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St. Piran's flag flying illegal

nige999 Posted: 27.07.2006, 14:31



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Soz for going a bit off topic.

To return to the original topic, if any other ethnic group in the UK was not allowed to fly their flag there would be uproar !

Rastas in Brixton being hassled by the local council for wearing big wooly hats in the colours of the Jamaican flag ??????

Purely and simply, this ruling is racist.

Should be reported to the police who are duty bound to deal with all complaints of racism, especially one as well documented as this one.
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Masterclass Posted: 27.07.2006, 14:36



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"He went to manage Galatasaray in Turkey, and again managed to court controversy with local issues - nearly sparking a riot after placing a large Galatasaray flag into the centre circle of the pitch of hated rivals Fenerbahce after Galatasaray had beaten them in the Turkish Cup final. The iconic image of the victor planting the flag drew comparisons with Turkish hero Ulubatli Hasan, who was killed as he planted the Ottoman flag at the end of the Siege of Constantinople. This earned Souness the nickname 'Ulubatli Souness'."
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Fulub-le-Breton Posted: 27.07.2006, 15:37

Fulub-le-Breton

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An inspired letter:

Yvette Cooper M.P.
Minister for Planning
House of Commons
London
SW1A 0AA


Request for Information Under the Freedom of Information Act

Dear Ms Cooper

I am concerned by the reports in the local press (Western Morning News, 26 July 2006) of your decision requiring those wishing to fly the Cornish flag, the Cross of St Piran, to first obtain planning permission.

As you will no doubt be aware, this flag, a symbol for Cornish people the World over, (in contrast to the new county flag of Devon that was invented by the BBC a couple of years ago) was flown at the Battle of Agincourt in 1415 by Cornish longbowmen and is far older than most of the flags which you have decided do not require similar planning permission before they can be displayed on public buildings and private properties.

The flag of St Piran, symbolic of Cornish national identity for centuries, is apparently being treated in a different manner from those representing other national identities and I would like you to explain precisely why that is the case. In addition, I would be most grateful if you would answer the following supplementary questions:

1) What documentation or other evidence can you produce to support your decision not to include the Cross of St Piran in the list of flags that can be flown without planning permission?

2) With which regional and local authorities did you consult before taking your decision ? If you did not consult local councils, please give your reasons why not. If you did receive input from local authorities, please supply copies of correspondence.

3) Bearing in mind the Report of the Royal Commission on the Constitution, published in 1973 (known as the Kilbrandon Report) which affirms that Cornwall is a duchy and not a county, your decision not to include the Cornish flag in your list seemingly denudes the Duke of Cornwall and his Duchy of their constitutional status whilst at the same time it diminishes the special relationship of Cornish people with the heir to the throne. Did you seek the advice of the Duke of Cornwall, or a representative of the Duchy of Cornwall, before reaching your decision not to include the Cornish flag on your list, if not, why not? If you did receive advice from the Duke of Cornwall, or his representative, what was it?

4) What is the legal definition of "national" to which you referred when compiling your list of "national" flags that do not require planning permission?

5) Please supply a list of all national flags, in your updated list of flags, which have caselaw precedent.

I look forward to hearing from you in twenty working days.

Yours sincerely
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fooboo Posted: 27.07.2006, 19:01

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I hung my St. Piran from the window of my room at Uni. in Wales. I didn't have any problems.
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fooboo Posted: 27.07.2006, 19:02

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Oops just realised I was talking about stuff on page one so it's out of context here :P
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abednego Posted: 27.07.2006, 23:46



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What is the source of the 1415 date, please?
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xxxxxx Posted: 28.07.2006, 04:36



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QuoteP.S. If you get taken to court Freekernow and they fine you, I will gladly send you £20 to help with the cost of the fine. Best I can do to support you I am afraid.

I'm good for a few quid too Mike.

QuoteIf you mean abuse from the Welsh then I think it is because they did not know what the flag represents
Don't get suckered Nige...

Quote
To return to the original topic, if any other ethnic group in the UK was not allowed to fly their flag there would be uproar !
So are you saying that this law is only being used in Cornwall?

One of the problems that could be faced if unrestriced flags, posters, and banners were to be allowed?
http://hammeroftruth.com/images/articles/2006/07/caution_everyone_in_this_neighborhood_is_retarded.jpg
QuoteThe sign targeted an autistic neighborhood boy, Colton Heaton, whom police say has wandered uninvited into several homes, eating food and rifling through possessions.

Kallie and Darren Galbraith, who posted the sign, also claim Heaton hit their 10-year-old daughter in the knee and elbow with rocks last fall, Nephi Police Chief Chad Bowles said.

Colton Heaton, who is autistic and has other disabilities, functions at the same level as a child age four or five, his mother Carrie Heaton said.

http://kutv.com/local/local_story_203211449.html


"Colton Heaton"? That's just cruel....
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nige999 Posted: 28.07.2006, 10:09



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QuoteDon't get suckered Nige...



