Posts: 1405
Posted:
30.Jul 2004 - 22:00
Seems like us Cornish folk are paying what I like to call the tourist tax. By this I mean the higher water rates and council tax we pay for what we are often told is the privillege of living in the most beautiful part of the country. OK I agree with the last part which is why I'm still here.
So where does this extra money go? Well the water rates is obviously to keep our beaches clean. But who are we actually cleaning up after? Well I suspect it is the horde of tourists who visit us for 3 months of the year. This I don't have a huge problem with but why we subsidise them I don't understand. The poorest region in the country subsidising the more affluent, bizarre!
So who benefits from this arrangement? Well it seems to me it is those involved in the tourist industry. The very same who charge us artificially high prices for our food, parking and outings 3 months of the year. Double whammy!
So what about the high council tax? Well I suspect a fair proportion of this goes on promoting Cornwall as a tourist destination and beautifying it to make it fit for all our summer visitors. Hmm, who benifits from this.
It's not that I'm against tourism per se, it's just I think it would be nice if maybe the tourists and those running the tourist trade did a little more to subsidise it.
End of rant.
Posts: 567
Posted:
31.Jul 2004 - 09:02
Posts: 1405
Posted:
31.Jul 2004 - 22:44
Surely it should be the tourists or those in the industry paying the tourist tax
Posts: 2509
Posted:
31.Jul 2004 - 23:29
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Posted:
2.Aug 2004 - 16:48
It is a difficult one but I certainly think it is unfair that we pay higher council tax because so many people visit here.
I think we should tax dog owners - a dog tax if you like...
Posts: 107
Posted:
5.Aug 2004 - 11:55
I would assume there is already some type of taxation of holiday accomodation, no doubt cottages etc. would come under the council tax and static caravan sites would in some way be taxed in accordane with the type and number of accomodaion units - I don't know, does anyone? If not then they should be, but we have to be careful taxes are not levied at a level that would make it uneconomical as already the cost of holiday accomodation is very high.
Posts: 107
Posted:
5.Aug 2004 - 12:00
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Posted:
5.Aug 2004 - 12:09
Posts: 567
Posted:
5.Aug 2004 - 22:44
Posts: 789
Posted:
8.Aug 2004 - 07:23
Bring back dog licences and start registration for cats,with a maximum of 2 cats at one house,[ there's 14 cats in 3 houses near my brothers home, PS: he has 3] Dob in someone who doesn't clean up after there dog
Make pet owners be responsible. The dog licence was 7/6p wasn't it?and somehow changing it was put in the too hard basket. As for tourism, surely locals get something out of it, many work in the industry don't they? getting a wage. If the money is going out of the county, it's because someone outside was motivated to set on a tourist project. Seems there's too many sitting back moaning about this & that, but not willing to do anything about.
Posts: 1405
Posted:
8.Aug 2004 - 12:04
Many locals do get something out of tourism - possibly the lowest wages in the UK! To then ask these people to subsidise their employers endevours is a little cheeky I think. Also there are many who are not involved in the tourist industry.
My point is the money made through tourism that we all help generate is not equally distributed back into the community.
The other point that Mike makes is lots of the profits go to National companies e.g. Tescos. Tourists use the same supermarkets and petrol stations they do at home. Thats what we mean by money going out of the county not any kind of entrepaneureal spirit. Then again I guess there are plenty of out of county holiday home owners (not to mentinon second home owners) who we are subsidising to buy a new Range Rover every year!
Posts: 567
Posted:
16.Aug 2004 - 18:33
I think there should be higher tax on income from buy-to-let properties. It'll take some bite out of the housing boom. Mrs Troll and I are about to shell out almost 10k a year for a little shoe box. This is considered by most to be a bargain!
Posts: 1405
Posted:
1.Dec 2004 - 14:16
I know a fair few hotel/b&b owners, beach shop and cafe owners and most of them do not originate from down here. Seems like another example of us sponsoring wealthy "blow ins"!
