Posts: 467
Posted:
6.May 2008 - 17:50
GD
edited by: gravydave, May 06, 2008 - 07:22 PM
Onan hag oll NEW CORNISH
Posts: 899
Posted:
6.May 2008 - 19:47
Posts: 467
Posted:
6.May 2008 - 20:01
GD
Onan hag oll NEW CORNISH
Posts: 45
Posted:
6.May 2008 - 20:04
I find such laddish exuberance offensive. The nerdish author has probably never seen a bra except in Marks and Sparks.
What has this pathetic sexism got to do with exchange of opinion on Cornish matters?
Jennifer
Posts: 899
Posted:
6.May 2008 - 20:07
Posts: 467
Posted:
6.May 2008 - 20:09
GD
Onan hag oll NEW CORNISH
online
Posts: 2162
Posted:
6.May 2008 - 20:11
It had a more combative look...
Posts: 4365
Posted:
6.May 2008 - 20:36
I fully support Dick Cole and understand MK is in a tricky position but it must not be forgotten that ethnic and civic nationalism are two sides of the same coin and cannot be separated.
Supporting the Cornish ethnic group does not mean denying equal rights for all, Cornish, English or other. However Cornwall needs the Cornish because without them it is nothing, there is no nation.
I think sometimes the 'wider Cornish movement' would just like to see a bit more get up and go from MK but I suppose this is impossible seeing as they are all part time.
edited by: Fulub-le-Breton, May 06, 2008 - 09:36 PM
The Cornish Democrat
The Breton Connection
Posts: 913
Posted:
6.May 2008 - 20:40
Well GD, though your posts to this point have been nothing but shite, I for one thank you for posting this, if it is bona fide.
With reference to the first paragraph only: Nationalists and Recognitionists, must feel as flat as a Witch's Tit (I do ) and as for the founder members of MK , they must be turning in their graves !
The State oppressors must be thrilled that Cornwall's only political party takes this stance. Though I have always felt that this was MK's take, I admit that seeing in print has quite shocked me.
Thank you for your honesty Dick. As things stand, I would'nt vote for you locally or nationally if you were the last party on Earth.
edited by: GrahamHart, May 07, 2008 - 01:30 AM
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Have you emailed everyone in your address book to ask them to make a pledge to the CFF ?
Posts: 899
Posted:
6.May 2008 - 20:53
edited by: angofbew, May 06, 2008 - 08:59 PM
Posts: 2537
Posted:
6.May 2008 - 21:29
Posts: 913
Posted:
6.May 2008 - 21:36
I have been attacked on this forum for criticising MK, but I can assure you that is not my wish. I want a strong MK that supports fully the rightful recognition of our people and our Country.
That has not been the case with MK in my six years as being active for the cause.
I wll continue to criticise in a constructive way as we all should, to strengthen our unity and not to divide it.
And a piss poor job they're doing Mike.....at present.
edited by: GrahamHart, May 07, 2008 - 01:28 AM
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Have you emailed everyone in your address book to ask them to make a pledge to the CFF ?
Posts: 2537
Posted:
6.May 2008 - 21:56
What would you have expected Dick Cole's email to have said?
Posts: 899
Posted:
6.May 2008 - 22:21
Posts: 2537
Posted:
6.May 2008 - 22:27
Posts: 467
Posted:
6.May 2008 - 23:36
He has given the vision of MK clearly.
GD
edited by: gravydave, May 06, 2008 - 11:38 PM
Onan hag oll NEW CORNISH
Posts: 913
Posted:
7.May 2008 - 01:01
That's the problem Mike. You cannot be all things to all people. It's an impossible position to take.
Surely a Nationalist Party should first and foremost be there to promote the views of Nationalists ? ? ?
Again Angofbew I concur with everything you say and I have withdrawn my earlier responses on Dick's position.
Who the hell am I to call for such actions anyway ?
I sincerely hope that these important issues are rectified within the Party, resulting in 100% support from Cornish Nationalists, but that can't happen as things stand.
Though when it's all said and done, and has been mentioned on here recently: We will go nowhere until we face up to the fact of who's our real enemy. THE DUCHY !
edited by: GrahamHart, May 07, 2008 - 01:38 AM
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Have you emailed everyone in your address book to ask them to make a pledge to the CFF ?
online
Posts: 709
Posted:
7.May 2008 - 12:58
No-where in Dicks Email does it say anything about MK not being a Nationalist party - of course we are a nationalist party and promote and recognise the nation of Cornwall.
There is nothing that Dick has said that is incompatible with that view. In that respect we do ultimately promote the views of Nationalists.
The members make up the party and the party policies reflect a positive and progressive Cornish Nationalism which is derived from Cornwall's unique political, cultural, ethnic and constitutional heritage.
Of course there are people who will feel that MK doesn't represent them adequately because they don't agree with MK's policies or progressive stance. (Tories and racists come to mind).
