Posts: 576
Posted:
25.Apr 2008 - 12:55
I want to know what the Gorseth does in a practical, campaigning, and cultural level.
Please quote examples with an explanation of the amount of success or profile achieved.
This is not me having a vendetta... it is me trying to understand the organisation.
Radyo an Gernewegva
Posts: 630
Posted:
25.Apr 2008 - 13:46
I would simply ask what does the Gorsedh do that worthwhile for cornwall?
But I'm starting to think that it won't for us cornish, no unity, no leadership, but lots of factions, backbiting and esoteric language drivel
The Bureaucracy needs to expand to meet the needs of the Bureaucracy
[url]http://www.rossocarrollkelly.ie/
Posts: 1171
Posted:
25.Apr 2008 - 13:53
NOTE: No Cornish Bard has ever appeared in Camberwick Green, saying that, Windy Miller dresses similar.
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Posted:
25.Apr 2008 - 14:41
http://www.gors...sh/about.htm
In a practical, campaigning, and cultural level they would appear to do very little, apart from publishing, competitions and communicating with other culturally active organisations. Perhaps that may change now they have appointed their first employee?
From their point of view I guess it's a bit like asking what the Order of the British Empire actually does ...
By the way I'm not a particularly huge fan of the gorsedh.
edited by: CJenkin, Apr 25, 2008 - 02:42 PM
Posts: 1171
Posted:
25.Apr 2008 - 14:57
I swapped it for John Angarrack Action Man that actually moved.
OBE is a Royal disease, that spreads via the tongue - look for brown speckles as an early symptom.
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Posted:
25.Apr 2008 - 15:38
The Gorseth's reputation shines by the reflected light of the actions of its members. If the bards are seen to promote Cornwall noticeably and prominently, in the name of the Gorseth, then the Gorseth will be seen to be worthwhile.
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Posted:
25.Apr 2008 - 15:54
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Posted:
25.Apr 2008 - 15:54
Radyo an Gernewegva
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Posted:
25.Apr 2008 - 16:08
I think though that is important - it celebrates our history, its a historical figure, and its good publicity.
TEL
Everything is impossible until it is not.
Posts: 16
Posted:
25.Apr 2008 - 16:13
Posts: 2744
Posted:
25.Apr 2008 - 16:14
I can't think of a successful, high-profile campaign, from a Cornish cultural stance being achieved by any organisation. I can think of smaller important ones and indeed the Gorsedh certainly played a part:
http://www.corn...icleid=43031
The organisation gives credibility to such events.
edited by: Mike, Apr 25, 2008 - 04:15 PM
Posts: 576
Posted:
25.Apr 2008 - 16:16
I'm not sure whether it is good publicity. From the people I speak to, they see it as more of a weird curiosity. To quote one person, they are the "wizards".
Some people can't even tell the difference between Vanessa Beeman and Ed Prynn!
Radyo an Gernewegva
Posts: 1193
Posted:
25.Apr 2008 - 16:23
Isn't it weird that the ArchDruid him/her self appeared like magic when the Gorseth came up in conversation? Do you think they have a secret police division?
Mar vedhow avel gelvinek
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Posted:
25.Apr 2008 - 16:28
To become a member, you have to have achieved something, therefore, it is something to aspire to.
The Saxons have their Lords, we have our Bards.
(Maybe not the best analogy, but you know what I mean)
Kernow Kensa!
Our day will come!
"Everyone has their own particular part to play. No part is too great or too small, no one is too old or too young to do something."
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Posted:
25.Apr 2008 - 16:39
I didn't see Eggshell ask you on C24 for a link to his Cornish radio site, so assume he approached you privately.
I would consider an online Cornish radio service something beyond consideration if the Gorseth are to be seen to promote the language.
As you're suggested system of private communication was to no avail to Eggshell, perhaps you could offer an explanation to all C24 members who are now confused as to why that type of link is deemed unsuitable. SWF came to mind, but I've not come across many typos while listening to radios.
