Topic:	John Angarrack Live!
DEWGELL Posts: 91 Posted: 26.May 2008 - 12:27	Just heard that John Angarrack will be appearing LIVE on the David White show on BBC Radio (Cornwall) tomorrow, Tuesday 27th sometime after 11am. Should be interesting to hear what John manages to say before the plug is pulled! I remember years ago they started to do a live phone in with a panel of invited guests on a sunday once with Candy Halfaton, the head of social services and a chap from Redruth. The question came through from a caller about County Hall flying the Blood banner on St Georges day. Halfaton said it was a matter for the council, the other waffled and the Cornishman said that flying the cross of st george in Cornwall was akin to flying the swastika over Jerusalem! Apparently the panel and presenter actually lifted off their chairs with shock! I don't think they ever did another programme!
Allister Posts: 603 Posted: 26.May 2008 - 13:20	Quotethat flying the cross of st george in Cornwall was akin to flying the swastika over Jerusalem! What a ridiculous comment. I am awake at 4am to the terrifying undeniable truth that there is nothing I can do to stop the monster
GrahamHart Posts: 1122 Posted: 26.May 2008 - 14:35	I wrote here before I was aware that David had announced JA will be on his show tomorrow. My aplogies DEGWELL if you read my criticism of your posting. edited by: GrahamHart, May 26, 2008 - 05:31 PM ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Where there's a Negative - there's always a Positive. You just have to find it. Love your enemy - It really does piss them off.
Fulub-le-Breton Posts: 4667 Posted: 26.May 2008 - 14:54	GrahamHart QuoteShould be interesting to hear what John manages to say before the plug is pulled! They'll pull the plug before he gets on if they know he's going to be on ! TAKE THIS THIS POST DOWN DEGWELL, YOU BLOODY IDIOT !!! Yeah surely if you are concerned about the plug being pulled why draw attention to it? The Cornish Democrat The Breton Connection
P_Trembath online Posts: 1080 Posted: 26.May 2008 - 15:13	They announced it on a plug for his program this morning, so they already know about it. It is not a matter of them pulling the plug now, but how long they will let him speak for, and what questions he will be asked and topics he will be allowed to cover. Kernow Kensa! Our day will come! "Everyone has their own particular part to play. No part is too great or too small, no one is too old or too young to do something."
Fulub-le-Breton Posts: 4667 Posted: 26.May 2008 - 15:21	Ahh I see. The Cornish Democrat The Breton Connection
ThingsThatGoFlirInTheShla Posts: 604 Posted: 26.May 2008 - 15:33	Any chance of anyone recording this tomorrow? ---------- Kilgi yw ev Withnail, arbenniger a-tarow nyns yw ev! aaaa!
Allister Posts: 603 Posted: 26.May 2008 - 15:36	I would assume that'll be on BBC radio I-player. That is how I listen to the radio. I am awake at 4am to the terrifying undeniable truth that there is nothing I can do to stop the monster
Fulub-le-Breton Posts: 4667 Posted: 26.May 2008 - 15:38	Certainly need to get and keep it on the internet! The Cornish Democrat The Breton Connection
FreakoMbiko Posts: 694 Posted: 26.May 2008 - 17:13	Who is he? There is no God. There is No Soul. There is no Heaven. This is our only life; it is rare and special and precious. Nothing is important; except the happiness of me and the happiness of all others.
TheElvenLord Posts: 969 Posted: 26.May 2008 - 17:29	QuoteWhat a ridiculous comment How is it? It is the same - in my opinion. The guy who said that was correct IMO. QuoteWho is he? He is a prolific writer of Cornish Nationalist material. He wrote "Our future is history" and "Breaking the chains". At least one of his books have been Outlawed (I wonder why). TEL Everything is impossible until it is not.
GrahamHart Posts: 1122 Posted: 26.May 2008 - 17:32	It will be very interesting indeed ! David White has reviewed the book over the weekend and he is aware of it's explosive contents. I think it would be fair to say that David is fast becoming aware of the Cornish Question. He is also very much his own man. As Coady says: "We live in interesting times". Roll on tomorrow. I can't wait ! edited by: GrahamHart, May 26, 2008 - 05:41 PM ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Where there's a Negative - there's always a Positive. You just have to find it. Love your enemy - It really does piss them off.
GrahamHart Posts: 1122 Posted: 26.May 2008 - 17:49	You can listen online Here From 10am to 12 noon. I'll get it recorded FLB and put it up on the net at MySpace as soon as I can. edited by: GrahamHart, May 26, 2008 - 06:09 PM ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Where there's a Negative - there's always a Positive. You just have to find it. Love your enemy - It really does piss them off.
Allister Posts: 603 Posted: 26.May 2008 - 18:08	QuoteHow is it? It is the same - in my opinion. The guy who said that was correct IMO. The Nazi swastika symbolises something terrible, an era in our modern history that should shame us as a species. Jerusalem is the holy city of the Abrahamic religions, and specifically in this case, the Jews. What happened to those people was truly barbaric and evil. To compare the events of the Third Reich, World War two and the Holocaust to the English claim over Cornwall is far fetched, ignorant and detrimental to the Cornish cause. I am awake at 4am to the terrifying undeniable truth that there is nothing I can do to stop the monster
GrahamHart Posts: 1122 Posted: 26.May 2008 - 18:12	After it goes out tomorrow Allister, I think the contents of the interview will be far more interesting to debate , rather than a one-off comment. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Where there's a Negative - there's always a Positive. You just have to find it. Love your enemy - It really does piss them off.
CK Posts: 383 Posted: 26.May 2008 - 18:16	In some respects I agree with you Allister (its a very poor analogy in terms of scale), but in other respects John Angarrack had a point, do you think it will be acceptable to fly the Swastika in Jereusalem in 400 years time? At the end of the day the English did kill an awful lot of the Cornish a number of years ago. Personally I think the world would be far better if we learnt to live with the past after so long, at the end of the day what is resentment about something that happened 500 years ago going to achieve?
GrahamHart Posts: 1122 Posted: 26.May 2008 - 18:33	Well said CK. As awful as it was, we can't change the past, but we can change the course of our future. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Where there's a Negative - there's always a Positive. You just have to find it. Love your enemy - It really does piss them off.
