search pnForum latest posts Note: Registered users can subscribe to notifications about new posts Note: Registered users can subscribe to notifications about new posts

to previous topic Print topic to next topic

Start ::  Cornwall24 Discussion ::  Cornwall24 Discussion Board ::  St. Piran's flag flying illegal
Moderated by: Admins

Goto page : 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 Next Page
Bottom 

St. Piran's flag flying illegal

freekernow Posted: 26.07.2006, 21:33



registered: Sep. 2005
Posts: 205

Status: offline
last visit: 15.04.07
Today's Western Morning News, page three: new planning guidance issued by the Westminster Planning Minister Yvette Cooper has made it clear that prosecutions (or should I say 'persecutions') if persons fly the St. Piran's flag in Cornwall without planning permission - BUT - its okay to fly the St. George's Flag, The Union Flag, the UN flag, the EU flag, the flag of Zimbabwe, Malawi in fact, any flag as long as it's not ours.
Fishings scat, minings scat, farmings scat, clay workings scat, health service scat, NHS dentistry scat, Cornish farings company scat, Chicken factory up Bodmins scat (60 jobs lost), jobs scat, flag scat, Cornish scat !
Over my dead body ! I am breaking the law and will continue to do so by flying my beloved St. Piran's flag & I have written to every local and national paper that I can find e-mail addresses for, to my M.P. to Yvette Cooper M.P. and to the local council inviting my prosecution. We really mmust start getting active here or else there will be nothing left to discuss !
Top  Profile send PM
 
freekernow Posted: 26.07.2006, 21:56



registered: Sep. 2005
Posts: 205

Status: offline
last visit: 15.04.07
PLANNING TO FLY A FLAG? BETTER GET PERMISSION
More Headlines | Back to home page

11:00 - 26 July 2006
Thousands of patriotic Cornishmen were facing the renewed threat of investigation by council planning inspectors last night - after the Government confirmed that planning permission is needed to fly the flag of St Piran.

Guidance issued by the Planning Minister Yvette Cooper yesterday included a slight relaxation of the controversial rules governing the flying of flags. But although the EU flag, the United Nations flag and the Commonwealth flag have been added to the list of "national" flags that can be flown without permission, the famous Cornish emblem has not.

The decision means that thousands of Cornish households flying the distinctive black and white flag of St Piran without planning permission could face enforcement action and fines. Similar problems could also face the growing number of people flying the green, white and black Devon flag, which was also left off the list.

The guidance supersedes informal advice given by the former Planning Minister Keith Hill two years ago. In the face PLANNING TO FLY A FLAG? BETTER GET PERMISSION
More Headlines | Back to home page

11:00 - 26 July 2006
Thousands of patriotic Cornishmen were facing the renewed threat of investigation by council planning inspectors last night - after the Government confirmed that planning permission is needed to fly the flag of St Piran.

Guidance issued by the Planning Minister Yvette Cooper yesterday included a slight relaxation of the controversial rules governing the flying of flags. But although the EU flag, the United Nations flag and the Commonwealth flag have been added to the list of "national" flags that can be flown without permission, the famous Cornish emblem has not.

The decision means that thousands of Cornish households flying the distinctive black and white flag of St Piran without planning permission could face enforcement action and fines. Similar problems could also face the growing number of people flying the green, white and black Devon flag, which was also left off the list.

The guidance supersedes informal advice given by the former Planning Minister Keith Hill two years ago. In the face of a major Cornish backlash over the rules, Mr Hill suggested that local councils might turn a blind eye to the "illegal" flying of the Cornish and Devon flags.

Lib-Dem peer Lord Tyler, who took up the issue two years ago when he sought advice about flying the Cornish flag in his own garden, described the latest move as a "backward step".

Lord Tyler said it was "very disappointing" that ministers had failed to use the review of the planning regulations to provide a specific exemption for the Cornish flag.

He said: "This is a betrayal of the promises given by the former minister to look favourably on the Cornish flag. It is an absurd anomaly that you can fly the Afghan flag or the Zimbabwean flag with impunity in Cornwall yet you cannot fly the only one that has any real meaning.

"No Cornish council would dare to do anything so stupid as to enforce these absurd rules, but the Government should recognise they are putting them in a very awkward position.

"This is an issue which causes huge irritation and unnecessary offence and I hope every true Cornishman and woman will write to Yvette Cooper asking her to change her mind."