Wouldn't want people thinking there's a conspiracy going on, would we?
Answers in English language please so there's no arguing over spelling.
Thanks Bard Pard.
Posts: 576
Posted:
25.Apr 2008 - 16:46
I am sparking debate as to what that purpose is, whether it does enough, and whether it could do more to improve the way it is perceived.
Radyo an Gernewegva
Posts: 969
Posted:
25.Apr 2008 - 16:55
TEL
Everything is impossible until it is not.
Posts: 16
Posted:
25.Apr 2008 - 21:37
Posts: 1171
Posted:
25.Apr 2008 - 22:02
If the Gorseth refused to link to eggshell's website, fair enough, why not give your reasons in public and show honesty and transparency?
According to Nigel's website figures there are about 5000 people now waiting to hear the answer. I'm sure it makes little sense to many why the link was refused but would have their suspicion raised if you didn't answer. That is how rumour can turn to belief, which is no good for anyone.
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Posted:
25.Apr 2008 - 22:09
Conspiracy theory anyone?
Kernow Kensa!
Our day will come!
"Everyone has their own particular part to play. No part is too great or too small, no one is too old or too young to do something."
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Posted:
25.Apr 2008 - 22:19
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Posted:
25.Apr 2008 - 23:20
My anticipation of how others may perceive your reluctance to answer is not fostering suspicion at all, it is a guess based on common sense and human experience.
If I contact the secretary I would post the response here quite naturally. That does raise suspicion, at least in my mind, that there is a reason why it can not come straight from the horses mouth, here and now. What is to be gained by insisting I use an extended and unnecessary route of communication when the answer is only one post away, here and now.
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Posted:
26.Apr 2008 - 00:00
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Posted:
26.Apr 2008 - 00:18
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Posted:
26.Apr 2008 - 00:20
That's blown your chances of being grand bard then
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Posted:
26.Apr 2008 - 00:44
You'll have to ask the secretary I'm afraid, this is a public fora.
Barbara Shaw.
Email: secretary@gorsethkernow.org.uk
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Posted:
26.Apr 2008 - 01:05
On the general question, I'm sure the Gorsedh was vitally important in the early 20th century as part of the process of getting Cornwall accepted as a Celtic nation, remember the other five were distinctly unimpressed by our credentials at one time. Also in the early decades of the language revival, before there were any separate language organisations. But more recently I, like Egloshayle, am rather unsure what they're for. They put on a public display, but it lacks the style and polish of the Welsh equivalent, so they walk a very fine line between gravitas and farce. I get the impression that I'm watching a 1930's costume drama. And given that nothing ever changes in the Gorsedh, why do they have to read their lines, you'd think they'd know them by heart by now. I'm unsure of their position on the language these days. They're supposed to promote the language and they hold all their public ceremonial in Cornish, but I doubt that even half the bards are fluent and many have no Cornish at all, although (another paradox) many of our most fluent speakers are bards and indeed Gorsedh officers etc.
They've always seemed to want to position themselves as a sort of quasi-public institution, and yet they're no more answerable to anyone outside their organisation than The Ancient Order of Buffalo's of whatever. They may even be offensive to real druids, just supposing there are any.
Aside from their amature theatricals, they seem to be little more than a self-congratulation society, and rather irrevelent to anyone outside the charmed circle of "The Arts", "Culture", local politics, and the FOCS.
Tradition is a fine thing, but traditions need to be constantly invented and reinvented to suit the times, 'real' traditions always were.
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Posted:
26.Apr 2008 - 07:18
(Only joshing, bardh meur. We all know nothing is as useless and irrelevant as a gathering of linguists
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Posted:
26.Apr 2008 - 21:48
I find the way 'language bards' and 'honorary bards' are not distinguished very confusing too. While both might be worthy, they are worthy in entirely different ways, like chalk and cheese, although of course a few people would fit into both categories.