But we are seeking to change Cornwall's political culture so that we can broadly represent the majority of the people who live on this peninsula west of the Tamar.
Billy Bragg's quote re SNP would equally apply to the stance that MK is pursuing.
MK is an unashamedly nationalsit party in the same ilk as the SNP ruling in Scotland and plaid Cymru ruling in Wales. We seek greater co-operation and have many friends amongst these nationalist parties and the nationalist and regionalist parties of Europe.
Personally as a republican I have no great enthusiasm for the Duchy and would be happy to see it disappear, its assets returned to the people that they were stolen from but in terms of practical politics in Cornwall the Duchy has very little influence whatsoever.
Parliament and the Lib. Dems are more cornwall's enemies than anyone else these days.
Posts: 4365
Posted:
7.May 2008 - 13:10
The more votes MK get the more recognition the Cornish nation will get.
edited by: Fulub-le-Breton, May 07, 2008 - 02:13 PM
The Cornish Democrat
The Breton Connection
online
Posts: 2162
Posted:
7.May 2008 - 13:14
In the light of the interesting discussion
.gif){kind=icon}
HERE and drawing on other resources and references elsewherewould you care to set out here, in some detail,
the historic and current basis for MK's claim to Cornish Nationhood?
edited by: TeamKernow, May 07, 2008 - 01:14 PM
Posts: 913
Posted:
7.May 2008 - 13:48
1. In response to C Jenkin and FLB, I am utterly speechless !
2. I await with interest Angofbew's opinion.
Ps. I've never been called a Tory or as Racist before.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Have you emailed everyone in your address book to ask them to make a pledge to the CFF ?
Posts: 467
Posted:
7.May 2008 - 13:51
What free care do old people get now in scotland that they did not get before? and did students pay prescriptions fees before?
GD
Onan hag oll NEW CORNISH
Posts: 4365
Posted:
7.May 2008 - 16:27
Agreed and I'd like to see all Republicans of all colours working together for this end.
I think what some are suggesting in a -We are totally right! You are totally wrong!- sort of way is that on important occasions (the FCPNM, assembly campaign etc) the Duchy weighs in behind closed doors and makes its voice heard.
The Cornish Democrat
The Breton Connection
Posts: 467
Posted:
7.May 2008 - 17:19
GD
Onan hag oll NEW CORNISH
Posts: 899
Posted:
7.May 2008 - 17:20
Conan is right in a lot of what he says, I think we all agree that as it is today, MK has to tread a fine line. The aim is to get elected and then to make the changes to make our Country a place to be able to work in and feel pride in. Only by being elected can we have any chance of making change. The only way is a Cornish Assembly. We have to remember that many Cornish see themselves as English, anyone with even one brain cell knows this to be untrue, but that is how it is and we have to work with that. Only when we get the power can we change the minds of these people, through a proper education and not one based on English lies.
Conan was wrong to say Tories and racists, what is a racist? I am not one thank god, but that does not mean I personally wouldnt send other Nationalities back to where they came from. There are many things wrong with an open imigration policy. Like now we have all the eastern europeans here working while millions of our people are on the dole, why? Surely the Policy must be to let them in ONLY when ALL out People are Emplyed. Why should the Working Man and Woman pay Taxes to keep these on the Dole when there ARE Jobs available? We Live in a Crazy Society where the so called Politically Correct are doing so much to ruin it. Its not being Racist to say this, nor that they should not get Handouts untill they Pay into the Fund. That is common sense, nothing else. Canada has an Immigration Policy where this happens, you can be Sponsered and you cannot claims Benefits for ten Years. We dont hear Canadians being called Racist, in actual fact they have one of the most Culturally Diverse Communities in the World. It seems everyone is so afraind to be branded Racist that their common sense goes out the window. Lets get things in perspective PLEASE.
Posts: 913
Posted:
7.May 2008 - 18:48
edited by: GrahamHart, May 07, 2008 - 06:49 PM
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Have you emailed everyone in your address book to ask them to make a pledge to the CFF ?
Posts: 170
Posted:
7.May 2008 - 19:35
Did you warn him you were going to post it up here? I think not. It is downright shabby.
You seem intent on creating situations where good people's character can be assassinated. Dick is a cracking bloke and you are evidently not in the same league.
Perhaps we might know your identity so we can discuss yours publically here?
Posts: 467
Posted:
7.May 2008 - 20:14
It is OK for other people to post email, letters and reply's from others but me to post DC's email that's a problem, sounds like you're trying hide something or take control?
I like his email that is why I posted it. I am 100% behind his statement, if you have a problem with what he has said then take it up with him.
GD
edited by: gravydave, May 07, 2008 - 08:15 PM
Onan hag oll NEW CORNISH
Posts: 1188
Posted:
7.May 2008 - 22:14
Where do you want you decisions making about Cornwall? Central or local?
