted that the debate is really between Cornish speakers and those who cannot speak the language or know only a very basic "Janet and John" Cornish. The only people here who can actually argue a case in Cornish use Kemmyn, and are promptly told not to use Cornish by the reactionaries, even the great Marhak admitted he cannot argue a case in Cornish ,Everson cannot , Eddie C probably never got past short form of "bos" before giving up.Brian Young can impress us with his use of gourgyjyer and that is about it. The book that was published attacking Kemmyn publications was written in English.In fact I think the only reactionary who can argue a case in Cornish is probably NJW the rest are just his poodles, trying to boost their ego's or sell more books. Blog Gokypyth yw 'Agan Tavas"?, Agan Tavas yw Eddie Climo. Agan Taves Nowyth
Jtreworth Posts: 108 Posted: 23.Jul 2007 - 11:18	gokygourgyjyer Te yw gourgyjyer Goky mes nyns of vy an Young ma! Fol! Deskough Kernowek mar plek! "Instead, why dont you write in the language and talk about others in the language yourself? Too difficult I guess when you are simple minded...how ironic you write what you did and you did it in English! Practise what you preach or sens dha glap den vyan!" JTreworth Me vy vennaf cowsel Kemmynek po Kernowek Fug!
goky Posts: 1641 Posted: 23.Jul 2007 - 11:37	As usual Young, you miss the point, I am not the one attacking the Kemmynites, I was making an observation about those who are the reactionaries. And you gave yourself away Young by use of that term, don't delude yourself. Blog Gokypyth yw 'Agan Tavas"?, Agan Tavas yw Eddie Climo. Agan Taves Nowyth
Jtreworth Posts: 108 Posted: 23.Jul 2007 - 11:46	gokyAs usual Young, you miss the point, I am not the one attacking the Kemmynites, I was making an observation about those who are the reactionaries. And you gave yourself away Young by use of that term, don't delude yourself. ???????? Pwy arta Goky? Den vyan muscok JTreworth Me vy vennaf cowsel Kemmynek po Kernowek Fug!
ObscureAlternatives Posts: 76 Posted: 23.Jul 2007 - 12:21	for gods sake you two give it a rest nothing will put peeps off geting involved in the language than this kind of pointless argument
CJenkin Posts: 709 Posted: 23.Jul 2007 - 12:31	ObscureAlternativesfor gods sake you two give it a rest nothing will put peeps off geting involved in the language than this kind of pointless argument Agreed - Flame wars betwen people far from Kernow do little to deal with language issues here.
Jtreworth Posts: 108 Posted: 23.Jul 2007 - 19:46	ObscureAlternativesfor gods sake you two give it a rest nothing will put peeps off geting involved in the language than this kind of pointless argument This Goky and others, have a myth about a phantom guy named Brian Young, like the boogy-man that creeps around every forum, throws big words at them and then hides! By all evidence, I am the lucky sod to be named him this time around. What an honor! Skilled linguists and they cant sort out who is who! It is really kind of funny and sad. JTreworth Me vy vennaf cowsel Kemmynek po Kernowek Fug!
FlammNew Posts: 1814 Posted: 23.Jul 2007 - 21:34	Brian Young is not a phantom. He went off the radar after some unpleasant exchanges a while ago but has recently resurfaced. His supporters are (almost?) entirely among those opposed to Kemmyn, for some reason. edited by: FlammNew, Jul 23, 2007 - 09:34 PM dukkha-samudaya-nirodha-magga
goky Posts: 1641 Posted: 23.Jul 2007 - 22:59	Lebman, theram a trigaz en Pow Densher. Blog Gokypyth yw 'Agan Tavas"?, Agan Tavas yw Eddie Climo. Agan Taves Nowyth
Jtreworth Posts: 108 Posted: 24.Jul 2007 - 01:07	FlammNewBrian Young is not a phantom. He went off the radar after some unpleasant exchanges a while ago but has recently resurfaced. His supporters are (almost?) entirely among those opposed to Kemmyn, for some reason.edited by: FlammNew, Jul 23, 2007 - 09:34 PM I think the unpleasant exchanges have come from your camp initially to everyone other than yourselves, you have this backwards. The perspective is in reverse here. The trouble causers are pointing fingers at the targets as to blame. Why is this Young guy to blame for anything? Isn't you that are all together causing problems? I thought it was Evertype, Marhak, Eddie and a few others? But now we have another name? I hope the Commissioner who looks upon these posts from all of you lot will follow the sequence of exchanges. I would start deleting your posts if possible before it ruins your cause. You mention someone's name on here that from my observation has never been on here but you forget or overlook your own list of names. Odd. Morvran, Morvyl, Flammnew, and we cant forget Goky. Quite an ensemble of characters bent on destroying the revival for all. No wonder there is so much anti-Kemmyn sentiment going on!You cant convience me, let's hope your lies can distract the Commission (but not likely...) JTreworth Me vy vennaf cowsel Kemmynek po Kernowek Fug!