Traditionally, as far as we know, you became a bard by reaching a fairly well defined level of knowledge, a bit like getting a degree. If the Gorsedh is supposed to promote the language, why has it been packed with honourary bards who know nothing about the language? (Just like the Partnership). Perhaps understandable when the revival was just getting underway, but after 100 years what excuse is there for barding people who can't even speak basic Cornish, let alone being able to recite large parts of the traditional literature on demand the way traditional bards had to.
Without any reasonably objective membership standard, what's to stop people voting in their mates? For all we know this is exactly what happens. Fair enough I suppose, so long as the Gorsedh is seen to be no more than a private club. If it wishes to remain a national institution then a serious rethink of its aims, its organisation and its image is surely long overdue.
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Posted:
26.Apr 2008 - 21:59
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Posted:
26.Apr 2008 - 22:29
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Posted:
26.Apr 2008 - 22:40
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Posted:
27.Apr 2008 - 02:51
In other words, " Dear Gorseth, Up the Anti ".
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Posted:
27.Apr 2008 - 19:28
Radyo an Gernewegva
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Posted:
27.Apr 2008 - 19:53
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Posted:
27.Apr 2008 - 21:48
Some years ago, when I'd not long been involved with the language, I generally turned up for the Gorsedh and several years running got given the Kowethas banner to hold just outside the magic bardic circle. This was because everyone else seemed to be a bard so had to be in the circle. Anyway, there I was, between the bards and the public, and well, do you remember the "Sermon on the Mount" scene from the Life of Brian? "What did he say?", "Sounded like 'blessed are the cheesemakers ...'" etc. Well it was just like that. The bards were doing their thing, all the public saw were the backs of the nearest encircled bards, they couldn't understand the Cornish and were just waiting for Little Johny to get his certificate or whatever. "What are they doing now?" "Have we got to this bit yet?" "Who's that?" etc., etc. ...
Amusing, yes. But I began to wonder what it was all in aid of, and who exactly it was meant to be for. I don't claim to be able to organise ceremonies, but there are certainly people who can, and I've seen better organised ad hoc. It all went on far too long (without a break) and oh yes, the dirges!
Given that they go to the trouble each year of hiring a field, why not make a day of it? Why not have an opening ceremony to establish the special ethos of the place, then use it as a focus for all sorts of events, exhibitions, demonstrations, you name it. Lots of music, every sort. Get a markee for goodness sake ... And at some point or points the bards can convene and do their stuff, and at the end they close the day, and hopefully a good time has been had by all, contacts made, schemes mooted, and Cornish identity advanced.
I just feel that a great opportunity is thrown away year after year, like I'm watching endless re-runs of an very old movie, and each time the film gets a little more scratched.
I'd like to see a lot more positive emphasis on the language too. I wonder how much damage is done by associating it with all those dirges, and halting mispronounced speeches?
Well, "henn yw lowr, na moy ny res".
Posts: 174
Posted:
27.Apr 2008 - 23:00
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Posted:
27.Apr 2008 - 23:17
Do they bare one nipple down St Keverne way with a pasty balanced on their head while swearing an oath in Cornish to check the An Gof statue once a week for CNE stickers?
Posts: 408
Posted:
27.Apr 2008 - 23:20
That's all I know about Bards..
Is Pol Hodge a Bard?
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Posted:
27.Apr 2008 - 23:37
Just be careful Lovelorn they don't get you into the circle
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Posted:
27.Apr 2008 - 23:39
Might I humbly suggest Pol Hodge for Grand Bard and (if they accepted him as a bard) Jack Bolitho for his deputy?
And perhaps Revd Andy Phillips as Gorsedd Chaplain?
It's radical, but perhaps that represents a truly Cornish (un)Holy Trinity!
Posts: 408
Posted:
27.Apr 2008 - 23:42
Then she wrote a book about it.
Hugh Rowe did that walk too..
I would have really liked to been around then and took part in that walk....
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Posted:
27.Apr 2008 - 23:57
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Posted:
28.Apr 2008 - 00:03
I heard Pol give a speech in St Keverne square during the 1497 commemoration, June last year, he spoke in Cornish and English.