GH, the enemy is not The Duchy, I think you may mean the Duchy or Cornwall's private estate - according to case law, from the Duchy of Cornwall legal team, the Duchy is the whole of Cornwall.
It should not be measured nor judged by quantity of influence. In fact to say the Duchy has no influence is to say that Cornwall has no influence in politics. If you mean the Ducal powers and rights of Mr Windsor has no influence in Cornwall's politics then I disagree. While his actions and influences remain behind closed doors why give him the positive benefit of the doubt as to his intervention in political spheres?
Posts: 913
Posted:
7.May 2008 - 22:59
I most certainly don't mean that.
Precisely moonshine, and our real Enemy.
We've gone off topic which for me is just as well. I'm sick to death of MK........but good luck to them in the future.
My final word on the subject.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Have you emailed everyone in your address book to ask them to make a pledge to the CFF ?
online
Posts: 709
Posted:
8.May 2008 - 11:44
Simple answer no.
I could probably write a book on why Cornwall is a nation - life is too short to do it here. I don't think most MK people 'claim' that Cornwall is a nation they just believe it to be so because the evidence is so overwhelming.
online
Posts: 709
Posted:
8.May 2008 - 11:49
Graham, with respect, I didn't call you either a Tory or Racist - and certainly don't think of you in that way. I did however point out that those groups are obvious candidates for people who wouldn't support the thrust of what MK is trying to achieve.
online
Posts: 90
Posted:
8.May 2008 - 12:10
why must we always bicker, we cornish are just the worst
all MK activists are part time and unpaid, this is the crux of the matter, who can run a political party part time; it is difficult
going back to the inclusiveness of MK, we must be welcoming to all of the new cornish; democracy is a numbers game
Posts: 229
Posted:
8.May 2008 - 13:18
Why do more Cornish people have an affinity with the Cornish Independents, and why is this preference clearly expressed at voting time?
Sometimes it seems as if MK has analysed what the Cornish are happy and comfortable with and have then moved sharply off in a different political direction.
There’s nothing wrong with people taking an interest in MK. Politics is about debate, not about sacred cows and the best politicians are those who have the opportunity to hone their arguments.
online
Posts: 709
Posted:
8.May 2008 - 13:27
Couldn't agree more - introspection can sometimes be useful but generally it distracts from taking on the real political enemies of Cornwall.
edited by: CJenkin, May 08, 2008 - 01:32 PM
Posts: 93
Posted:
9.May 2008 - 13:19
online
Posts: 709
Posted:
9.May 2008 - 15:29
My own view would be that it's none of our business how a neighbouring nation would organise its own political affairs. That of course presupposes that England would have no political claim on its neighbour of Cornwall. Any new constitutional arrangements would from where we're standing have to take into account Cornwall's nationhood. (i.e. Cornwall would not be part of an English parliament).
online
Posts: 2162
Posted:
9.May 2008 - 21:15
It would be helpful to have some bullet points summarising MK's stance on 'Cornwall's nationhood',CJenkin.
edited by: TeamKernow, May 09, 2008 - 09:16 PM
Posts: 2537
Posted:
10.May 2008 - 18:27
Posts: 1918
Posted:
13.May 2008 - 12:15
I suggest that it is because the voters are supporting the INDIVIDUALS that they believe best reflect their views.
This is in effect an indictment of both Nationalist groups AND MK, in that they are not 'hitting the spot' of what Cornish people want.
(It's worth highlighting that some (many?) of the nationalist groups in Cornwall do not even put candidates up for election.)
MEBYON KERNOW is Cornwall's only real, home grown political party, and SHOULD be the "natural home" for all nationalist voters and would be politicians, but it clearly doesn't manage that.
I have never voted MK so far.
I have rarely had the option, due to lack of candidates, but even when there is one, MK somehow just doesn't appeal to me.
I don't even like its name, and PERSONALLY believe that is its first and greatest stumbling block in any attempt to appeal to the (almost exclusively) English speaking electorate.
"Plaid Cymru" is a good name for the "Welsh Nationalist Party" as Wales has a really significant number of Welsh speakers, it makes sense.
The "Scottish Nationalist Party" however, is a good name for the predominantly English speaking Scotland.
I believe that, simply by changing MKs name to "The Cornish Party" they would attract more potential voters.
Some people reading this will tell me that "a democratic party is what its members want it to be"
Some might suggest that people like me should JOIN MK and try to change it from inside.. I simply do not have the time or will, believing that IF a political party actually wanted ME to support them, then they would make sure they would appeal to me!
In around 12 months time there will be elections for members to the new Cornish Unitary Authority (or whatever it's called by then)
There will hopefully be around fifty additional 'fresh' seats that don't currently exist.
It's up to Cornwall to express itself at the elections, and there's not much time left for people to get organised.
I wish MEBYON KERNOW well, but I might actually VOTE for "THE CORNISH PARTY".