marhak online Posts: 3217 Posted: 24.Jul 2007 - 09:39	Whoa, JT - Morvyl's one of the good guys (yeah, we have our own slant on things).
FlammNew Posts: 1814 Posted: 24.Jul 2007 - 10:09	JtreworthI hope the Commissioner who looks upon these posts from all of you lot will follow the sequence of exchanges. I hope s/he does, then he will get a clear picture of the two-way (because it is two way) arguments, the calm discussions that have taken place, the politeness which usually abounds! When people don't react when provoked things go well here, it is the trolls who cause problems by baiting the people they know will react. All this discussion is pretty pointless anyway: the process is currently out of our hands and all we can do is wait for September and the decision of the commission. Hopefully come September there will be dancing in the streets, users of all systems will conga in harmony through Truro and all the old scores will be laid aside in a spirit of unity and brotherly and sisterly love for the language. Sadly, in the words of the Kaiser Chiefs (a popular beat combo for the oldies out there), "I predict a riot". In the meantime let's stay polite, not slag off other forms, not react when provoked, and just get on with using and promoting Cornish whatever form we use. dukkha-samudaya-nirodha-magga
Jtreworth Posts: 108 Posted: 24.Jul 2007 - 18:07	FlammNew JtreworthI hope the Commissioner who looks upon these posts from all of you lot will follow the sequence of exchanges. I hope s/he does, then he will get a clear picture of the two-way (because it is two way) arguments, the calm discussions that have taken place, the politeness which usually abounds! When people don't react when provoked things go well here, it is the trolls who cause problems by baiting the people they know will react. All this discussion is pretty pointless anyway: the process is currently out of our hands and all we can do is wait for September and the decision of the commission. Hopefully come September there will be dancing in the streets, users of all systems will conga in harmony through Truro and all the old scores will be laid aside in a spirit of unity and brotherly and sisterly love for the language. Sadly, in the words of the Kaiser Chiefs (a popular beat combo for the oldies out there), "I predict a riot". In the meantime let's stay polite, not slag off other forms, not react when provoked, and just get on with using and promoting Cornish whatever form we use. All of this name-calling and personal attacks by the people that use the Kemmyn form will really pile high by September. Then we will see what effect this behavior has on our precious language. Those who have been harassing others will see the light and karma will come swiftly. The Commission may even just drop the idea entirely after witnessing this forum and the acidic words and behavior of people like Goky, Branvras and Morvran. We know who they are more or less, Reeves, Bailey and Saunders, well known names in the movement. Even I know them and I am new to this whole revival! I almost want to take up learning some language like Shirpa or some exotic islander tongue instead of Cornish but I am Cornish and live in Cornwall. Me vy vennaf cowsel Kemmynek po Kernowek Fug!
FlammNew Posts: 1814 Posted: 24.Jul 2007 - 20:00	If the commission are weak enough to consider dropping the whole thing thanks to the comments of two or three people FROM EACH SIDE then I demand a refund on what they've been paid. They aren't there to be popular, they are there to make the right decision on behalf of the future of the Cornish language. Good luck with the Sherpa. dukkha-samudaya-nirodha-magga