Allister Posts: 603 Posted: 26.May 2008 - 18:37	QuoteAfter it goes out tomorrow Allister, I think the contents of the interview will be far more interesting to debate , rather than a one-off comment. No doubt. I am awake at 4am to the terrifying undeniable truth that there is nothing I can do to stop the monster
Allister Posts: 603 Posted: 26.May 2008 - 18:44	QuoteIn some respects I agree with you Allister (its a very poor analogy in terms of scale), but in other respects John Angarrack had a point, do you think it will be acceptable to fly the Swastika in Jereusalem in 400 years time? At the end of the day the English did kill an awful lot of the Cornish a number of years ago. Personally I think the world would be far better if we learnt to live with the past after so long, at the end of the day what is resentment about something that happened 500 years ago going to achieve? True, however the Nazi Swastika contains an extremely dark philosophy and represents one singular ideology. The CoSG does not. I am awake at 4am to the terrifying undeniable truth that there is nothing I can do to stop the monster
CK Posts: 383 Posted: 26.May 2008 - 19:02	QuoteTrue, however the Nazi Swastika contains an extremely dark philosophy and represents one singular ideology. The CoSG does not. I'm not sure I agree with that statement, Nazism was certainly about more than wiping out the Jews, which is what most people now see it as, bear in mind during the war we didn't even know the holocauset was happening. Can you see why the Cross of St George can have similar connotations to some people as the swastika does to the jews? I'm not supproting anyone here by the way, just trying to see it from both sides of the fence..
Allister Posts: 603 Posted: 26.May 2008 - 19:15	QuoteNazism was certainly about more than wiping out the Jews Of course, although it was one of Hitler's key concepts. QuoteCan you see why the Cross of St George can have similar connotations to some people as the swastika does to the jews? No. I don't think the two are in any way comparable. The only reason it is compared is to stir up anger and hatred. I don't think the CoSG should be flown from any public institution in Cornwall but if a comparison must be made then let's find something a tad more accurate. I am awake at 4am to the terrifying undeniable truth that there is nothing I can do to stop the monster
Hunlef Posts: 2092 Posted: 26.May 2008 - 19:45	Allister QuoteNazism was certainly about more than wiping out the Jews Of course, although it was one of Hitler's key concepts. QuoteCan you see why the Cross of St George can have similar connotations to some people as the swastika does to the jews? No. I don't think the two are in any way comparable. The only reason it is compared is to stir up anger and hatred. I don't think the CoSG should be flown from any public institution in Cornwall but if a comparison must be made then let's find something a tad more accurate. Before you deliver your next bromide, please spend a while improving your knowledge of Cornish and Germanic history before you dismiss any comparisons relating to genocide. 'Condemnation without investigation is ignorance' - Albert Einstein
Allister Posts: 603 Posted: 26.May 2008 - 20:34	Quotecomparisons relating to genocide What comparisons can be made between England's treatment of Cornwall and the Third Reich? I am awake at 4am to the terrifying undeniable truth that there is nothing I can do to stop the monster
FreakoMbiko Posts: 694 Posted: 26.May 2008 - 21:16	TheElvenLord QuoteWhat a ridiculous comment How is it? It is the same - in my opinion. The guy who said that was correct IMO. QuoteWho is he? He is a prolific writer of Cornish Nationalist material. He wrote "Our future is history" and "Breaking the chains". At least one of his books have been Outlawed (I wonder why). TEL Outlawed? By Who? Which book is outlawed? Thats atrocious! There is no God. There is No Soul. There is no Heaven. This is our only life; it is rare and special and precious. Nothing is important; except the happiness of me and the happiness of all others.
FreakoMbiko Posts: 694 Posted: 26.May 2008 - 21:17	AllisterCan you see why the Cross of St George can have similar connotations to some people as the swastika does to the jews? Gosh! Thats such a terrible terrible thing to say. Shame on you. There is no God. There is No Soul. There is no Heaven. This is our only life; it is rare and special and precious. Nothing is important; except the happiness of me and the happiness of all others.
moonshine Posts: 1171 Posted: 26.May 2008 - 22:11	It is the intent to "rid a filthy race" out of its homeland that is the fundamental basis of any genocide. The techniques are mere tools of fulfillment. Ransacking our colleges was one technique. Paying Germans to slit 900 Cornish throats in ten minutes was another. Referring to promoting Cornish-ness in schools as "dangerous". Putting henchmen in our churches and forcing a new language and religion down our throats was another technique. Claiming Cornish Heritage as English. Double taxing us a "foreigners" then claiming we've been English all along was a financial technique. Asking for 10% of the population to sign a petition then throwing it in the bin. Building 70,000 homes for a mostly immigrant market is a dilution technique. Acknowledging every one of the 6300 minorities on the planet except for Cornwall is a cultural technique. Failing to teach Cornish children about their Celtic heritage is an educational practice. All different expressions of the same intent.
TeamKernow Posts: 2318 Posted: 26.May 2008 - 22:43	Tibet: 50 years. Kernow: 500 years. The same process - a little further down the diversion of imperialist oppression and cultural sublimation and assimilation. A diversion that can,with collective willpower intelligence cohesion and fortitude, be re-routed and restored to its natural course. edited by: TeamKernow, May 26, 2008 - 10:45 PM
GrahamHart Posts: 1122 Posted: 26.May 2008 - 22:44	Agreed moonshine, and all of it Evil. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Where there's a Negative - there's always a Positive. You just have to find it. Love your enemy - It really does piss them off.
