Topic:	North African Cornish
morgarrow Posts: 379 Posted: 27.Jul 2005 - 21:42	350 years ago "...the justices of Cornwall complained to the Lord Lieutenant that in one year the Turks had taken no less than a thousand Cornish Mariners, while Looe alone, in the ten days before the letter was written, had lost 80 men." [quote from St Keverne Local History Society pages] Does this mean we have a Cornish diaspora in North Africa? Interesting in terms of some of the debates that have been going on in these forums?? :wink:
Ian Posts: 334 Posted: 27.Jul 2005 - 22:02	It seems that many of the captured Cornish along with others were taken for ransom or slavery and were generally well treated and some even became domestic slaves and converted to Islam and prospered which wouldn't please C'Intifada. At that time quite a number of those people taken by the North African raiders would have been monoglot Cornish speakers. Interesting thought.
Joe Posts: 785 Posted: 27.Jul 2005 - 22:29	Obviously Ian has never read a book on the subject called White Gold. So being taken from your home forcibly and made to work, or even becoming a domestic servant, is akin to being 'generally well treated'? Being taken into slavery, Ian, is not what I would call well treated. Perhaps Ian would like to go to North Africa for a working holiday with no wages and see if he finds the experience so good he'll convert to Islam and prosper.
Abieuan Posts: 272 Posted: 27.Jul 2005 - 23:21	I haven't read the book either, but i'd guess they all died grim deaths in the hands of the Islamisits. On an historical note, however, Saint Patrick (of Ireland), was not Irish. He was a Strathclyde Briton captured by an Irish raiding party as a boy. He "did OK". A Christian going into north Africa at that time would have had a rougher ride.
Ian Posts: 334 Posted: 28.Jul 2005 - 01:14	Quote but i'd guess they all died grim deaths in the hands of the Islamisits I wouldn't know Abieuan but if you're that Islam phobic then you'll want to believe they all died. Neither being tortured and burned to death by the "Christian" Inquisition or being kidnapped by "Muslim" corsairs was on my birthday wish list! I have heard of "White Gold" and am aware that some or even many were taken from their homeland, maybe tortured, eviscerated, worked to death in the galleys or ashore, suffered crucifixion or impaling, but it didn't happen to all. No doubt the "Christian" propaganda against Islam and vice-versa at the time was as vociferous as it is currently. Revolting things were done to people in both Christian and Muslim countries - I don't follow either doctrines, but one culture didn't have a monopoly over another when it came to treating people in bestial ways at times.
Ian Posts: 334 Posted: 28.Jul 2005 - 08:52	Quote not that their own people are chopping people's heads off. In the historiacal context I was speaking in An Gof or Flamank might not think English axes less painful on the neck than one used by the Moors. In fact after the executioner had finished with his initial ritual they would have been glad to have the pain ended by such method. As I said one culture doesn't have a monopoly over another when it came to treating people in bestial ways at times. What's the difference in blowing someone or their family up with bomb dropped from a plane or one carried in a rucksack - I condemn them both.
chris Posts: 1405 Posted: 28.Jul 2005 - 09:25	Just a warning - I'll be removing about half the messages from this thread as I am very, very bored of eveything on this board descending into being about islam. So don't bother adding anything if it is in this vein as you'll be wasting your time! BTW, I think you'll find 'Guest' is Cornishintifada!
fancyabrew Posts: 1362 Posted: 28.Jul 2005 - 09:33	Quote BTW, I think you'll find 'Guest' is Cornishintifada! No never, who'd have thought it
Anonymous Unregistered User Posted: 28.Jul 2005 - 17:39	Whilst travelling in Morocco I visited an amazing palace suite that was built by slave labour captured by the Corsairs. Possibly many of these actually came from Cornwall. Also whilst I was there I had a conversation with a morroccan lad who was convinced I was eqyptian because of my dark colouring (totally Cornish of course!). Interestingly I have seen a genetic study which places the Cornish closer to morroccan berbers than to east anglian populations. We're a small world aren't we!
Ian Posts: 334 Posted: 28.Jul 2005 - 18:44	Fine with me chris_I - I don't know how I got pulled so easily into responding to Mr Intifada. Apologies Abieuan. Perhaps a reseacher might one day feel that this historical link with North Africa from the days when the Corsairs raided our coast would be an interesting topic.
Anonymous Unregistered User Posted: 28.Jul 2005 - 20:06	North African pirates abducted and enslaved more than 1 million Europeans between 1530 and 1780 in a series of raids which depopulated coastal towns from Sicily to Cornwall, according to new research. http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/print.asp?ID=1604
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troll Posts: 567 Posted: 13.Aug 2005 - 13:04	Even for Spam this is bizare!
Pastymaniac Posts: 72 Posted: 22.Aug 2006 - 18:57	"Interestingly I have seen a genetic study which places the Cornish closer to morroccan berbers than to east anglian populations. We're a small world aren't we!" Well a lot of raping an pilaging was done by Spaniards during the Armada era, which is one reason why there are a lot of dark-skinned Cornish. Given that Spain was ruled for 800 years by the Moors (eg Moroccans) that could explain the Berber blood - although I think the Arabs, not the Berbers did most of the ruling in Spain. I remember seeing a Moroccan with pale skin, orange hair and freckles in a souk in Marakesh about 10 years ago, so maybe he was one of the desendants of the Cornish slaves? Rich http://www.thepasty.com
angofbew Posts: 984 Posted: 22.Aug 2006 - 20:31	Quote Well a lot of raping an pilaging was done by Spaniards during the Armada era, which is one reason why there are a lot of dark-skinned Cornish ummm sorry, not true. this is one of those popular myths. Names like Jose and Pascoe were said to come from this time. Also not true as both names were recorded prior to these events.
