What a strange thing to ask abednego. I guess all my working life a small part of my taxes has gone to pay for many people to learn the most obscure languages. I've never questioned it; in fact, I've never thought about it before. I'm sure people will be queueing up with this opportunity to make sure a portion of their tax is spent on an indigenous British language.
What I would like and what the UK public authorities would like are two very different things. Fortunately, the government has signed a legal undertaking with the Council of Europe to include the Cornish language within Pasrt II of the Charter for Regional or Minority Languages to make things easier:
Part II – Objectives and principles pursued in accordance with Article 2, paragraph 1
Article 7 – Objectives and principles
1 In respect of regional or minority languages, within the territories in which such languages are used and according to the situation of each language, the Parties shall base their policies, legislation and practice on the following objectives and principles:
a the recognition of the regional or minority languages as an expression of cultural wealth;
b the respect of the geographical area of each regional or minority language in order to ensure that existing or new administrative divisions do not constitute an obstacle to the promotion of the regional or minority language in question;
c the need for resolute action to promote regional or minority languages in order to safeguard them;
d the facilitation and/or encouragement of the use of regional or minority languages, in speech and writing, in public and private life;
e the maintenance and development of links, in the fields covered by this Charter, between groups using a regional or minority language and other groups in the State employing a language used in identical or similar form, as well as the establishment of cultural relations with other groups in the State using different languages;
f the provision of appropriate forms and means for the teaching and study of regional or minority languages at all appropriate stages;
g the provision of facilities enabling non-speakers of a regional or minority language living in the area where it is used to learn it if they so desire;
h the promotion of study and research on regional or minority languages at universities or equivalent institutions;
i the promotion of appropriate types of transnational exchanges, in the fields covered by this Charter, for regional or minority languages used in identical or similar form in two or more States.
2 The Parties undertake to eliminate, if they have not yet done so, any unjustified distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference relating to the use of a regional or minority language and intended to discourage or endanger the maintenance or development of it. The adoption of special measures in favour of regional or minority languages aimed at promoting equality between the users of these languages and the rest of the population or which take due account of their specific conditions is not considered to be an act of discrimination against the users of more widely-used languages.
3 The Parties undertake to promote, by appropriate measures, mutual understanding between all the linguistic groups of the country and in particular the inclusion of respect, understanding and tolerance in relation to regional or minority languages among the objectives of education and training provided within their countries and encouragement of the mass media to pursue the same objective.
4 In determining their policy with regard to regional or minority languages, the Parties shall take into consideration the needs and wishes expressed by the groups which use such languages. They are encouraged to establish bodies, if necessary, for the purpose of advising the authorities on all matters pertaining to regional or minority languages.
5 The Parties undertake to apply, mutatis mutandis, the principles listed in paragraphs 1 to 4 above to non-territorial languages. However, as far as these languages are concerned, the nature and scope of the measures to be taken to give effect to this Charter shall be determined in a flexible manner, bearing in mind the needs and wishes, and respecting the traditions and characteristics, of the groups which use the languages concerned.
That's a pretty good start, bearing in mind that the "resolute action" to which mention is made means that sufficient central government funding must be in place. (the Council of Europe praised the UK authorities for its resolute action in regard to Ulster Scots which, by the end of this year, will have received nearly £20 million - and they have fewer speakers than Cornish). The Council of Europe also regards Part II of the Charter to be sufficient to enable threatened minority languages to regain prominence in local life in the region in which it is spoken. Once that has been achieved, as in the case of Welsh, the further legal undertakings, outlined in Part III, may be required by the domestic signatory government.
There's no real point in outlining my own personal feelings as to what I would like as I have no means of achieving that on my own, I don't have sufficient clout with either local or national government. For the time being, I am quite content to rely upon the Charter itself as it is a legally enforceable treaty.
Mike, I am trying to tease out the present reality behind some nationalist beliefs. First, denial of the Cornish language (then history in schools and the government of Cornwall, I think).
It is now clear.
1
No one is actually denied the right to learn and use Cornish.
2
What is expected of other people in this sphere is their tax money.
Questions unexplored include: How much money? As one cannot spend the same money twice, what should loses out to pay for Cornish? The estimate was that about 270 people in Cornwall and 30 outside speak Cornish fluently for everyday purposes: what are legitimate longterm aims – Cornwall bilingual? Cornish compulsory or optional in every school in Cornwall (what will we drop to make way for it), fluency in Cornish a necessity for or criterion for employment, all council papers in two languages? Should people in Cornwall have a say in any of this? If so, how and when?
I have no settled views on any of these unexplored questions. I should like to know what nationalists think.