Hunlef Posts: 2092 Posted: 27.May 2008 - 00:30	Allister Quotecomparisons relating to genocide What comparisons can be made between England's treatment of Cornwall and the Third Reich? Need I say more after Moonshine's excellent contribution? You know so little, my friend. 'Condemnation without investigation is ignorance' - Albert Einstein
Allister Posts: 603 Posted: 27.May 2008 - 08:27	QuoteNeed I say more after Moonshine's excellent contribution? You know so little, my friend. What's with the personal remark at the end? Its unnecessary and rude. Can't we just discuss and debate and have different opinions, or is that not allowed? QuoteAgreed moonshine, and all of it Evil. Agreed. It is evil and imperialistic but it still barely compares to the Nazis. I am awake at 4am to the terrifying undeniable truth that there is nothing I can do to stop the monster
Allister Posts: 603 Posted: 27.May 2008 - 08:28	QuoteGosh! Thats such a terrible terrible thing to say. Shame on you. Freako, don't shame me, they are not my words. I am awake at 4am to the terrifying undeniable truth that there is nothing I can do to stop the monster
FreakoMbiko Posts: 694 Posted: 27.May 2008 - 08:30	Allister QuoteGosh! Thats such a terrible terrible thing to say. Shame on you. Freako, don't shame me, they are not my words. Oh my appologies Allister Shame on whoever said it! There is no God. There is No Soul. There is no Heaven. This is our only life; it is rare and special and precious. Nothing is important; except the happiness of me and the happiness of all others.
Fulub-le-Breton Posts: 4667 Posted: 27.May 2008 - 10:18	GrahamHartYou can listen online Here From 10am to 12 noon. I'll get it recorded FLB and put it up on the net at MySpace as soon as I can. edited by: GrahamHart, May 26, 2008 - 06:09 PM Sorted. The Cornish Democrat The Breton Connection
sharon Posts: 408 Posted: 27.May 2008 - 10:44	Nice one John
TGG Posts: 1119 Posted: 27.May 2008 - 10:45	Agreed. Nicely measured and presented. Also congratulations to David White for his part in making the interview happen. TGG edited by: TGG, May 27, 2008 - 10:49 AM STOP THE CORNISH GENOCIDE!- The existence of divergent views occur because the lies and deception have a more profoundly negative, and contrived, consequence for the Cornish people than for anyone else within the UK.
GrahamHart Posts: 1122 Posted: 27.May 2008 - 12:30	Ditto TGG. Now let see what comes from it on the Martin Bailie show on air NOW ! Listen in. Phone in. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Where there's a Negative - there's always a Positive. You just have to find it. Love your enemy - It really does piss them off.
TheElvenLord Posts: 969 Posted: 27.May 2008 - 13:01	To compare the events of the Third Reich, World QuoteWar two and the Holocaust to the English claim over Cornwall is far fetched, ignorant and detrimental to the Cornish cause. Hitler - Tried surpressing the Jewish - Killed the Jewish - Has a flag that they flew to symbolise them - Arrested people because they were Jewish English gov - Tried/Tries to surpress the Cornish - Have Killed the Cornish - Has a flag that symbolises them - Arrested people because they are Cornish Looks pretty much the same. I agree with you that on sclae, yes, the Reich were horrible, they were MUCH worse than the English gov., but on term of what they did, it is close. TEL Everything is impossible until it is not.
FreakoMbiko Posts: 694 Posted: 27.May 2008 - 13:10	TheElvenLord Hitler - Tried surpressing the Jewish - Killed the Jewish - Has a flag that they flew to symbolise them - Arrested people because they were Jewish English gov - Tried/Tries to surpress the Cornish - Have Killed the Cornish - Has a flag that symbolises them - Arrested people because they are Cornish I'm sitting here and I'm just dumbstruck. I'm shaking my head thinking, is this person really thinking this? To compare what had happened in Cornwall over the centuries to what happened in Nazi German is, mistaken, deluded and morally reprehesable. Shame on you. There is no God. There is No Soul. There is no Heaven. This is our only life; it is rare and special and precious. Nothing is important; except the happiness of me and the happiness of all others.
srule Posts: 93 Posted: 27.May 2008 - 13:49	i don't see a david white link on the radio cornwall, can anyone help
P_Trembath online Posts: 1080 Posted: 27.May 2008 - 13:51	FreakoMbikoTo compare what had happened in Cornwall over the centuries to what happened in Nazi German is, mistaken, deluded and morally reprehesable. Just playing devils advocate here, please explain how you arrive at such a conclusion? Is it a matter of timing, i.e. the holocaust was much more recent, or was compressed into a smaller time frame? Is it down to numbers, bear in mind that the death toll ion Cornwall following the prayer book rebellion, amounted to 11% of the entire Cornish population? Or is it a question of politics, is the belief system behind the cause of the holocaust, more reprehensible than the one behind the deaths of the Cornish? Kernow Kensa! Our day will come! "Everyone has their own particular part to play. No part is too great or too small, no one is too old or too young to do something."
TGG Posts: 1119 Posted: 27.May 2008 - 14:04	TGG {Genocide Model}Time, therefore, is a link which inversely relates the method to a common outcome and we may say that Time x Method = Same End Result (a Constant = Genocide). Also being devil's advocate. There is no direct comparison between the two cases mentioned. What is missing from the Cornish part of the equation is the "Shock & Awe". TGG For The (Real)Reason Why! STOP THE CORNISH GENOCIDE!- The existence of divergent views occur because the lies and deception have a more profoundly negative, and contrived, consequence for the Cornish people than for anyone else within the UK.
ThingsThatGoFlirInTheShla Posts: 604 Posted: 27.May 2008 - 14:06	Did anyone record this? I've tried listening again but I can't find the link to the David White show anywhere on this iPlayer edited by: ThingsThatGoFlirInTheShla, May 27, 2008 - 02:08 PM ---------- Kilgi yw ev Withnail, arbenniger a-tarow nyns yw ev! aaaa!
ThingsThatGoFlirInTheShla Posts: 604 Posted: 27.May 2008 - 14:07	Maybe another BBC cover-up. ---------- Kilgi yw ev Withnail, arbenniger a-tarow nyns yw ev! aaaa!
ThingsThatGoFlirInTheShla Posts: 604 Posted: 27.May 2008 - 14:08	Duplicate edited by: ThingsThatGoFlirInTheShla, May 27, 2008 - 02:09 PM ---------- Kilgi yw ev Withnail, arbenniger a-tarow nyns yw ev! aaaa!
TGG Posts: 1119 Posted: 27.May 2008 - 14:16	Recorded by GH. See above. TGG For The (Real)Reason Why! STOP THE CORNISH GENOCIDE!- The existence of divergent views occur because the lies and deception have a more profoundly negative, and contrived, consequence for the Cornish people than for anyone else within the UK.