Pretty good spokesman I thought...
edited by: sharon, Apr 28, 2008 - 12:05 AM
Posts: 1171
Posted:
28.Apr 2008 - 00:15
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Posted:
28.Apr 2008 - 02:17
Pol is Swordbearer in fact, and a fluent speaker. But like everyone else he's stuck with a script written by Jenner or Nance decades ago in the dawn of the revival.
How active the 'honoury bards' are I couldn't say, although they might well come out of the woodwork to oppose anything remotely radical. It's one thing to honour someone because you think they're a Jolly Good Chap, but is it right that ever after they should have a say in the running of the organisation? Do the sums. People are honoured for being secretary of the Trepolpen OCS for 40 years, etc. So they won't be on the young side. Then they remain bards til death, bit like the peerage. Is it just me, or has the average age increased over the years? What about barding people who you think are going to do great things, rather than waiting until they've past their peak -- fast-track bardship for rising stars maybe? Or some sort of parallel structure that does the dynamic bit leaving the old guard in peace to sing their dirges? If all else fails a fringe? Bit of street theater??
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Posted:
28.Apr 2008 - 08:34
I became thoroughly disillusioned a few years later when I nominated Tony Blackman for his huge efforts to get Cornish subjects taught in schools (you might remember the folder containing details on all sorts of Cornish subjects, with an impressive number of contributors). They flatly refused that nomination but, instead, installed someone from a European country who had passed an exam in Cornish and who had never been to Britain, let alone Cornwall. To me, that added insult to injury.
OK, Tony was finally and deservedly Barded a few years later but that didn't explain the initial refusal.
edited by: marhak, Apr 28, 2008 - 07:35 AM
Posts: 16
Posted:
28.Apr 2008 - 10:46
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Posted:
28.Apr 2008 - 11:17
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Posted:
28.Apr 2008 - 13:50
I think it is best to stick to discussing the Gorseth as an institution and not about individual bards. I know many individuals who are hard workers for the culture and committed. However, they would probably still work in the same way if they weren't bards.
The comment about the procession by Fancyabrew is the impression most people in Cornwall have I reckon.
The question is: how to you alter that impression?
Radyo an Gernewegva
Posts: 168
Posted:
28.Apr 2008 - 13:51
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Posted:
28.Apr 2008 - 14:03
I did not go public until AFTER I had resigned my bardship.
So get it right, pal. Or, if you choose to make false statements about me, at least have the spine to do it under your own name.
edited by: marhak, Apr 28, 2008 - 01:04 PM
Posts: 576
Posted:
28.Apr 2008 - 14:51
Radyo an Gernewegva
Posts: 1193
Posted:
28.Apr 2008 - 14:51
They should be targeting a younger generation, encouraging the uptake of the language and the dancing and greater appreciation of the culture.
Until I seriously became interested in all things Cornish, when i was about 21 I hadn't even heard of them.
I have to say its a lot like MK, they are starting to focus on younger people, but for years they've been the beard and sandal party.
When are Cornish organisations going to realise that the strongest empathy is with the under 30s~40s. We're the one starting families, and its the Cornish organisations job to instill in us the Cornish values, which we can pass to our children.
Its time to close the generation gap.
edited by: Nosdan, Apr 28, 2008 - 02:56 PM
Mar vedhow avel gelvinek
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Posted:
28.Apr 2008 - 15:04
That says it all for me.
Agreed Nosdan. I would'nt be seen dead in them.
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Where there's a Negative - there's always a Positive. You just have to find it.
Love your enemy - It really does piss them off.
Posts: 576
Posted:
28.Apr 2008 - 15:07
* Focus on younger generations and modernise its approach to protecting the culture,
* overhaul the dressing gowns and tea-towels.