Graham.
We live in interesting times.
Posts: 375
Posted:
13.May 2008 - 14:22
Changing the name would be superficial. What the public need are better services and governance, and usually people vote for MK candidates because they like the people, and aren't that bothered what the party is called.
If MK change their name, then why don't we start changing all the Cornish place names too, to make it easier for them to appeal to people? Of course not.
We should be proud of our Cornish party, which even has the humility to call itself 'Mebyon Kernow - The Party for Cornwall.'
Posts: 18
Posted:
13.May 2008 - 14:42
"Cornishness" is about culture, not race. Any child, of whatever race, born and brought up in Cornwall will become -- inevitably -- "Cornish". As an example of this you need look no further than one of the finest rugby captains that Cornwall has had since the War -- Dean Shipton. Dean was born in east London and only moved to Cornwall when he was about 11. If you dare to tell Dean that he's not "Cornish" you're a better man that I am!
What is important is that we defend what is left of our uniquely Cornish culture by opposing the continued "Anglicanisation" of Cornwall (for example, the administration of Cornish historical sites by English Heritage; the lumping of Cornwall with Plymouth in the EU Parliamentary constituency; the lack of a Cornish Assembly).
Yeghes da,
Jan
Posts: 1103
Posted:
13.May 2008 - 16:01
TGG For The (Real)Reason Why!
STOP THE CORNISH GENOCIDE!- The existence of divergent views occur because the lies and deception have a more profoundly negative, and contrived, consequence for the Cornish people than for anyone else within the UK.
online
Posts: 709
Posted:
13.May 2008 - 16:15
[*] Mebyon Kernow - The Party for Cornwall is a Nationalist political party found in the Nation of Cornwall. (the only one)
[*] It's members recognise that Cornwall is a nation.
[*] It works towards greater political recognition of Cornwall as a Nation.
[*] It believes that the National population of Cornwall should make decisions about Cornwall's future.
Does that cover what you want?
edited by: CJenkin, May 13, 2008 - 04:17 PM
Posts: 35
Posted:
13.May 2008 - 21:28
Fellow readers of this site, there is a real need for those of you who feel your Cornishness to express it, to give voice to it, for it is sadly under real threat - and it is truly worth preserving.
Our Kernow is a little land, a special land and its people and its ways are worth preserving.
Horton
edited by: HortonBar, May 13, 2008 - 09:30 PM
Posts: 93
Posted:
14.May 2008 - 23:51
That's not a bad idea - but how about a compromise ?
MEBYON KERNOW - THE CORNISH PARTY or
MEBYON KERNOW - THE PARTY FOR CORNWALL
printed on the ballot papers - at least people wouldn't be able to miss it !!
Posts: 154
Posted:
15.May 2008 - 09:21
No amount of name changing will change that.
That is why it has never been able to get enough votes to elect an MP/ MEP and only manages to get a handful of seats on local councils.
online
Posts: 709
Posted:
15.May 2008 - 10:28
Actually that's a really inaccurate representation of the party. The party can be described as left-of-centre because of its social concerns but it is very far from a traditional socialist party. Being left of centre is not difficult these days when almost all the main parties are either in the centre or right of centre. MK is no more left of centre than Cameron's Tories are right of centre. You are correct that Cornwall lacks a significant socialist tradition which is why MK aren't a left-wing socialist party.
There are indeed members that might describe their views as socialist but there are equally members that would describe there views as liberal. If you were looking for more accurate political labels then social democratic, liberal, radical (maybe green) and of course nationalist would be more appropriate.
Personally I find the left-right axis which exists in English politics less than satisfactory for the situation of Cornwall.
Posts: 467
Posted:
16.May 2008 - 14:19
GD
Onan hag oll NEW CORNISH
Posts: 4365
Posted:
16.May 2008 - 17:31
The politics of identity is mentioned and perhaps an olive branch to other Cornish groups is being offered.
The Cornish Democrat
The Breton Connection
Posts: 1188
Posted:
16.May 2008 - 18:55
The front cover is a disgrace, it has nothing political nor dynamic in its message. A political party should not show scenes from an outdoor play on the front cover of anything they print.
"What shall we put on this months cover everyone?"
"How about a bunch of actors dressed as animals bowed down before a geezer dressed like a pagan priest."
"Yeah, good idea."
"What message does that give about our great Cornish political Party?"
"Err.. Err, Err... ... ... "
You're MK, not CW.
Posts: 4365
Posted:
17.May 2008 - 08:42
Bar that the content is good.
The Cornish Democrat
The Breton Connection
Posts: 426
Posted:
22.May 2008 - 11:13
Here here! And its for that reason I'm MK's only pretend African Elder member!
This is the crux of the biscuit and why MK is the only choice for Kernow. Whatever happened in the past, that is history and culture. Only the future of Cornwall is important politically socially.