ThingsThatGoFlirInTheShla Posts: 604 Posted: 27.May 2008 - 15:00	Ah, thankyou TGG and thankyou Graham. For those of you just as blind as I am... here's the recording ---------- Kilgi yw ev Withnail, arbenniger a-tarow nyns yw ev! aaaa!
gravydave Posts: 480 Posted: 27.May 2008 - 15:07	CKIn some respects I agree with you Allister (its a very poor analogy in terms of scale), but in other respects John Angarrack had a point, do you think it will be acceptable to fly the Swastika in Jereusalem in 400 years time? At the end of the day the English did kill an awful lot of the Cornish a number of years ago. Personally I think the world would be far better if we learnt to live with the past after so long, at the end of the day what is resentment about something that happened 500 years ago going to achieve? "English did kill an awful lot of the Cornish a number of years ago." Being cornish as a race had nothing to with the killing. Don't spin this one. gravydave Onan hag oll NEW CORNISH
gravydave Posts: 480 Posted: 27.May 2008 - 15:25	Is there a link to John Angarrack on the BBC? ? Onan hag oll NEW CORNISH
angofbew Posts: 984 Posted: 27.May 2008 - 16:39	How dare Allister, Gravydave and FrekoMbiko make such disgusting remarks as they have on this thread. It is all about degree, to suggest that the Murder of 10% of the Cornish in one episode is not a comparison to the Nazi holocaust is a complete travisty. If we put this in some context they might just understand. If it happened today in the UK it would mean 6 million deaths, the USA 25 million deaths, China 100 million. Just because it happened in a Small Country does not lesson the ideals behind the incident, or is the Murder of People from smaller Nations not as important?? GD you said it had nothing to do with the Cornish Race, what utter c*p. It had everything to do with it, kill off the trouble making Cornish, no more problems for the King. I honestly do not know what Planet some people are on. edited by: angofbew, May 27, 2008 - 04:55 PM*
P_Trembath online Posts: 1080 Posted: 27.May 2008 - 17:13	gravydaveIs there a link to John Angarrack on the BBC? ? Should have gone to Specsavers. Look at the top of the page Gary. Kernow Kensa! Our day will come! "Everyone has their own particular part to play. No part is too great or too small, no one is too old or too young to do something."
TheElvenLord Posts: 969 Posted: 27.May 2008 - 17:44	I cannot find the recordings on that site. Please help! TEL Everything is impossible until it is not.
GrahamHart Posts: 1122 Posted: 27.May 2008 - 18:51	It's on it's way Guys. I'm now uploading it. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Where there's a Negative - there's always a Positive. You just have to find it. Love your enemy - It really does piss them off.
Fulub-le-Breton Posts: 4667 Posted: 27.May 2008 - 19:56	ThingsThatGoFlirInTheShlaAh, thankyou TGG and thankyou Graham. For those of you just as blind as I am... here's the recording It doesn't work. I get about 10 seconds of interview then it cuts to one of Grahams songs. The Cornish Democrat The Breton Connection
FreakoMbiko Posts: 694 Posted: 27.May 2008 - 20:09	P_Trembath FreakoMbikoTo compare what had happened in Cornwall over the centuries to what happened in Nazi German is, mistaken, deluded and morally reprehesable. Just playing devils advocate here, please explain how you arrive at such a conclusion? Is it a matter of timing, i.e. the holocaust was much more recent, or was compressed into a smaller time frame? Is it down to numbers, bear in mind that the death toll ion Cornwall following the prayer book rebellion, amounted to 11% of the entire Cornish population? Or is it a question of politics, is the belief system behind the cause of the holocaust, more reprehensible than the one behind the deaths of the Cornish? The Holocaust of the Jews was the first planned industrial Genocide in history; there was extraction, displacement, and then factory death. It was not invaders killing the invaded in attepts to gain control and surpress rebellion. I don't know much about the Cornish Holocaust (Is it differnt to the Prayer Book rebelion?) but would like to learn if anyone can point some refs. If there is evdience that the Cornish Holocaust was comparable to the Holocast of The Jews, I will humbly accept my mistaken view of this. But lets assume that there was, relavant to the time and populate, a true Holocaust like the Jews, Kulacks or Rwanda, that in every sense it was of the same relative magnitude of crime and evil as these others. Even so, one cannot ignore the fact that time does and should heal wounds. That's of crucial importance. Many people in this forum instantly assume that unless I agree with them in every fact I am the enemy and anti-cornish and Pro-Royal and all that.... thats really narrow minded of you, if that is you. I am English and Cornish, I hope one day I get the chance to choose just one, and then it will be Cornish, without question. And I will be as proud as all of you who romantically cling to the idea that your all Celtic warriors fighting for a land that doesn't, and probably never did, exist in the way you romantcise it. If that is how you want to see things, cool, I have no beef, but dont take issue with me because I dont feel like you. If you want a better Cornwall for the Cornish then we are on the same side. But I think some of you here really, just love the importance you feel this phantom battle gives you. There is no battle. There is just History and Future. There is no God. There is No Soul. There is no Heaven. This is our only life; it is rare and special and precious. Nothing is important; except the happiness of me and the happiness of all others.
GrahamHart Posts: 1122 Posted: 27.May 2008 - 20:30	QuoteIt doesn't work. I get about 10 seconds of interview then it cuts to one of Grahams songs. The file is too big Phil so I uploaded a snippet to make it possible to delete. I am now splitting into three parts. Should be up within an hour or so. I'll let you know when it's done. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Where there's a Negative - there's always a Positive. You just have to find it. Love your enemy - It really does piss them off.
moonshine Posts: 1171 Posted: 27.May 2008 - 20:35	QuoteI am English and Cornish, You're an English and Cornish man who's never heard of John Angarrack, and you're in MK, and you think you're in a phantom battle with those who are only Cornish, not English who are fighting you back as romanticised Celtic Warriors, fighting over a land that doesn't, and probably never did, exist? And you want sensible answers back to your postings? You need a shrink.
Mike Posts: 2744 Posted: 27.May 2008 - 20:37	.
Kéighlán Posts: 440 Posted: 27.May 2008 - 20:41	Please visit my wonderful country of Africa. Africa is not a country it is a continent . walk with Jesus! just look out for speedboats.