Radyo an Gernewegva
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Posted:
28.Apr 2008 - 16:17
I'd like to see the Gorsedd rid itself of the internal cliques that exist. Ban the term "language bard" for a start. A bard is a bard, irrespective of why he/she was installed in the first place. You don't get "archaeology bards", "music bards", "literary bards", so why this term that sets one set of bards apart from the rest?
I'd also like to see them grow a backbone (along with ArchDruid) and tackle head-on those central government issues that threaten to submerge Cornish identity and culture. I know that they have written and so on, but all in nice polite language. Namby-pamby words that make no impression whatsoever. I'd like them to go in hard. Hard hitting words. Gloves off. The current threats against us are alarmingly serious (the latest being the almost total erasure of Cornish culture from "Culture South West"). The Gorsedd has the potential to be the Champion of Cornwall and the Cornish people - hell, it contains all the talent that's needed - but it must learn to throw a few good punches and a few low blows besides.
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Posted:
28.Apr 2008 - 16:24
agree with all of that
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Posted:
28.Apr 2008 - 16:35
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Posted:
28.Apr 2008 - 16:45
More seriously, the news page of the Gorsedh website shows some interesting stuff, here and overseas:
http://www.gors.../welcome.htm
Cornish culture certainly being seen to being enhanced there. More than I've seen recently by any other organisation.
A serious organisation like the Gorsedh should be approached directly with suggestions through the proper channels, not aired on a troll-ridden rat pit like this.
Posts: 537
Posted:
28.Apr 2008 - 16:59
Instead of putting all our energy, as individuals, into creating change for Cornwall, we appear to be afflicted with a national disease that requires us to knock anything and everything that doesn't quite meet with our own individual belief about how things should be done.
The Gorsedh sets Cornwall apart. You may not like the way it sets Cornwall apart, but if you think it helps Cornwall to have it spoken about on a public forum in terms of dressing gowns and tea-towels, and how tourists snigger at its ceremonies, then you not only need your head examined, but you've seriously lost the plot.
If you don't like the way the Gorsedh does things then write to it suggesting changes. If they don't happen, and they probably won't, then just ignore the Gorsedh and go off and do your own thing for Cornwall. As some of you no doubt do already when your not taking pot-shots at Cornish institutions that don't meet with your very exacting standards.
But don't just put all your energy into discussing what other people (many of whom are busting a gut for Cornwall) are doing badly in your opinion.
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Posted:
28.Apr 2008 - 17:06
I'm not a poet, or artist, I live outside Cornwall, have little free time and have only managed the 1st Exam in Cornish Language after several years hard work... I can't see them welcoming me in open arms can you?
The whole idea of this thread (As I see it) is to raise General Cornish peoples concerns about the Gorseth, perhaps a member who reads this will mention it to the executives? maybe it'll wither and die... But its worth a go.
Mar vedhow avel gelvinek
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Posted:
28.Apr 2008 - 17:09
I think you've missed our point...
I for one think we should have the Gorseth, I wouldn't want it to go at all! But the comments you're getting on here are heartfelt concerns about our leading Cultural organisation. Who wants it to get left behind in the 19th Century? Things change or they get forgotten...
edited by: Nosdan, Apr 28, 2008 - 05:11 PM
Mar vedhow avel gelvinek
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Posted:
28.Apr 2008 - 18:36
Radyo an Gernewegva
Posts: 1122
Posted:
28.Apr 2008 - 18:44
Troll ridden agreed Mike . Rat pit is a little over the top I think.
I think what is generally being said here is this :
The Cornish are pushing hard now for recgnition . You could be a great help in supporting this instead of being seen as an established organisation, who do nothing other than satisfy the ego's of the cream tea Cornish.
However in fairness to the Gorseth, a letter expressing these feelings should be sent through the correct channels and take it from there.
Good thread Egloshal.
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Where there's a Negative - there's always a Positive. You just have to find it.
Love your enemy - It really does piss them off.
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Posted:
28.Apr 2008 - 19:11
Probably including most of the bards
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Posted:
28.Apr 2008 - 19:48
There is so much that they could be the focus of, but it would need a serious rethink of their aims, organisation, style and attitude to the wider Cornish public. They have chosen to appear conspicuously in public as part of their ethos. They cannot therefore expect to be above comment and criticism.