Bert Biscoe, chairman of the Cornish Constitutional Convention, urged people in Cornwall to respond to the consultation on the new guidance by sending their views to Ms Cooper. He said the latest move could even provide an opportunity to get the Cornish flag included on the national list once and for all.

Mr Biscoe said: "Everyone in Cornwall who feels that St Piran's flag identifies Cornwall to the world should write to the minister and ask that, because Cornwall is a special place, it flag should be included on the list of those that do not need planning permission."

Former Dartmouth ferryman Kevin Pyne said the ruling was likely to cause similar offence in Devon, where the emblem of a white cross with a black border on a green background has proved increasingly popular in recent years.

Mr Pyne, who flew the first ever Devon flag, said he had previously received a letter from the government suggesting it would look favourably on Devon's case.

He said: "The whole nation is struggling to pay ever-rising fuel bills, the environment is a complete mess, we are running out of energy and all the Government can think of to do is chase a lame ferryman because he wants to fly the flag of the county he loves.

"The Devon flag is a simple, honest flag that pays respect to Devon's past Celtic history. It does no harm to anyone.

"All this is is another tax. The local authorities will say yes to all the applications and charge you £50 for the privilege. It is ridiculous."

The rules governing flags were originally devised in the early 1990s to prevent a proliferation of flags carrying advertising. Any national flag - including those of England, Wales and Scotland - may be flown with impunity, but all others are treated as advertisements and require planning permission.

The new guidance, which will be subject to a three-month consultation, is designed to update the rules.

The decision to give the EU flag the status of a national flag is also likely to provoke an outcry among Eurosceptics. The proposal, which was first revealed by the WMN at the end of last year, follows a number of representations from local councils who were irritated at having to deal with complaints from Eurosceptics reporting possible infringements of the law.

Neil Parish, Conservative MEP for the South West, described the move as "ridiculous and provocative".


of a major Cornish backlash over the rules, Mr Hill suggested that local councils might turn a blind eye to the "illegal" flying of the Cornish and Devon flags.

Lib-Dem peer Lord Tyler, who took up the issue two years ago when he sought advice about flying the Cornish flag in his own garden, described the latest move as a "backward step".

Lord Tyler said it was "very disappointing" that ministers had failed to use the review of the planning regulations to provide a specific exemption for the Cornish flag.

He said: "This is a betrayal of the promises given by the former minister to look favourably on the Cornish flag. It is an absurd anomaly that you can fly the Afghan flag or the Zimbabwean flag with impunity in Cornwall yet you cannot fly the only one that has any real meaning.

"No Cornish council would dare to do anything so stupid as to enforce these absurd rules, but the Government should recognise they are putting them in a very awkward position.

"This is an issue which causes huge irritation and unnecessary offence and I hope every true Cornishman and woman will write to Yvette Cooper asking her to change her mind."

Bert Biscoe, chairman of the Cornish Constitutional Convention, urged people in Cornwall to respond to the consultation on the new guidance by sending their views to Ms Cooper. He said the latest move could even provide an opportunity to get the Cornish flag included on the national list once and for all.

Mr Biscoe said: "Everyone in Cornwall who feels that St Piran's flag identifies Cornwall to the world should write to the minister and ask that, because Cornwall is a special place, it flag should be included on the list of those that do not need planning permission."

Former Dartmouth ferryman Kevin Pyne said the ruling was likely to cause similar offence in Devon, where the emblem of a white cross with a black border on a green background has proved increasingly popular in recent years.

Mr Pyne, who flew the first ever Devon flag, said he had previously received a letter from the government suggesting it would look favourably on Devon's case.

He said: "The whole nation is struggling to pay ever-rising fuel bills, the environment is a complete mess, we are running out of energy and all the Government can think of to do is chase a lame ferryman because he wants to fly the flag of the county he loves.

"The Devon flag is a simple, honest flag that pays respect to Devon's past Celtic history. It does no harm to anyone.

"All this is is another tax. The local authorities will say yes to all the applications and charge you £50 for the privilege. It is ridiculous."

The rules governing flags were originally devised in the early 1990s to prevent a proliferation of flags carrying advertising. Any national flag - including those of England, Wales and Scotland - may be flown with impunity, but all others are treated as advertisements and require planning permission.

The new guidance, which will be subject to a three-month consultation, is designed to update the rules.