Pastymaniac Posts: 72 Posted: 22.Aug 2006 - 20:50	Well, there are raiding parties on record around this period and afterwards and raping was a standard part of pillaging so it would be surprising if it didn't happen. I don't know if there's any evidence either way about whether this is the reason a lot of Cornish people are dark-skinned, though. But I did know quite a few girls who looked Spanish enough to fool Spaniards, though, when I was younger. Rich http://www.thepasty.com
angofbew Posts: 984 Posted: 22.Aug 2006 - 20:53	You can always tell a good Cornish Maid, shes about the size of three Spanish Girls across the beam.
Coady Posts: 2107 Posted: 23.Aug 2006 - 00:57	I always suspected that, while the men of Mousehole and Penzance ran away, their womenfolk rowed or swam out to the Armada ships for a bit of R+R. Seriously, though, the compact, dark swarthy Cornish type that crops up regularly bears little resemblance to the tall pale Celts as described by various ancient writers.. I wonder if they are descendants of a people who inhabited Cornwall BEFORE the Celts (or celtic influence). People who moved north from the mediterranean area as the ice receded after the last Ice Age, up to 9000 years before the Celts.....??? Perhaps genetic studies will tell us one day. Graham
Coady Posts: 2107 Posted: 23.Aug 2006 - 01:05	..Going back to the thread, very interesting subject, more please?
Diane Posts: 789 Posted: 23.Aug 2006 - 01:52	Quote ummm sorry, not true. this is one of those popular myths. Names like Jose and Pascoe were said to come from this time. Also not true as both names were recorded prior to these events. What about the name Bennetto?
Coady Posts: 2107 Posted: 23.Aug 2006 - 02:03	In some areas of Cornwall, German, Italian, Polish, Ukrainians and other nationalities stayed on after ww2, St Just area is typical, with its Kautes, Ongaros, Urbanskis, Cillos, Pastuchs etc...perhaps thats where Benetto came in?
angofbew Posts: 984 Posted: 23.Aug 2006 - 09:38	Diane, this is off the top of my head, so I am not 100% sure. Bennetto, o ending as in Pasco, Kitto, Jago, it is the Cornish equivilant of s. Therefore the name is most probably Bennetts in English.
FlammNew Posts: 1814 Posted: 23.Aug 2006 - 10:39	You're right about the plurals, angofbew. Pasco: children born around Easter time. Kitto: children of Kit (pet form of Christopher). Benetto is, I think, derived from a pet form of Benedict.
Joe Posts: 785 Posted: 23.Aug 2006 - 13:27	What about Cornetto?
fancyabrew Posts: 1362 Posted: 23.Aug 2006 - 13:36	I've been stopped and asked directions on numerous occasions whilst in both Madrid and Barcelona, being mistaken for Spanish. The misses is always calling me a Spaniard.
fancyabrew Posts: 1362 Posted: 23.Aug 2006 - 13:38	Quote What about Cornetto? Choclate or Strawberry? Anyway don't be so bleedy stupid thats Italian!
angofbew Posts: 984 Posted: 23.Aug 2006 - 17:18	Yeah your right Flamm, now you said it, I remember. As far as I am aware, present thought is that the Celts are the original Inhabitants of Europe. I suppose we can all go back to that Little Woman in Africa who is the Granny of all Humans. I am not sure if the dark appearance of Cornish Folk really has any significance to Celtic Grouping. The Celts were a Linguistic and Socal grouping, not ever stated as a Race. Originaly called Keltoi by the Greeks. They never called themselves Celts, as i have said before. They would of gone by their Tribal names, Cornwall - Cornovii is one suggestion for our line. I do not think we will ever know the truth about it. Celtic today is still a name we use to describe our Linguistic Group, and it's as good as any. So lets not get too caught up with Celtic and what it meant Historically so much.
Coady Posts: 2107 Posted: 23.Aug 2006 - 17:54	You're right Angof, I expect there'll be a NEW theory before long. I DO look forward to more and better DNA research, though, as that might 'add more bits to the jigsaw' Reminds me of the Jethro story, where a female sex researcher was telling Denzil Penberthy that her research had shown that the best 'eqipped' men were American Indians, and the best lovers were Cornishmen. Denzil then introduced himself as "Tonto Trevaskis"..........
angofbew Posts: 984 Posted: 23.Aug 2006 - 18:28	Talking of DNA research, did anyone see the Programm to do with that and Native Americans. Apparently there is a lot of European DNA in their Populace, which now disproves the Theory that they all came via a land bridge form Asia. They now reckon that about 14000 years ago, People from Europe travelled along the edge of the Ice during the Ice Age. Sounds feasible to me.
Coady Posts: 2107 Posted: 23.Aug 2006 - 18:34	Well, there's also a theory that the vikings made it to the N American continent.......which takes us back to raping and pillaging........(Pastymaniac's fave subject!)
Diane Posts: 789 Posted: 24.Aug 2006 - 00:57	I think Bennetto goes back further than WW11, Yes many Italians, and Poles came to St Just, most worked in Geevor and married local girls. Many are good friends fo mine. When I moved to Australia, an Italian friend said, how can you leave your home? I said, You did! but St Just was home to him by that time. One of the Kautes was drummer in our band in the 60s.