Most of the criticism here seems well meant. They put on a show, they deserve to hear how it was received by the public. If their attitude is "stuff the public" then they should do their thing in private.
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Posted:
28.Apr 2008 - 21:27
Tourists ask their BnB owners who the geezers in the robes are and the Bnb owner hasn't a clue. Could be Cornish Klu Klux Klan for all they know, or animal rights campaigners, or extras in a soap powder advert.
Hardly portrays a widespread cultural unity and knowledge of heritage if the people who live here don't know what the "Klan" are about.
Their PR needs some attention.
How about becoming a pressure group of Bards? Stand outside some SW quango boss's house in the middle of the night with black candles, you'd have them shaking like a shitting whippet. Stop the Cornish land grab, leave you balaclavas and pull on a B-Robe and take to the streets at night. Cause damage in a Bard suit, let them explain it court.
Only joking Archie. Except about the PR.
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Posted:
28.Apr 2008 - 21:46
.
.....
.........
.............
.................
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Posted:
28.Apr 2008 - 22:01
While it does run a cultural honours system (somewhat arbitrarily), the development of the language is carried out by other organisations (CLB, AT etc), the Celtic Congress facilitates inter-Celtic cultural liason, and orthography problems are being sorted by the Cornwall Language Partnership.
So, tell me, what IS the Gorsedd for other than for making a spectacle of itself and people feel better about themselves?
Archdruid, we really do need to know!
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Posted:
28.Apr 2008 - 22:50
Those who call themselves "language bards" do so themselves, as though intending to set themselves apart from the rest. I'm sure that many do not have that intention but I'm equally sure that there are those who do. It's no invention or perception of mine. It's a very real and very divisive pretention. You know it, and I know it.
edited by: marhak, Apr 28, 2008 - 09:52 PM
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Posted:
28.Apr 2008 - 23:01
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Posted:
28.Apr 2008 - 23:07
Let's make sure we come up with good and practical suggestions for the Gorseth.
Radyo an Gernewegva
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Posted:
28.Apr 2008 - 23:11
edited by: Nosdan, Apr 28, 2008 - 11:11 PM
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Posted:
28.Apr 2008 - 23:13
My a gar an delow-ma a-ugh! (but I can't get it to come out right
)AFAIK they're not allowed to wear their gear outside of official ceremonies. Persumably so as not to frighten the horses, kiddies, and 'persons of a nervous disposition'. Someone should get a fashion writer to review the get-up of all the different bardic orders (there are quite a few, it's not just the Cornish language that goes in for schisms).
Btw. another thing I've never dared to asked, why no Cornish druids? The Bretons have 'em, Welsh have 'em, and perish the thought there are even English druids, (I met one once by chance in Plymouth). Perhaps there's some secret senior lodge of grand-archdruids who we offended and ever since the Curse of the Crooked Awen has hung over our fair land ... (piw a vynn gorfenna an hwedhel-ma?)
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Posted:
28.Apr 2008 - 23:14
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Posted:
28.Apr 2008 - 23:17
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Posted:
28.Apr 2008 - 23:17
It's for demonstrating that we're different.
On the other side of the river they have Morris Dancers and Beefeaters and the Dunmow Fitch. On this side we have the Gorsedh and Furry Dance and Obby Oss. All part of the rich tapestry that sets us apart, and every stitch in that tapestry is valuable.
And it's for demonstrating that we have something in common with Wales and Britanny, where they also 'make a spectacle' of themselves in exactly the same way.
Of course the Gorsedh is not above criticism, and I wasn't suggesting it was. But don't hold it up to public ridicule - that doesn't help the cause one bit.
I imagine in years gone by our national affliction had everyone walking round saying 'So, tell me, what IS the Cornish language for, other than for making a spectacle of the people that use it?'.
And the rest is history.