Posts: 16
Posted:
1.Dec 2004 - 15:00
Posts: 2305
Posted:
1.Dec 2004 - 22:19
[whinge whine] " We desreve special status 'cos we were born here. We deserve to run Cornwall and impose our views on everyone else due to us having lived here all our lives. All you nasty people who come here for holidays, buy up our homes, create jobs and don't give us Cornish people wages above the market value are so nasty!!! We deserve special treatment, we deserve power and influence, we deserve jobs with unfeasble wages. But don't ask us to do anything to achieve this, we deserve it, just like Prince Wingnut deserves to be given Cornwall as a plaything, due to our being born".[/whinge whine]
Honestly!!
If you don't want second homes there; don't sell your houses to anyone other than the Cornish. If you want better paying jobs; start your own business. If you want an influence over Cornish matters; join a real political party and get elected. Stop thinking that if you moan enough people will start voting for MK in droves.
Above all; stop thinking you can drag the rest of the UK down to your level so you can compete on a more level playing field.
End of rant.
Posts: 1405
Posted:
1.Dec 2004 - 22:46
This thread is about equality - i.e. why do we (the poorest county in England) pay the highest water rates and some of the higest council taxes in the country. Not exactly fair but maybe we live in such as nice part of the coutry etc etc
What makes it completely unfair is that we have the highest water rates in the country because we have to deal with the influx of tourists from the rest of the country who have lower water rates.
Why do we have high council tax - to provide lots of tourist information and build things like toilets by the beach for guess who, tourists.
As the majority of us don't actually see any money from the tourist industy please excuse us for not being particularly grateful for having to subsidise it.
And you got that the wrong way round - build us a level playing field first then we might have a chance.
Your naivety is almost touching!
Who said anything about higher than average wages - do you know what a graduate salary is in Cornwall? No because it doesn't exist, there aren't any graduate jobs here. So don't bang on about how you worked to better yourself blah, blah, blah.
BTW what does 'unfeasble' mean?
Posts: 2509
Posted:
1.Dec 2004 - 22:52
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Posted:
1.Dec 2004 - 23:19
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Posted:
1.Dec 2004 - 23:34
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Posted:
2.Dec 2004 - 02:47
So yes, I will agree that Cornwall does pay slightly more for its water. But have you noticed the shape of Cornwall? Not condusive to cheap water is it? Oh, and did you forget that it's also the warmest part of the country, so the resevoirs lose more ? Oh and did you forget that the tourists pay water rates as part of the cost of their holiday accommodation? Oh, and did you think that there are no water rates paid on second homes?
And it wasn't me that dragged second homes and low wages into this debate now was it?
God.. what a bunch of whiners you Cornish are! :P
Posts: 21
Posted:
2.Dec 2004 - 08:20
I saw a comment by Chris: "That's partly true but it seems wrong that the money that tourists bring into the region goes into the pockets of those involved in the tourist industry. This profit remains in private hands and the rest of us don't see it yet we help pay for what attracts them"
I appreciate your comments and point of view,but what is wrong with profits going into the pockets of those involved in the tourist industry? Isn't that what free enterprise is all about?
Chris also wrote: "This profit remains in private hands and the rest of us don't see it yet we help pay for what attracts them"
As a resident you may (as we found out earlier) pay slightly more in water rates than other locations, but I can tell you this much, and speaking from personal experience, shops, restaurants and other 'tourist' places pay a lot more in terms of rates than residents do.
What do you expect to see? A proportion of the hard-earned profits of the tourist places?
Best Regards
Heyl John.
Posts: 21
Posted:
2.Dec 2004 - 10:03
See my post above. Tourist type businesses do subsidise it, in the form of higher rates (council and water).
Heyl John
Posts: 21
Posted:
2.Dec 2004 - 13:24
Last sequential posting from me.. definitely!
When I re-read the postings from Chris it finally clicked. It's not a matter of locals paying or subsidising tourists at all, it looks more like a case of green with envy with those who are more wealthy than him...
Chris wrote: "I know a fair few hotel/b&b owners, beach shop and cafe owners and most of them do not originate from down here. Seems like another example of us sponsoring wealthy "blow ins"!"