The Cornish Nationalists who don't see that do this great land a great disservice with their inability to let go and be progressive.
Its 2008. Keep up.
Freako Mbiko
Please Visit the Wonderful Continent of Kernow and, after that, check out my blogs:
midcornwall.com
salted.net
Posts: 979
Posted:
22.May 2008 - 11:42
I feel that you dismiss the importance of history too lightly Freako. In my experience, it is those who wish the past to remain in the past, and not be examined in the present, that usually have something they wish to hide, to be forgotten. They have something in the past that, if known, would change the present for them in a way they would not wish.
In life, it is always important to look forward, but you must always keep a good eye on the past, learning from it, and using what you have learnt in the present, to, hopefully, have a smother future.
No, I would say that they are our "good eye", providing lessons that we ignore at our peril.
2008 is what it is because of 2007 & 2006 & 2005 & 200........................
It is never too late to right a wrong, or to change course when one sees that the one your on is not right.
Politically, at the moment, I can only agree with you there, and more people should support and vote for them.
Kernow Kensa!
Our day will come!
"Everyone has their own particular part to play. No part is too great or too small, no one is too old or too young to do something."
Posts: 1188
Posted:
22.May 2008 - 12:14
The only biscuit involved in the crux will be found labeled as Duchy Originals.
It is stupid to suggest that we all move on and forget the past while Cornwall maintains a secret head of state and government who has no intention whatsoever to let go of a past that secures millions of pounds for one man while everyone else pretends we're just a shire county of England.
When Charles Windsor comes forward and declares his past as null and void ONLY THEN will your advise have any substance, meaning or credibility.
Posts: 426
Posted:
22.May 2008 - 12:53
It is crucial to stress that, as I have been saying for ages on here (as Mid, I cant login with that??), that I fully support the propagation of the understanding and enrichment of Cornish culture and history. Absolutely and without question.
But it is NOT important politically. Its just not. Thats not what politics is and thats not what political parties should be catering for.
What has right got to do with this? This is reality not morality. Bad stuff happens in the past, the people of the future have to deal with it.
We would laugh if, say, the English Conservatives, tried to get some political motive by bemoaning the Norman Invasion and how unfair it was.... its the same kind of thing with winging on about ancient wrong doings against the Cornish.
Great!!! I agree with you agreeing with me and fully encourage others to agree with you agreeing with me too!!! :P
Woop Woop!
Freako Mbiko
Please Visit the Wonderful Continent of Kernow and, after that, check out my blogs:
midcornwall.com
salted.net
Posts: 426
Posted:
22.May 2008 - 12:55
Thats just not the case.
Freako Mbiko
Please Visit the Wonderful Continent of Kernow and, after that, check out my blogs:
midcornwall.com
salted.net
Posts: 426
Posted:
22.May 2008 - 13:01
There is no conspiracy here. You mistake the English Governments total disinterest in this issue for some perpetual conspiracy transcending decades and parties. Its just silly.
You are making a sensation claim moonshine, "Cornwall maintains a secret head of state and government", do you actually have any evidence to support this? Sensational claims need sensational evidence.
Freako Mbiko
Please Visit the Wonderful Continent of Kernow and, after that, check out my blogs:
midcornwall.com
salted.net
Posts: 1188
Posted:
22.May 2008 - 13:08
Here and here.
Posts: 426
Posted:
22.May 2008 - 13:17
There is nothing there about a modern conspiracy
Regarding the book, Does the author know that Scat in English is a vocal improvisation with nonsense words and syllables giving the singer the ability to sing improvised melodies and rhythms, to create the equivalent of an instrumental solo using their voice? Thats Gross!
edited by: FreakoMbiko, May 22, 2008 - 04:22 PM
Freako Mbiko
Please Visit the Wonderful Continent of Kernow and, after that, check out my blogs:
midcornwall.com
salted.net
Posts: 1188
Posted:
22.May 2008 - 13:45
You haven't read either then?
Posts: 426
Posted:
22.May 2008 - 13:53
Let me put it this way:
If you ask a 911 conspiracy theorists, for example, for evidence they will be able to rattle of nuggets dime a dozen.... controlled demolitions... weird transactions.... thousands of bits of "evidence".
Irrespectve of the validity, they at least have "ammo"
Can you give me, say, three bits of evidence, from either of the sources you mentioned, or any other source, that supports this Conspiracy you so sure of.
Just three points? Possible?
Thanks
Mat
Freako Mbiko
Please Visit the Wonderful Continent of Kernow and, after that, check out my blogs:
midcornwall.com
salted.net
Posts: 1188
Posted:
22.May 2008 - 13:56
You should know all this already.
Posts: 1103
Posted:
22.May 2008 - 15:08
Everything that everybody puts forward for consideration can be stated as being 'biased' or 'prejudiced'. If you have not read the book, how can you say that it is biased, in a way that you arrogantly imply is negative? It is making statements (based on what is happening now) and substantiating them. Simply saying that the past is irrelevant does not negate its truth, or its relevance to current events and future aspirations.