No one is denied the right to speak English, Gujarati, Welsh Gaelic, Ulster Scots, Scots etc etc either. However, people who do exercise their right to learn and use those languages and many others receive substantial public funding to support their language rights. Cornish speakers receive very little. You, in a democracy, cannot treat analogous groups differently.
You do not appear to have read my comments about Ulster Scots, a language recognised at the same time as Cornish which will have received £20 by the end of this year, for this year! What has Cornish had by way of comparison?
Firstly, Cornish speakers pay tax also! The longterm aims for Cornish can be read in my previous posting to this thread. That is to say, the aim is to put it on an even footing with other UK minority languages as per the Council of Europe's position on minority languages. Go read it yourself - it is very interesting. At the end of the day, after its introduction into public life and the curriculum, if people would like the Cornish language to be prominent over English, then so be it.
Secondly, what should lose out in order to pay for Cornish? Totally fatuous and spurious question. For what do we lose out when billions are spent on teaching people English (and not at all very well)? For what are we losing out in teaching students the local dialect of Bukino Faso? What do we lose in teaching people the various dialects of Cantonese? Your "what should lose out or be dropped" question is never asked in those situations.
Unexplored??? Have you been sitting under a bush? Where have you been for the past 50 years? Take a long, hard look at the minority protections guaranteed by the Council of Europe which the British government has ratified and accepted as good practice. See what Cornish language users are saying and then make a comparison. After that, see what you are saying and ask yourself whether your opinions are consistent with those same internationally accepted principles relating to national minorities and their languages.
My views are clearly very settled on any of these very well articulated and explored questions. I am in no doubt at all what English/Brit nationalists think - your posting has given much insight, thank you.
As a nationalist yourself, I am sure you are ready to pounce with claims that the people of Cornwall will have to do without crutches and wheelchairs next!
Perhaps, old Sloppyslag might care to comment on the fact that the figures mentioned above are based on awards from Cornwall's Objective One Program. In regard to the Scots language in Scotland where Objective One funds are not available, £600,000 of public money was provided from central funds. This is another example of unfair treatment between analogous groups. The sum which Snottytwit mentions above for ALL Cornish language development is paltrey in comparison to the sum awarded to Scots for one straight forward step in a standardisation process, a fact which is in need of urgent explanation, especially bearing in mind that funds which were originally awarded on the basis of regenerationg the Cornish economy are now being diverted to a project which relates to international promises which, in all other cases, are funded from within central government sources.
Can you explain the psychology of this, Spottypig?
(Ignoring the childish insult) Seeing as I linked to the information on the Objective one website, what comment would you like me to make?
(Ignoring the childish insult)
Well seeing as, yet again, you do not bring any facts or figures or links to the information you require us to debate, you're on a loser again.
You ask me to compare the Cornish situation (pop. 513,527) with a Scottish one (pop. 5,062,011) yet you do not ssay what it is, and you do not give any facts, and you provide no links. (What is this, a game of 20 questions? )
Try providing verifable evidence. (Oh but not from government websites, and not from the BBC, and not from CCC, and not from academic sources, as when I do that you state that they are not good enough, so play fair now...)
People are clearly not denied their Cornish language. The word is inappropriate.
I think my questions are legitimate and I should be interested in specific answers rather than generalisations. I think, for example, it is entirely reasonable to ask whether nationalists see an eventual outcome as competence in Cornish as a necessary employment condition or whether Cornish in schools is to be optional or compulsory. I am puzzled at the reluctance to answer specifically.
In saying my views are not settled I mean that I am open to argument and persuasion. I recall explaining months ago that I have spent my working life asking questions and giving provisional answers and encouraging others to do the same as a way of clarifying ideas and getting to approximate truths.
Flb, may I remind you that I asked if you could give the source of the 1415 claim for the St Piran flag that you mentioned in the letter.
Oooh that reminds me, I asked on here what the kernewek was for spotty pig and I forgot to boomark it. I know pig is hogh but I've forgoten the spotty bit. We might be keeping one of our young gilts ( no bacon from her then ) and she's spotty.
If I had a child and I wanted that child to be brought up as Cornish speaking and literate in the language, one would expect the opportunity of accessing a Cornish language education through educational provision that exists in Cornwall. At present that is not possible therefore my child would be denied this very basic human right to access Cornish.
The development of Cornish is clearly laid out on Cornwall Council's webiste with clear aims and objectives. I suggest you read that before suggesting that Cornish Nationalists have some alternative agenda.
You will see for intsnace that Cornish will not be a compulsory subject but will be able to be accessed by all eventually.
As to jobs, surely only jobs that require a knowledge of Cornish will have that as part of their job description e.g. Teachers of Cornish!
Cornwall is a long way away from a bilingual society.
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) and she's spotty.