FreakoMbiko Posts: 694 Posted: 27.May 2008 - 20:50	moonshine QuoteI am English and Cornish, You're an English and Cornish man who's never heard of John Angarrack, and you're in MK, and you think you're in a phantom battle with those who are only Cornish, not English who are fighting you back as romanticised Celtic Warriors, fighting over a land that doesn't, and probably never did, exist? And you want sensible answers back to your postings? You need a shrink. You need to provide answers and reasoning rather than insults. There is no God. There is No Soul. There is no Heaven. This is our only life; it is rare and special and precious. Nothing is important; except the happiness of me and the happiness of all others.
TeamKernow Posts: 2318 Posted: 27.May 2008 - 20:53	KéighlánAfrica is not a country it is a continent ...could it have got lost in the translation?...could it be one of those all too common BBC 'county' thingies? Kéighlán,how would you define the territorial status of the entity indicated by the red cross on a white background in your avatar? edited by: TeamKernow, May 27, 2008 - 08:57 PM
P_Trembath online Posts: 1080 Posted: 27.May 2008 - 21:50	FreakoMbiko The Holocaust of the Jews was the first planned industrial Genocide in history; there was extraction, displacement, and then factory death. It was not invaders killing the invaded in attepts to gain control and surpress rebellion. So it is the method of death, and the fact that it was conducted with modern industrial methods that you feel makes 1 more reprehensible than the other. But, surly large scale forced death is equally reprehensible whatever the method used. The only difference between the 2 methods of extermination were that the Nazis used their considerable organisational skills to keep the extermination of the Jews and others they wished to get rid of, most from countries that they had invaded, behind "closed doors", they kept it away from the local populace. The majority of terror inflicted was confined to those being exterminated, whereas in the case of the mass extermination off the Cornish, it was carried out in front of those who were left behind. The terror inflicted on the population was an integral part of the "operation", as in more recent similar events Rwanda for example. FreakoMbikoI don't know much about the Cornish Holocaust (Is it differnt to the Prayer Book rebelion?) but would like to learn if anyone can point some refs. If there is evdience that the Cornish Holocaust was comparable to the Holocast of The Jews, I will humbly accept my mistaken view of this. How is it possible to claim that one state engineered mass murder, or ethnic cleansing, was in any way more or less vile and reprehensible than any other. To do so, I believe, completely misses the lessons that we should all should have learnt from the Jewish holocaust. It is always wrong, it should never be repeated, it should never be forgotten. To make such a claim is surly an insult to all those who died, and survived. FreakoMbikoBut lets assume that there was, relavant to the time and populate, a true Holocaust like the Jews, Kulacks or Rwanda, that in every sense it was of the same relative magnitude of crime and evil as these others. Even so, one cannot ignore the fact that time does and should heal wounds. That's of crucial importance. It is true that Time heals, but unfortunately with the passage of time we tend to forget. To forget such events is a fast track to such events being repeated. That is surly more important. FreakoMbikoMany people in this forum instantly assume that unless I agree with them in every fact I am the enemy and anti-cornish and Pro-Royal and all that.... thats really narrow minded of you, if that is you. If everyone were to agree with each other, wouldn't this world be boring. Personally, I ask questions to learn, even if it is only what someone else thinks. I make statements to put my point of view across. The only "enemies" I have are those who refuse to debate openly, those who believe that they are right and no other opinion has any relevance. I do not believe that you are "anti-Cornish", and I do not care if you are "pro-Royal" or not, please do not commit the sin that you fear you see in others. FreakoMbikoI am English and Cornish....... As they say, that is your choice, I believe it to be wrong, and that is mine, I would prefer Cornish and British. FreakoMbiko........I hope one day I get the chance to choose just one, and then it will be Cornish, without question. And I will be as proud as all of you who romantically cling to the idea that your all Celtic warriors fighting for a land that doesn't, and probably never did, exist in the way you romantcise it. You paint a rather flowery picture. Warrior, not too keen on the sight of my own blood. "Fighting for a land that doesn't exist", your opinion, mine, fighting for a land that is repressed, and should be allowed to exist freely. FreakoMbikoIf that is how you want to see things, cool, I have no beef, but dont take issue with me because I dont feel like you. I am not taking "issue" with you, but if you post something on a public forum then you should be prepared to be questioned on it. FreakoMbikoIf you want a better Cornwall for the Cornish then we are on the same side. Cool. But can we still debate what a better Cornwall will be, and how we will achieve it? FreakoMbikoBut I think some of you here really, just love the importance you feel this phantom battle gives you. There is no battle. Unfortunately, there is, otherwise Cornwall would already be the better place we all want. FreakoMbikoThere is just History and Future. Unfortunately, the two are not mutually exclusive. Kernow Kensa! Our day will come! "Everyone has their own particular part to play. No part is too great or too small, no one is too old or too young to do something."
morgarrow Posts: 379 Posted: 28.May 2008 - 18:55	QuoteYou need to provide answers and reasoning rather than insults. Agree FreakoMbiko! Seems to be the trend these days particularly on forums. This is a public forum and anyone can look in and see the quality of political debate. Unfortunately it seems that some people don't understand the meaning of debate or are not too bothered about building up support for the Cornish movement. Maybe they're too politically immature to understand that doing a 'Mr Angry' doesn't do us any favours.
Mike Posts: 2744 Posted: 28.May 2008 - 19:58	I don't think there is any threat to any 'Cornish Movement' by criticising Freiko, if you read back through what he's been saying. Such naivity of matters Cornish, confused thinking, etc would render it impossible to believe he has anything to do with Cornish politics or even the Cornish Woman's Institute.