Give an example of what you would truly accept as 'evidence'? Your mind is already made up and closed to the possibility of there being any!
TGG For The (Real)Reason Why!
STOP THE CORNISH GENOCIDE!- The existence of divergent views occur because the lies and deception have a more profoundly negative, and contrived, consequence for the Cornish people than for anyone else within the UK.
Posts: 979
Posted:
22.May 2008 - 18:56
There I would disagree with you, If you look at Ireland within just the last 100 years, you will see how events that happened, decisions that people made, even things that were said, in the early part of the last century, have a very real, and meaningful, impact on politics today, and will do so for a long time to come. How any Irishman could bring themselves to support a Tory or liberal(lib Dem), is beyond me.
If we now go back a little further, we can see that those actions etc were themselves influenced by events etc that occurred earlier, and so on and on.
Whilst the last 100 years in Cornwall have not been quite so eventful, (there have been times in the past where they were comparable) it is still our history. It is history, or what happened in the past, that made us what we are. To say that politically that is irelevent is playing into the hands of those who would have you believe that we are simply just another county of England. Is saying that we are being parochial to object to being lumped into a SW region.
Look at it on a personal level, if, as a child, there was a boy who kept bulling you, stealing your lunch money etc, would you if you meet this boy in later life, say to your self "that was in the past" and lend him your car? No, you would be weary of him, and not start to trust him until he had proved that he was a reformed character. You would, rightly, learn lessons from your history, and use those lessons in your present.
As for not being "what political parties should be catering for", I personally do not want any political party that dose not learn from the past, and does not attempt to rectify the mistakes of the past, so that our present and future can run smoothly, in any position of power.
Right has everything to do with it. Do you really wish to live in a reality with NO morality?
But, according to you, the past should stay in the past, having no relevance to the present. So how can you suggest that the people of the future will have to deal with the bad stuff that happened in their past, because for them, according to you, it will be irelevent.
Or to put it another way, Bad stuff has already happened in the past, our present is the future of those events, and it is now time to deal with it.
Unfortunately, it is of the nature of "the English Conservatives" to completely ignore the past, and the mistakes made, so they are doomed to continually repeat them. However, I would not be a bit surprised, if they thought they could gain from it, were they to do such a thing.
As for "winging on about ancient wrong doings against the Cornish" it is human nature to remember such things. Should the Jews forget the holocaust, the Irish the potato famine, the Africans the European slave trade, the Japanese Hiroshima and Nagasaki? It is also, unfortunately, human nature to try to forget those things that we are ashamed of, or would rather had not happened, and that is when they happen again.
All these things should be remembered, because they have relevance to today, as does the history of Cornwall and the Cornish people.
Cornish history is ignored, and ridiculed, because there are those for whom it would be easier if the Cornish no longer existed. Those events that you claim Cornish Nationalists whinge about, are raised, are shouted about, as much to point out that we do exist, that we are a people with a shared history, one that we are proud of, as to bemoan the fact that they happened. Without that history, we are nothing. Without that history, we have little to fight the powers that would wish us dispersed, with no tie to our land, so that they can do as they wish.
Political parties need to take that into account, because the Cornish exist, they exist now, they exist because of, even in-spite of, our history. we exist now, in the present, and that present needs to be recognised.
Kernow Kensa!
Our day will come!
"Everyone has their own particular part to play. No part is too great or too small, no one is too old or too young to do something."
Posts: 426
Posted:
22.May 2008 - 21:12
Im not being arrogant Jim, I have spent lots of time amoungst conspiracy theories (salted.net) and I know by now that as soon as there mention of conspiracy you have to be extra scpetical and extra rational.
Historal unfairness, yes.
Current unfairness, I certainly think so.
But a current conspiracy, thats a paradign shift.
Whether its about Kernow, or Tooth paste or Flight 93, when you call something a conspiracy you change the game.
>>>Give an example of what you would truly accept as 'evidence'? Your mind is already made up and closed to the possibility of there being any!
I would want incriminating facts of conspiracy pertaining to institutional or governmental dishonesty, fraud, coercion or any other wrong doing.
It might be, "In 1998 Tony Blair sighed a document removing the rights of..." And then there would need to be documentary evidence to back that up.
Note that I wont be happy with evidence of unfairness because I agree with you there, fully, Cornwall is treated unfairly.
If you show me the evidence of a real conspiracy, and if it proves it, I'll belive it...
And I'm never arrogant, please
A bit of a *****, maybes Mat
Freako Mbiko
Please Visit the Wonderful Continent of Kernow and, after that, check out my blogs:
midcornwall.com
salted.net
Posts: 426
Posted:
22.May 2008 - 21:44
The cold hard fact of the matter is that whatever the "true cornish nation" may be, year by year it gets diluted by the same integration that, like it or not, is happening all over Europe. We are becoming one.