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Posted:
28.Apr 2008 - 23:25
Radyo an Gernewegva
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Posted:
28.Apr 2008 - 23:34
The Welsh and Bretons (and English!) also 'make a spectacle of themselves', but the Welsh at least make a fine spectacle, our gorsedh is, well, just a spectacle these days.
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Posted:
28.Apr 2008 - 23:37
Radyo an Gernewegva
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Posted:
28.Apr 2008 - 23:39
Would we need to re-invent the Cornish Gorsedd today if it didn't exist just because Wales and Brittany have them (like we have pasties and they don't...)? Is its (sole remaining?)ceremonial function really worth all the effort? In the 20th Century, is it creating a sense of differentness or of the absurd?
I've never been to a Gorsedd gathering so don't know.
Posts: 164
Posted:
28.Apr 2008 - 23:41
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Posted:
28.Apr 2008 - 23:44
Perhaps Cornwall's language fraternity should run the equivalent of the Great Dunmow Fitch
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Posted:
28.Apr 2008 - 23:47
The actual declaration and the bardic circle, the awarding of prizes is actually quite acceptable. The things which are harder to 'sell' to the greater Cornwall are things like the 'flower dance' and I have to save the singing is fairly dreary. The harp playing is nice... and it is great to hear Merv and his pipes. Pol is great at his declaration. But then again I am biased in that heart of hearts I do like alot of it.
However, I reckon I am connected to reality enough to see that few would share my view. Most look on the Gorseth as irrelevant.
The point of this here is to be helpful in trying to suggest ways of making the Gorseth more relevant.
Radyo an Gernewegva
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Posted:
28.Apr 2008 - 23:59
When did you first begin to notice this? Tell us more: we're very curious.
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Posted:
29.Apr 2008 - 00:05
The Gorsedh is there, it exists so we don't have to invent it. That said reinventing may be harder. Since it exists how can we best use it? Like I said earlier, and others too, it should move towards something a little more like the Welsh Eisteddfod. They hire a field for a day (why not the whole w/e?) so it ought to be filled with every sort of event and demonstration. The ceremonies should be broken up, opening, awards, closing, whatever. Having the whole of Cornish bard-dom enrobed and encircled throughout (and then spirited away to a secret location for exclusive tea and buns) means that most of the language activists are tied up the whole time. Use the cermonials to establish an atmosphere of 'differentness', but within that cultural 'bubble' there should be lots of other activities, especailly anything and everything to do with the language. I just don't believe that there's no-one in Cornwall who knows how to run an event in a field. The idea would be to make it *the* one event that *everyone* who has anything to do with Cornishness (the word 'culture' hasn't quite the right overtones) goes to. And once that idea is established everyone will go, because, well, you know everyone will be there - nothing suceeds like sucess.
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Posted:
29.Apr 2008 - 00:17
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Posted:
29.Apr 2008 - 00:21
But would the Gorsedh gerontocracy buy it??
Ottena an govynn
edited by: morvran, Apr 29, 2008 - 01:05 PM
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Posted:
29.Apr 2008 - 08:39
You have a point here, last time they were in Truro, I remember, at least 50 people, that were just passing stoping and listening for a few minutes... Other than complete puzzlement I think some were truely interested...
It could have been well worthwile that several of the fitter, younger bards, went and spoke to the crowd, perhaps strolled around town... dare i say it hand out a few leaflets about were to learn various aspects of Cornish Culture? They could even have held a drop in street clinic for the language???
Mar vedhow avel gelvinek
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Posted:
29.Apr 2008 - 13:24
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Posted:
29.Apr 2008 - 13:50
It's nice to have some really positive things said and mentioned in this thread as this is not really meant to be attacking... more giving a little boot up the backside... which every organisation needs.
It's good to see that C24 can be a place of good discussion too... and not just bitching and back-biting, as we often see when the language is discussed.
I hope some of the comment here is being noted by some bardic movers and shakers, and carried back to the 'inner circle'.