Hunlef Posts: 2092 Posted: 29.May 2008 - 00:30	moonshine QuoteI am English and Cornish, You're an English and Cornish man who's never heard of John Angarrack, and you're in MK, and you think you're in a phantom battle with those who are only Cornish, not English who are fighting you back as romanticised Celtic Warriors, fighting over a land that doesn't, and probably never did, exist? And you want sensible answers back to your postings? You need a shrink. I think a witch-doctor would be a more appropriate professional for this poor unfortunate to consult. Is there anyone out there in his 'Wonderful Country of Africa' who would be prepared to 'point the bone' at him to facilitate some sort of recovery? 'Condemnation without investigation is ignorance' - Albert Einstein
gravydave Posts: 480 Posted: 29.May 2008 - 01:06	I have listen to a short bit of JA-live he talks with real facts and information, so why not be leader of the pack he is what you need in your fight but he is just a writer not a politician. Why will he not lead you? is he unable? or is flawed? GD PS facebook? "storm in a tea cup" edited by: gravydave, May 29, 2008 - 01:33 AM Onan hag oll NEW CORNISH
GrahamHart Posts: 1122 Posted: 29.May 2008 - 01:20	Don't feed the Troll. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Where there's a Negative - there's always a Positive. You just have to find it. Love your enemy - It really does piss them off.
gravydave Posts: 480 Posted: 29.May 2008 - 01:39	How rude. I live in Cornwall I have as much right as anyone to post on this site. gd Onan hag oll NEW CORNISH
moonshine Posts: 1171 Posted: 29.May 2008 - 11:45	QuoteWhy will he not lead you? is he unable? or is flawed? Quotebut he is just a writer not a politician. The answer is in your question.
Nosdan Posts: 1193 Posted: 29.May 2008 - 12:11	Just because someone has researched and collated all the evidence that justifies what some of us have been saying for years, and other have been saying for years before us, Doesn't make them our leader? Do you think the next prime minister should be a historian/investigative journalist? Actually, the more i think of it, a PM whose NOT a politician makes a lot of sense. Mar vedhow avel gelvinek (as maazed as a curlew)
sharon Posts: 408 Posted: 29.May 2008 - 12:29	QuoteHow rude. I live in Cornwall I have as much right as anyone to post on this site. You don't have to live in Cornwall to post on this site. You should show respect to other posters who obviously know more than you about Cornwall and Cornish issues. (If you want to learn that is) edited by: sharon, May 29, 2008 - 01:26 PM
shrdlu Posts: 241 Posted: 29.May 2008 - 12:37	sharonYou do have to respect other posters and their knowledge and expertise on Cornwall. not bin 'ere long, av'ee maid?
sharon Posts: 408 Posted: 29.May 2008 - 13:19	shrdlu sharonYou do have to respect other posters and their knowledge and expertise on Cornwall. not bin 'ere long, av'ee maid? Here as in C24 I joined Jan 06 First time I ever came to Cornwall was 1999 I've changed previous post.... edited by: sharon, May 29, 2008 - 01:28 PM
FreakoMbiko Posts: 694 Posted: 29.May 2008 - 14:04	P_TrembathIt is true that Time heals, but unfortunately with the passage of time we tend to forget. To forget such events is a fast track to such events being repeated. That is surly more important. I think that worry is gone now, really I do. These are different times and the world is moving towards a greater unity day by day (Though I fear a class of Civilizations, that's another story). I also, and importantly, don't think any of this should be forgotten. Teach it in schools, tell all the people, absolutely. Im not saying forget, Im saying move and and make a better Cornwall. Mat There is no God. There is No Soul. There is no Heaven. This is our only life; it is rare and special and precious. Nothing is important; except the happiness of me and the happiness of all others.
P_Trembath online Posts: 1080 Posted: 29.May 2008 - 14:28	FreakoMbiko P_TrembathIt is true that Time heals, but unfortunately with the passage of time we tend to forget. To forget such events is a fast track to such events being repeated. That is surly more important. I think that worry is gone now, really I do. These are different times and the world is moving towards a greater unity day by day (Though I fear a class of Civilizations, that's another story). Unfortunately, I think you are very wrong. The times we live in are not really that different from those that came before. The fact that "we" seem to live in enlightened times, where the powers that be, in the western world, give lip service to the rights of the individual etc. We only have to look at recent events to realise how close we have been in recent years to having one group of British society despised and blamed for the evil acts of a few. It is only a very small step from such a situation to a similar one that occurred in Germany in the 30's. The unity you see is very shallow and weak. There is also to be considered the very real situation we face regarding fuel, food and water. It has been suggested, seriously, that one or more of those issues is likely to cause another global / semi global conflict, that would make the last 2 "world" wars look like a minor disagreement between friends. It is quite likely that concepts such as human rights, and even the Geneva convention would be firmly confined to the history books. FreakoMbikoI also, and importantly, don't think any of this should be forgotten. Teach it in schools, tell all the people, absolutely. I'm not saying forget, I'm saying move and and make a better Cornwall. Mat I am so glad that you agree that none of this should be forgotten. As for saying move on and make a better Cornwall, to move on, which we all want to do, you have to know where you are starting from. Kernow Kensa! Our day will come! "Everyone has their own particular part to play. No part is too great or too small, no one is too old or too young to do something."
FreakoMbiko Posts: 694 Posted: 29.May 2008 - 14:44	P_TrembathUnfortunately, I think you are very wrong. The times we live in are not really that different from those that came before. The fact that "we" seem to live in enlightened times, where the powers that be, in the western world, give lip service to the rights of the individual etc. We only have to look at recent events to realise how close we have been in recent years to having one group of British society despised and blamed for the evil acts of a few. It is only a very small step from such a situation to a similar one that occurred in Germany in the 30's. The unity you see is very shallow and weak.[/quote] I have thought about this issue lots, and totally agree its not clear cut. Maybe I just have my head in the sand, that's very possible. But I think that the greater communication access and information access we have now, will act as a stop break on any kind of runaway totalitarianism or, far more likely, autonomous hegemony. I just cant see that the kind of sequences required would ever start rolling. By the way, my optimism here is only about the Developed world. I think the developing world is going to continue to be absolutely fucked, largely by us. P_TrembathThere is also to be considered the very real situation we face regarding fuel, food and water. It has been suggested, seriously, that one or more of those issues is likely to cause another global / semi global conflict, that would make the last 2 "world" wars look like a minor disagreement between friends. It is quite likely that concepts such as human rights, and even the Geneva convention would be firmly confined to the history books. Its a scary picture; and one magnified hugely by the population explosion over the next few decades; especially in the developing world. But I think for the people of Cornwall, there is no issue relevant to any of these dire predictions that are is not relevant to the people of Europe as a whole. Mat There is no God. There is No Soul. There is no Heaven. This is our only life; it is rare and special and precious. Nothing is important; except the happiness of me and the happiness of all others.