So... what can the Cornish Nation do? They can try to fight the inevitable dilution, but because it cant be fought (Nobody is speical, thank goodness), they wont win, so all that can be done is complain. And then all that happens is that the rest of the world thinks we are bumpkin terrorists. Why get scars from a fight that we know cannot be won?
All is imperminant.
All we can do is preserve the culture and history of Cornwall and let it exisist as best it can in this new cluttered future thats facing us all.
[quote=P_Trembath]Look at it on a personal level, if, as a child, there was a boy who kept bulling you, stealing your lunch money etc, would you if you meet this boy in later life, say to your self "that was in the past" and lend him your car?[quote]
No, I belive in Forgiveness, if you dont have that you have hate, and hate really is a poision. On a personal and a national level. Why cant you just let it go, just like the Jews have had to and the Aboriginies and the Native Americans. Why cant the English haters forgive?
[quote=P_Trembath]Right has everything to do with it. Do you really wish to live in a reality with NO morality?
Are suggesting that you wish to maintaing a moral debt against the Englsigh for a series of Crimes going back 700 years?
[quote=P_Trembath]...according to you, the past should stay in the past, having no relevance to the present.[quote]
Please dont misquote me, I have said a thousand times, or less, on this forum that I am totally behind Cornwall and its history and its culture. I have never vered from that. I am saying that its not relevant to who who going to best sort out our housing and salaries and summer infrastructure and world opinion and all that other stuff that change positively the lives of people in Cornwall.
those are political importances and if you can explain how history is relevant to any of them I am, again, all ears.
a progressive Cornish nationalism could be such a bright force for Cornwall, but Cornish nationlist need to decide of they want to be forging and political or agressive and hating.
[quote=P_Trembath]Should the Jews forget the holocaust....[quote]
No, of course not. Equally they should not still be using it as a political motive. And they are not. Can you show me any group who do use historical wrongdoings for future political change?
I am a Buddhist and I believe very much that the negativity of much of the Cornish nationalist movement has achieved nothing but more negatvity and this cycle will not change until people forgive the English
Freako Mbiko
Please Visit the Wonderful Continent of Kernow and, after that, check out my blogs:
midcornwall.com
salted.net
Posts: 408
Posted:
22.May 2008 - 21:51
Its totally different...
The English are suppressers...
The Cornish are supressed...
Posts: 426
Posted:
22.May 2008 - 21:57
Can you please explain why its different Sharon, as I dont see why
Freako Mbiko
Please Visit the Wonderful Continent of Kernow and, after that, check out my blogs:
midcornwall.com
salted.net
Posts: 1188
Posted:
22.May 2008 - 22:13
Simplified version for deaf African chieflets.
History.
The Duchy Charters, the Foreshore Case and over 100 Acts of Parliament make Charles Windsor the head of state of Cornwall and places the 'county' of Cornwall firmly WITHIN the Duchy of Cornwall as a territorial possession.
The Duchy of Cornwall is the official and inalienable government of Cornwall.
Governments do politics, Cornwall's government was set up in the distant past.
Which bit don't you get in relation to Cornish politics and Cornish history?
Posts: 426
Posted:
22.May 2008 - 22:45
The Duchy Charters, the Foreshore Case and over 100 Acts of Parliament make Charles Windsor the head of state of Cornwall and places the 'county' of Cornwall firmly WITHIN the Duchy of Cornwall as a territorial possession.
The Duchy of Cornwall is the official and inalienable government of Cornwall.
Governments do politics, Cornwall's government was set up in the distant past.
Relates to any of this:
best sort out our housing and salaries and summer infrastructure and world opinion.....
simply show me!
Freako Mbiko
Please Visit the Wonderful Continent of Kernow and, after that, check out my blogs:
midcornwall.com
salted.net
Posts: 913
Posted:
22.May 2008 - 22:53
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Have you emailed everyone in your address book to ask them to make a pledge to the CFF ?
Posts: 979
Posted:
22.May 2008 - 23:10
Forgive me if I do not find the prospect of one large homogeneous culture one to be looked forward to, or even encouraged. I prefer a prospect of many diverse cultures, each different, and each having its own "base". When you say "We are becoming one" I would have no problem with that if it meant becoming one united group of diverse peoples, each respecting the different cultures, traditions, and languages of the others, what I am afraid I see is a determined push towards an homogeneous grey encompassing culture, who's population is, therefore, that much easier to control. Where nowhere is any different, culturally, from anywhere else.
That is why history is so important, without it there is nothing to fight the dilution you mention, nothing to prevent it from achieving that onerous homogeneous grey culture.