And again: "Then again I guess there are plenty of out of county holiday home owners (not to mentinon second home owners) who we are subsidising to buy a new Range Rover every year! "
So some people who run a local business are not locally born or do not "originate from down here" So what? If they took the gamble of opening a business (and it is a gamble I can tell you), what does it matter where they are from?
Heyl John
Posts: 1405
Posted:
2.Dec 2004 - 14:37
Yes I am jealous of anyone who can afford to buy a house in Cornwall. By afford I mean really afford as opposed to get a mortgage that will cripple you when interest rates go up.
In case you didn't know Cornwall is the poorest county in England so I don't think it's just me who is a little bitter about being disinherited by those fortunate (in financial terms) to have been born a few years before myself and in a different part of the country.
And excuse us for being less than grateful for the scraps off the table of the tourist industry that we all subsidise.
For the record I don't object to anyone from anywhere coming to Cornwall and starting a business, in fact I welcome it. What I do object to is the feeling that we are being bought up and have to make way for the new Cornwall - a haven for well off retired folk, foodies and golfing/gallery holidays.
Posts: 567
Posted:
2.Dec 2004 - 18:47
Posts: 567
Posted:
2.Dec 2004 - 18:49
Who said anything about higher than average wages - do you know what a graduate salary is in Cornwall? No because it doesn't exist, there aren't any graduate jobs here. So don't bang on about how you worked to better yourself blah, blah, blah. [/quote]
Teachers, Doctors, Nurses, beancounters, soliciters?
Posts: 1405
Posted:
2.Dec 2004 - 19:48
So if hotels pay their fair share then how comes we still pay the highest water rates in the country?
I can't see how it can be argued that the poorest county in England pays the highest water rates in the country. It seems fair that all rates and taxes should be equal accross the country
These are usually referred to as the professions, a common interpretation of graduate jobs is a job that requires a degree but not in a specific subject. You will find very few of these in Cornwall.
And don't you mean slissitters!
Posts: 2305
Posted:
2.Dec 2004 - 20:35
Teachers, Doctors, Nurses, beancounters, soliciters?[/quote]
I wish you whingers would read!
So by inference is Chris not asking for the tourist industry to pay the poor, unable to better themselves, downtrodden, Cornish, wages above the value of their labour? After all, the Cornish have to exist on crumbs from their masters table. There is no danger of them improving their station in life, and what with the turnip industry in the doldrums, what else can they do but wait at tables?
Posts: 567
Posted:
2.Dec 2004 - 21:50
I've been like it all day...
You'd be surprised how hard it can be to work in IT when you loose the ability to type.
Posts: 2509
Posted:
2.Dec 2004 - 23:19
Posts: 789
Posted:
2.Dec 2004 - 23:59
The fact that outsiders need to be brought in because the locals won't do it, perhaps its relevant to the cornish who moan because others open businesses that they can't be bothered to do. Look at the other posting, highest water rates highest everything, does anyone know Why? has anyone tried to find out why? you all need the tourists, so perhaps that's why you pay higher everything, to supply for their needs. Cornwall is beautiful, enjoy it, or get out of there. I live in the country, and we have to pay more for certain things, it's worth it, to live here, no point in moaning, there's no way I'd move.
Posts: 2305
Posted:
3.Dec 2004 - 04:53
Posts: 21
Posted:
3.Dec 2004 - 05:57
Excuse me as well. I don't think you know enough about the tourist industry to be honest. You want to check out what commercial water and council rates are before you make these assertions about the public subsidising the industry. I run a business in Cornwall, and I can tell you the that what we pay to the local council is horrendous. Even rubbish bags have to be paid for (orange bags at a quid a go) or rubbish is not taken away, and thats on top of the high council rates as well.
No one is subsidising me I can tell you, in fact you could argue that the thousands of Pounds I pay each year to the Council is subsidising everyone else. It works both ways.
As for the "Scraps off the table" quote, I really don't understand this at all. I was brought up in life to never expect something for nothing. If I wanted something I went out and earnt enough to pay for it. I didn't sit back and moan and whinge about what I couldn't get.