P_Trembath online Posts: 1080 Posted: 29.May 2008 - 15:41	FreakoMbiko P_TrembathUnfortunately, I think you are very wrong. The times we live in are not really that different from those that came before. The fact that "we" seem to live in enlightened times, where the powers that be, in the western world, give lip service to the rights of the individual etc. We only have to look at recent events to realise how close we have been in recent years to having one group of British society despised and blamed for the evil acts of a few. It is only a very small step from such a situation to a similar one that occurred in Germany in the 30's. The unity you see is very shallow and weak. I have thought about this issue lots, and totally agree its not clear cut. Maybe I just have my head in the sand, that's very possible. But I think that the greater communication access and information access we have now, will act as a stop break on any kind of runaway totalitarianism or, far more likely, autonomous hegemony. I just cant see that the kind of sequences required would ever start rolling. I read somewhere once that no country in the "western world" was any more than 4 meals away from rebellion.(I might be wrong about the exact number, but it was not very large)Given the strong possibility of coming food and fuel shortages, do you really think that those in power would not start to put draconian measures in place to prevent civil unrest. If a scapegoat can be found, do you think that they would hesitate to use it. The rise of far right "political" parties throughout Europe, that is happening now, would be saying the very things that the population would want to hear. Your greater communication would be used to increase the fears of ordinary people. Unfortunately, I *can* see the required sequences. Some of the elements are already in place. FreakoMbikoBy the way, my optimism here is only about the Developed world. I think the developing world is going to continue to be absolutely fucked, largely by us. The "developed" world is just at risk as the "developing" world. At least the despots of the "developing" world are honest in their despotism FreakoMbiko P_TrembathThere is also to be considered the very real situation we face regarding fuel, food and water. It has been suggested, seriously, that one or more of those issues is likely to cause another global / semi global conflict, that would make the last 2 "world" wars look like a minor disagreement between friends. It is quite likely that concepts such as human rights, and even the Geneva convention would be firmly confined to the history books. Its a scary picture; and one magnified hugely by the population explosion over the next few decades; especially in the developing world. But I think for the people of Cornwall, there is no issue relevant to any of these dire predictions that are is not relevant to the people of Europe as a whole. Mat Agreed, and that is why events such as the aftermath of the Prayer book rebel ion should never be forgotten, or trivialized. They should all be remembered, and taught to our children, as a reminder that these things happen. and unless we are very careful, they will happen again. To get back to my original point, do you now agree with me on my take regarding ethnic cleansing, that no single event is any less reprehensible than any other? Kernow Kensa! Our day will come! "Everyone has their own particular part to play. No part is too great or too small, no one is too old or too young to do something."
FreakoMbiko Posts: 694 Posted: 30.May 2008 - 06:05	P_TrembathTo get back to my original point, do you now agree with me on my take regarding ethnic cleansing, that no single event is any less reprehensible than any other? No I don't There are many things that need to get taken into account. 1) For example, the "Cornish Holocaust" took place at a time when world wide the liberties and rights of everyone were close to null. We, as a Civilization, were just not as Civilized 450 years ago as 50 years ago. That's not really disputable, you can pick many criteria to compare and contrast and see the immense differences, eg Suffrage So that in part makes the Nazi crimes more horrific; the fact they were commited by a modern industrial "democracy". 2)There is also the mass intention of the Nazi's plans, the exterminations were planned and manitained consistently for years. It was a definite project. And the same cant be said of the "Cornish Holocaust", assuming the web refrences and wiki I have been reading are accurate. 3)The "Cornish Holocaust" was in reaction to a series of rebellions by the people of Cornwall (and Devon?). I think the people of Cornwall at the time had every right to take the fight to the English, as they did, but this fact cant be omitted when comparing it with the Holocaust of the Jews. The Jews hadn't been marching on Berlin with the aim for aggression prior to the Nazis. 4)Culprits. It strikes me that the atrocities in Cornwall were not committed by the Crown (The king was a boy) but by the Church and the Earl of Summerset and were possible because of power vacuume. The same cant be said of the Nazis; the leaders planned and initiated it themselves. 5) Method and Scale. There have been countless butcheries in England, Cornwall and the world over throught history. What happened to the Jews was radically different in Method and Scale. History is very bloody and is full of attrocities but I think most people on the planet would agree that the closer you are to the present the more evil those attricties are considered. So, I think that there are fundamental differences I must say, in "researching" the "Cornish Holocaust" today, its pretty fascinating/relevant and I can see very much why the absence of this from Cornish schools causes such complaint. It should be taught. What would you say is the best reference/history of this so I can check it out some more? Finally, in terms of Forgiveness, it seems that it was the Church who was the cause, not the wider English establishment. And the Church has apologized for this shameful act. What more do you want, other than the acceptance and teaching of this History, to be able to forgive and move on? Good debate Mat There is no God. There is No Soul. There is no Heaven. This is our only life; it is rare and special and precious. Nothing is important; except the happiness of me and the happiness of all others.
Hunlef Posts: 2092 Posted: 30.May 2008 - 08:30	And this freaky, mix-up character claims to be 'Cornish'? Cornish my arse! 'Condemnation without investigation is ignorance' - Albert Einstein
FreakoMbiko Posts: 694 Posted: 30.May 2008 - 10:04	HunlefAnd this freaky, mix-up character claims to be 'Cornish'? Cornish my arse! Hey, I think Im Cornish, I have little concern for what the "unable to think" think I am There is no God. There is No Soul. There is no Heaven. This is our only life; it is rare and special and precious. Nothing is important; except the happiness of me and the happiness of all others.
moonshine Posts: 1171 Posted: 30.May 2008 - 12:37	Two possible headlines on this weeks West Britain... 1. Cornish Historian and investigative journalist proves beyond doubt that Cornwall has never been part of England! 2. Authorities in Cornwall want less people to jump off harbour walls into the ocean. How many people reading this forum have to rush out to the newsagent to find out what went to print? I would call that an example of state controlled media. Headlines are there to sell copies of the paper right?