?
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cledry_maid Posted: 28.07.2006, 10:19



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QuoteIf you mean abuse from the Welsh then I think it is because they did not know what the flag represents


I think you're probably right but no-one came and asked us what it was. If they had we'd have been glad to explain a) what it was and b) why we had it flying in the first place. One woman took to comng past the tent at 6am and shouting 'This is Wales!' at us. Daft bat icon_smile
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freekernow Posted: 28.07.2006, 17:44



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Thankyou one and all for your support. I have literally had hundreds of emails offering financial and other help. I will not take any money. I will settle with any fines if I ever pay them myself. I would sooner go inside for a few days on a non-payment of fine warrant ! I was also very pleased to note that this matter has been drawn to the attention of our Welsh Cousins who have also offered their support.
God Bless you all !
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freekernow Posted: 28.07.2006, 21:08



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One of many hundreds of email letters to Yvette 'second homes are not a problem'* Cooper - Minister for Planning (*her words in a recent press announcement covered in the Western Morning News):

Yvette Cooper MP
Minister for Planning
House of Commons
London SW1A 0AA


Dear Minister,
With reference to your reported decision not to include the Cornish
flag
of St Piran in your list of flags which may be flown without planning
permission.

It seems that you are totally out of touch with your colleague the
Secretary
of State for Culture, Media and Sport ,and the involvement of that
Secretary's Department in the recent bid by your Government for the
Cornwall
and West Devon Mining Landscape to be included on the World Heritage
List.

Page 44 of the 237 page official publication dealing with the
Nomination
states the following:

" In the late twentieth century, the industrial cultural heritage of
rugby,
choirs and dialect merged with the revival of other cultural traditions
such
as Celtic music and dance, and the Cornish language itself, and together
they now underpin a vibrant, dynamic and changing cultural identity.
Perhaps
the most visible sign of this development is the flag of St Piran, the
patron saint of Cornish tinners, which is in widespread use. The flag -
a
white cross on a black background -symbolises the tin metal set in a
black
background of charcoal ashes and represents contemporary Cornish pride
in a
sense of identity and inheritance.
The closure of South Crofty Mine. 1998. The flag of St Piran, the patron
saint of Cornish tinners, is a symbol that unites the Cornish in
Cornwall;
and with the global diaspora of people of Cornish descent.
St Piran's flag is also unfurled at events in North America and South
Australia connected with a renewed sense of trans-national Cornishness.
This
reinvigorated global sense of Cornishness influences contemporary
Cornish
culture. It manifests itself in such twinning agreements as those
between
the Cornish towns of Redruth and Bodmin and their respective
counterparts in
the U.S.A. at Mineral Point, Wisconsin, and Grass Valley, California. A
similar arrangement is proposed between Camborne in Cornwall and
Pachuca in
Mexico. In this way 'Cornishness' continues to have a unique
international
dimension. "

The above extract also includes a coloured photograph of several Flags
of
St Piran, with the accompanying comment:

" The closure of South Crofty Mine. 1998. The flag of St Piran, the
patron
saint of Cornish tinners, is a symbol that unites the Cornish in
Cornwall;
and with the global diaspora of people of Cornish descent. "

As it appears that the World Heritage Bid has been successful,
(though
not yet made public) you can see that UNESCO has a different opinion to
the
English Minister for Planning as to the significance of the Flag of St
Piran. If UNESCO feels able to accept the existence and symbolism of
the
Flag of St Piran, then why not your Department? It appears that your
advisors have been remiss in not acquainting you with all the facts and
factors regarding the Flag ,and with the depth of feeling, not only in
the
Duchy of Cornwall, but elsewhere in the Cornish Diaspora.

Under the circumstances would you not consider it commonsense to
rethink
your decision? No doubt you will have already be made cognizant with
the
comments of Lord Tyler (lately Paul Tyler, MP for North Cornwall)
regarding
it.

I would further point out that many Cornish people have been enraged by
what
they regard as a culturally insensitive action. It certainly does not
predispose the Cornish electorate towards voting for Labour candidates
in
the next General Election.

You have also placed District Councils in an unenviable position as
many DC
planning departments are being notified by taxpayers like myself that :
they are now flying a Flag of St Piran on their property;
that they have no intention whatsoever of applying for planning
permission
to fly their National Flag;
that, like myself, they have determined that they would rather suffer
imprisonment than do so.

I do not think that this is the kind of publicity which would be
sought by
any elected Member of the English legislature.

I remain,
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pfishwick Posted: 28.07.2006, 23:39

pfishwick

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QuoteI really couldn't give a hoot in hell about the English Counties.


Er, thanks but no thanks. Is this not one rule for you, one rule for me?

QuoteThis is Cornwall. It may be smaller and less populated than some areas but it is bigger than the Isle of Man and they're allowed their own flag. Size should not matter !


So are you really saying the the St Piran Gwyn ha Du should be legal, but the (my) Lancastrian Red Rose shouldn't? One rule for you, one rule for me or what? (especially given the constitutional position icon_smile

http://www.duchyoflancaster.org.uk/output/page14.asp

I hope that clarifies the situation. St Piran, Cornwall should be legal along side the Red Rose.

Fair deal.

Regards,

Patrick
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freekernow Posted: 29.07.2006, 09:29



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Just to let you all know that today I have received a letter from Carrick Council enclosing application forms under the Town & Country Planning Act 1990 / Town & Country Planning (Control of Advertisements) Regulations 1992 - Application for Consent to Display an Advertisement together with a request for £75. I shall of course write back informing that some laws are wrong and that I have no intention of applying for permission to fly my flag in my own land and also that I have written to the Planning Minister in this respect.
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cledry_maid Posted: 29.07.2006, 09:54



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Good for you! Good luck with it all - are you getting any publicity yet?
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abednego Posted: 29.07.2006, 11:04



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pfishwick, I agree.
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