If "scraps off the table" is what you think you are getting, then go out there and change it.
My Wife and I worked our arse off to get enough money to start our business. I took a second job gardening and then delivering takeaway food. My wife did domestic work and ironing and at one stage she had 3 jobs. Eventually we managed to get enough cash to start the business.
So we all have 3 choices in life.
1) Whinge and moan about unfair life is
2) Accept your lot in life and be content
3) Get off your arse and work damn hard to make things change
If you choose 3) good luck to you, and if you want it bad enough you'll succeed.
Best Regards
Heyl John
Posts: 1405
Posted:
3.Dec 2004 - 08:56
I still think that in Cornwall a porportion of our rates go on subsidising the infra-structure that supports tourism.
Also for your information I do know a little bit about hard work. Less than 2 years ago I was doing a full time contract based in Devon, running my own company and finishing my second degree (for which I got a first).
Stroppy - is this going to be your retort to every issue - 'whinging poms'! Is that what the poll tax protesters were, is that what the anti hunt lobby were, is that what the democrats in the US were.
Making a point about what you consider an injustice is not whinging. In a world that is giving in to apathy I think more people need to speak their mind.
Diane - I think you are having a different discussion. Yes there are jobs here aswell that nobody wants to do. We have Eastern Europeans working in the fields whilst some locals sit on there arses watching daytime TV and claiming benifits. That's not the argument.
Posts: 21
Posted:
3.Dec 2004 - 09:13
Good to see you are a hard working chap then. Even if there was a bit of subsidising going on, it affects businesses as much as private individuals, as per my last post on Council business rates.
I think the harsh reality is that without tourism Cornwall would be a very different place indeed. Take a walk around Newquay for example in the winter to see what I mean. Apart from weekends it a desolate place, and a good example of what the place is like without tourists.
Like it or not, it seems that tourism sustains Cornwall and without it, things would, I fear, be a lot lot worse.
Let's not forget however that improvements made to public services and infrastructure to cater for additional people in the holiday season, are also used by local people as well, so it's not all in the tourists favour.
As for a tourist tax, that was mentioned in previous posts, I doubt this would be workable. Businesses have a hard time making a go of it as it is (the summer is a very very short season, and the rest of the year can be dead. However if a tax was imposed on tourist type business, I fear that it would just mean that prices in bars and restaurants would rise, and that would affect not just tourists but locals as well.
Best Regards
Heyl John
Posts: 789
Posted:
3.Dec 2004 - 23:36
It may be different but it seemed relevant to me at the time of posting, as I believe there are some Eastern Europeans working in Cornish fields. Anyway how come people can keep claiming benefits, when there's jobs avaible? Surely there's a cut off time, sooner or later the claimer must take a job that's available?
Posts: 2305
Posted:
4.Dec 2004 - 00:04
Nope, it'll only be my point when I see some whinging!
I call as I see. Examining the facts of the case as you presented them, I saw you have little justification for your gripes.The facts of the case are; that Cornwall relies on the tourist industry, that tourists and the industry pay their share of the costs, that Cornwall's geography/geology is not condusive to having cheap water, and that those who don't want to work for "scraps from the tourists tables" best pull their socks up and work.
So all told, I think your case falls flat.
So stop winging!
Posts: 567
Posted:
4.Dec 2004 - 11:21
Failing that they can clean the streets of vandalism, clean the beaches as a condition of claiming benefit. There are many things needing to be done in the community. Given the choice of being poor and doing nothing and being slightly less poor and working 40 hours a week for not much more, I think many would go for the former at our expense.
Posts: 2305
Posted:
6.Dec 2004 - 05:25
Posts: 1405
Posted:
6.Dec 2004 - 12:32
Obiously this analogy is a slight exageration but have you ever thought how those servicing the tourist industry in countries like Kenya and Jamaica feel when they have to look at wealthy westeners spending there monthly salary on a meal.
I suppose is the answer!
As for water rates - why should we pay more for something that benefits the whole country. We pay the same road tax here as people in London, yet have no motorways why can't this be the same for water.