P_Trembath online Posts: 1080 Posted: 31.May 2008 - 01:03	FreakoMbiko P_TrembathTo get back to my original point, do you now agree with me on my take regarding ethnic cleansing, that no single event is any less reprehensible than any other? No I don't There are many things that need to get taken into account. 1) For example, the "Cornish Holocaust" took place at a time when world wide the liberties and rights of everyone were close to null. I have a fear that we are heading that way again. FreakoMbikoWe, as a Civilization, were just not as Civilized 450 years ago as 50 years ago. Death was still death, fear and terror were still fear and terror. Surly, part of the reason we are now so "civilised", is because of the reaction to such atrocities. Is a brutal murder less "wrong" when it is carried out by a Brazilian bushman in his "backyard", rather than an Oxford don in his? If we are to start "making excuses", and "justifying" atrocities on the grounds of the perpetrators being less civilised than some set standard, in this case us, then where does it end? Is the genocide in Rwanda to be excused because they were/are less civilised than us? FreakoMbikoThat's not really disputable, you can pick many criteria to compare and contrast and see the immense differences, eg Suffrage You can not be suggesting that it is less abhorrent to kill those who have no vote than those who have? It is always possible to pick differences, but the similarities should surly override any of them, they were/are all human beings. FreakoMbikoSo that in part makes the Nazi crimes more horrific; the fact they were commited by a modern industrial "democracy". I disagree, I think what horrifies most people is the fact that it is so easy to imagine themselves on one or other "sides" of such an atrocity, because it is still within "living" memory. It was committed by people like us, on people like us. But is that not somewhat selfish in outlook? The mere fact that we are able to distance ourselves from atrocious events in the past, or even by the fact that it occurred in a so called third world country, does not make the event any less "bad" FreakoMbiko2)There is also the mass intention of the Nazi's plans, the exterminations were planned and manitained consistently for years. It was a definite project. And the same cant be said of the "Cornish Holocaust", assuming the web refrences and wiki I have been reading are accurate. Again, I have to disagree. Just because one event was "less" well planned than another does not change it's effects, or lessen its abhorrence. FreakoMbiko3)The "Cornish Holocaust" was in reaction to a series of rebellions by the people of Cornwall (and Devon?). I think the people of Cornwall at the time had every right to take the fight to the English, as they did, but this fact cant be omitted when comparing it with the Holocaust of the Jews. The Jews hadn't been marching on Berlin with the aim for aggression prior to the Nazis. Firstly, due to it being more recent, we have a much better idea of the mindset of the perpetrators, it also helps that they lost or we would probably not even have heard of the holocaust. The Nazis believed that the Jews were the root cause of the problems they faced, they were blamed for the harsh treatment Germany received following their "defeat" in the first world war, and the Versailles treaty etc. Whilst it is easy for us to say that this was just Hitler and his cronies using the Jews as scapegoats for all the ills that Germany faced, the fact is that the vast majority of the German people believed it (it is unfortunate that some feel the same way now). So from a 30's/40's German perspective, the Jews had been "marching" on Berlin, they were the aggressor. FreakoMbiko4)Culprits. It strikes me that the atrocities in Cornwall were not committed by the Crown (The king was a boy) but by the Church and the Earl of Summerset and were possible because of power vacuume. The same cant be said of the Nazis; the leaders planned and initiated it themselves. Did not Hitler come to power because of a power vacuum in Germany? The crown in England at the time was the Church, (Henry VIII, "the Church is what I say it is" or something like that) The church, the earl of Somerset etc, were the English establishment, the fact that the head of that establishment was a young boy is an irrelavence. There is an argument that Hitler had very little to do with the "final solution", he, in effect, gave a problem to his cronies, his establishment, to solve, and let them get on with it. I do not see much of a difference there. FreakoMbiko5) Method and Scale. There have been countless butcheries in England, Cornwall and the world over throught history. What happened to the Jews was radically different in Method and Scale. Scale, I do not know the percentage of the worlds Jewish population that the Nazis exterminated, but following the Prayer book rebellion, the English establishment killed an estimated 11% of the Cornish population. Put that in perspective, go into an average school class of thirty pupils, and shoot 3 of them, not take them outside and do it, but do it there in front of their classmates, and then leave them there for those same classmates to bury. Method, Gassing, shooting, starving, compared to throat slitting, being hung in your own doorway, the end result is the same, death. The difference between the two, could possibly be that the Nazis did their killing, mostly, in a hands off fashion, whereas the English establishment, or those working for them, did their killing in a very hands on way, a way that they must have taken a sick pleasure in. FreakoMbikoHistory is very bloody and is full of attrocities but I think most people on the planet would agree that the closer you are to the present the more evil those attricties are considered. As I said before, the reason "modern" atrocities are considered by some to be worse, is due to the thought that "I" could have been involved. The "nearer" "I" am to such an event, the worse "I" feel. Whilst I agree that it could be argued that that is the only way to judge the "degree" of an atrocity, it is really only a judgement based on self interest. Is it not more honest to admit that any such atrocity is just that, an atrocity, and to be abhorred and reviled, and guarded against, no matter how removed we are from it. FreakoMbikoI must say, in "researching" the "Cornish Holocaust" today, its pretty fascinating/relevant and I can see very much why the absence of this from Cornish schools causes such complaint. It should be taught. We agree. FreakoMbikoWhat would you say is the best reference/history of this so I can check it out some more? I am not the best person to ask, but I would suggest you ask someone like marhak, who I am sure could give you a few pointers. FreakoMbiko Finally, in terms of Forgiveness, it seems that it was the Church who was the cause, not the wider English establishment. And the Church has apologized for this shameful act. What more do you want, other than the acceptance and teaching of this History, to be able to forgive and move on? Personally, I would have said that the church and the rest of the establishment, at the time were much the same, were each other. As for the Church apologising, I thought that it was only the Bishop of Truro, Bishop Bill, who apologised, ish, and not "the Church". For me an apology, whilst nice, is not the point, it is the acknowledgement that it was done, and why, and the acceptance that it was wrong, that is what the Church and the establishment should be giving. For with that there is less likelihood of similar happening in the future. Then I can Forgive, for until then, forgiveness is an empty gesture, in my opinion. FreakoMbikoGood debate Mat I try. Kernow Kensa! Our day will come! "Everyone has their own particular part to play. No part is too great or too small, no one is too old or too young to do something."