I do not believe that your dilution is inevitable, and it can be fought. But to fight it, we need to improve peoples awareness of their culture, and the fact that it is special (unlike you, I believe that everyone is special, thank goodness), and that it needs protecting and preserving, as do all other cultures/ethnic groups. If we are able to do that, if we are allowed to do that, then we can win.
If we "let it go" we are lost. Incidentally, I think you will find that neither the Jews, The Aborigines, or the Native Americans have let it go either, they are all, in their own way, still fighting.
You mention "English haters", this is a theme that keeps recurring, and one that I find particularly offensive. I hate no-one. I do not hate the English, I am married to one, and she is proud of her heritage, I have no problem with that. I do have a problem with those people who would deny me my right to exist as a Cornishman, who wish to place me in a grouping of their choice, ignoring my, and my Country's history. Even then, I do not hate them, just pity there ignorance, and lack of respect. I do hate the English establishment, that encourages such behaviour, but it is the establishment that I hate, not the people who run it, as they are ignorant of the truth, and have been brought up to believe what they have been told, and not to question it, in a way, it is not their fault. So please lets leave this hate myth behind, it is only propagated by those who have no more imagination than to believe the saying "if your not with us, your against us", and do not recognise that it is possible to be "with" but not "of".
I am suggesting no such thing, I was reacting to your statement
It is morally wrong to deny a person his identity, it is morally wrong to deny a group of people their identity. The crimes of the past were in the past, but by continuing to deny us our identity, those crimes are being repeated today, although they have, at least, stopped killing us.
If you feel that I have misquoted you, I apologize, it was not meant, I just understood that to be what you meant when you said
I.e. the past is past, and should stay there.
I have been trying, if I have failed, that is down to my inability to express myself clearly enough, it is not due to history's irrelavence.
I do not see that learning from, and addressing the issues of, our history, and being forging and political, are mutually exclusive. I believe it is possible to be both. Please lets loose the "hating" bit.
I can show you your own previous examples, The Aborigines, the Native Americans, and the Jews (all right, the last one was mine), all of them, and others besides, are fighting, in their own ways, past injustice's. Both the Aborigines, and Native Americans, are both fighting, both politically, and in the courts, over land rights, and broken treaties. Both are having, although as yet limited, success. As for the Jews, the whole reason for the existence of their country, Israel, is as a result of their fighting against nearly 2,000 years of historic injustice, The fact that they may not have learnt the right lessons from their history, and are now committing injustice's on others, is both regrettable, and perhaps proof that learning from history is important
I do not know much about Buddhism, and am not sure of it's relevance here, but the only negativity that I see in the Cornish Nationalist Movements, is a reaction to the negativity directed towards them.
As for forgiving the English, forgiveness in itself is an empty gesture until the transgressor admits they have done something that requires forgiveness. It is also not the English who have transgressed, but the English establishment, two totally different things, for that establishment has also transgressed against the English.
Kernow Kensa!
Our day will come!
"Everyone has their own particular part to play. No part is too great or too small, no one is too old or too young to do something."
Posts: 1188
Posted:
22.May 2008 - 23:17
If Charles Windsor is brought out into the spotlight in his true capacity then Cornwall has to be recognised as extra territorial to England. That would make it very hard for them to keep us out of the Framework Convention for the Protection of National Minorities, as the UK Government is claiming exclusion because Cornwall is just another English county.
Inclusion in the FCPNM would put restrictions on the amount of immigration into Cornwall, as you cannot dilute the population of a minority too much when that minority has its own small territory. So less houses would be built and immigration control could become a hot topic.
With a newly recognised ethnic status and more control over how Cornish-ness survives into the future, more jobs for Cornish people would be created, less Cornish people would be excluded from high salaried jobs as they would have protection from discrimination, not to mention a new found sense of pride and confidence that would bring more to the surface the inherent and abundant creativity and inventiveness so apparent in the Cornish communities of times gone by.
Fetch the Duchy to the dock and you'll create a brand new future for Cornwall based entirely on events that occurred in the past.
Our Future is nothing but History. It just needs to be resumed and continued from the present, onwards.
Posts: 408
Posted:
22.May 2008 - 23:21
Some Buddhist you are, look at the amount of negativity in you post...
Where do you see this hate, I would say that I am pretty active in and understanding of the Cornish situation...I don't see the hate you speak of, just good honest truthful people who are getting s**t on...
Ask the men who got wrongfully arrested about forgiveness you might learn what it really means...
So you think its Ok to build 70k houses in the dilution process do you?
The mere fact that you say I am a Buddist makes you not one...
edited by: sharon, May 22, 2008 - 11:25 PM
Posts: 426
Posted:
22.May 2008 - 23:23
That isn't forgiveness it sounds more like an ultimatum or a swap. Forgiveness is not a deal, its a gift, and one that gives back many times more.
This is true I believe of groups and individuals.
Be well
Freako Mbiko
Please Visit the Wonderful Continent of Kernow and, after that, check out my blogs:
midcornwall.com
salted.net