By the way, there is a really good article in the Living Cornwall section of the WMN today.
Radyo an Gernewegva
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Posted:
29.Apr 2008 - 14:02
"Tonight on Street Bards, Map Trewander explains to a young builder in an open-top sports car that his constitutional status is being eroded while Myrgh Lannneves looks confused and says "Err...well, it...err..." when a group of youths asks her what the Gorseth actually does..."
Just kidding, I think that the Gorseth is an important institution for Cornwall.
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Posted:
29.Apr 2008 - 14:23
I think possibly another name would be less open to "humorous" use.
Kernow Kensa!
Our day will come!
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Posted:
29.Apr 2008 - 23:35
edited by: marhak, Apr 29, 2008 - 10:50 PM
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Posted:
30.Apr 2008 - 18:42
http://www.muse...ntroduction/
Since they claim to be the Gorsedd of the Island of Britain (not of Wales), where exactly does that leave Gorsedh Kernow -- is ours technically a local branch? If so it could do with some good advice from Head Office.
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Posted:
30.Apr 2008 - 18:43
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Posted:
30.Apr 2008 - 21:12
edited by: marhak, Apr 30, 2008 - 08:13 PM
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Posted:
30.Apr 2008 - 23:09
Seventy Percent of "competent & frequent" Cornish users prefer to write KK! (MAGA/CLP Survey)
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Posted:
1.May 2008 - 08:30
The third book, when I finish it, gets nasty. Serial suicides? With people apparently hanging themselves? People whose names and occupations are the same as those hung by Sir Anthony Kingston's death squads in 1549? Watch this space.
I think they're worth translating but I'll leave that for readers to judge. I only wrote them.
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Posted:
8.May 2008 - 20:35
Some in this thread said that cornish culture was the cornish language. In that case cornish culture is dead, shame that those of us in the social, gig, rugby, etc, clubs and associations full of proud cornish people don't know this. Kernewek is the appendix of modern cornish culture, an evolutionary throw back that might have some interesting use but is generally irrelevant to the body.
Cornwall needs one modern campaigning organisation, and unfortunately this is clearly not provide in any sense by the Gorsedh, or the CSP, and arguably not by MK.
But I'm starting to think that it won't for us cornish, no unity, no leadership, but lots of factions, backbiting and esoteric language drivel
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Posted:
8.May 2008 - 22:10
All these things do different things for different people. The Gorsedh recognises some pretty high level Cornish culture. Some perspective. Prevalent as they may be, social, gig and rugby clubs are not specific to Cornish culture. On the other hand the Kernewek language is and is officially recognised as such.
I don't think any one organisation can represent 'all of Cornwall'. Most places don't have any of our types of organisations.
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Posted:
8.May 2008 - 22:50
The Gorsedd has members from all age groups and class, who have received Bardships for their work on behalf of Cornwall,not only through the language.
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Posted:
9.May 2008 - 08:58
Lovelorn suggests forming a group of younger "Bard Stewards", to work with young people and convince them of the value of Cornish culture (and of the Gorsedd itself). The current way of deciding on who to invite automatically biases the intake to older people. Perhaps Lovelorn could suggest a way to determine significant contributions from younger people (under 40 perhaps) so that a new intake of these Bard Stewards can be appointed.
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Posted:
10.Jul 2008 - 23:59
Does this mean those who want to be bards now have to make an effort for three years rather than two to win their robes before they can give up the language? Is this really going on? I genuinely don't know!
And, again, what do the Cornish Gorseth ACTUALLY do?
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Posted:
22.Jul 2008 - 14:54
what does it do?
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Posted:
22.Jul 2008 - 18:17
What do you do other than criticize?
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Posted:
22.Jul 2008 - 20:05
Its funny how those outside the cliche think that the Gorsedh is past its sell by date and more often than not counterproductive, and those pissing out of the tent think it is the zenith and be all and end of cornishness (which is clearly is not)
The cornish movement needs to be a united poltical social movement rather than the disperate group of organisations that currently exist.