The decision to give the EU flag the status of a national flag is also likely to provoke an outcry among Eurosceptics. The proposal, which was first revealed by the WMN at the end of last year, follows a number of representations from local councils who were irritated at having to deal with complaints from Eurosceptics reporting possible infringements of the law.

Neil Parish, Conservative MEP for the South West, described the move as "ridiculous and provocative".
Top  Profile send PM
 
lugger Posted: 26.07.2006, 21:56



registered: Mar. 2005
Posts: 1

Status: offline
last visit: 17.02.07
Well, the stupid cow won't stop me.It does make you wonder what keeps the
members of the redcoat governments ears apart, doesn't it?
Lugger
Top  Profile send PM Homepage
 
fooboo Posted: 26.07.2006, 22:19

fooboo

registered: Jul. 2006
Posts: 141

Status: offline
last visit: 26.09.08
I believe you can put a flag up in your window or hang any flag from your house without needing planning permission, the rule only applies to flying it from a pole designed for the purpose.
But I fully agree, there shouldn't be any question at all about hanging/flying a St. Piran in Cornwall. Saying they'll turn a blind eye is saying it's still illegal and doesn't deserve legitimate status but we wont prosecute. It's insulting, like they are confirming their contempt for the flag.
Top  Profile send PM
 
freekernow Posted: 26.07.2006, 22:22



registered: Sep. 2005
Posts: 205

Status: offline
last visit: 15.04.07
Write to Yvette Cooper M.P.
House of Commons
LONDON
SW1A 0AA
or email:
coopery@parliament.co.uk
Top  Profile send PM
 
1549 Posted: 26.07.2006, 22:38

1549

registered: Jun. 2006
Posts: 206

Status: offline
last visit: 12.04.07
According to this BBC report, it is now legal to fly any national flag of the UK so I shall continue to fly the St Piran's flag of Kernow.

National flags ban to be lifted - Outdated laws banning the flying of national flags are to be scrapped. Currently it is illegal to fly a national flag without permission from a local council -unless it is flown from a vertical flagpole.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/5211952.stm

http://www.duckout.com/catalog/images/FM005-cornwall-flag.gif
Top  Profile send PM
 
Shaz Posted: 26.07.2006, 22:49

Shaz

registered: Feb. 2006
Posts: 1718

Status: offline
last visit: 03.01.09
QuoteYvette Cooper has made it clear that prosecutions (or should I say 'persecutions') if persons fly the St. Piran's flag in Cornwall without planning permission - BUT - its okay to fly the St. George's Flag, The Union Flag, the UN flag, the EU flag, the flag of Zimbabwe, Malawi in fact, any flag as long as it's not ours


To be honest I never new that it was illegal to fly a flag from your own house, I think that the above comment is an outrage and that every Cornish person should make a stand and fly the flag.

Fooboo reckons you only need permission if your flying your flag from a pole, so does this mean you can fly it without a pole?

http://www.freetextinfo.com/images2/flag.jpg
Top  Profile send PM
 
Penwithian_in_California Posted: 26.07.2006, 22:59



registered: Jul. 2006
Posts: 348

Status: offline
last visit: 12.05.08
Quote
Thousands of patriotic Cornishmen were facing the renewed threat of investigation by council planning inspectors last night - after the Government confirmed that planning permission is needed to fly the flag of St Piran.


Why oh why does the British government fear us so.
Top  Profile send PM
 
1549 Posted: 26.07.2006, 23:12

1549

registered: Jun. 2006
Posts: 206

Status: offline
last visit: 12.04.07
Quote
Why oh why does the British government fear us so ?


Declaration of Kernow 2006

"For as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any condition be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself." ( extract from the Declaration of Arbroath 1474 asserting Scotland's right to international recognition as an independent country and still relevent to ALL Celtic nations today)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_Arbroath
Top  Profile send PM
 
pfishwick Posted: 26.07.2006, 23:26

pfishwick

registered: Jun. 2005
Posts: 277

Status: offline
last visit: 12.11.08
All flags other than recognised national flags are technically illegal. So the St. Piran's cross, the Devon flag, the Lancashire red rose (mine icon_smile ), the Yorkshire white rose, the Northumberland flag, the Bedfordshire flag etc etc are all in the same boat.

Why pretend that the Cornish are being uniquely persecuted? :? :?: I genuinely don't get this. Especially as I was in Kernow last weekend and plenty of premises were flying the Gwyn ha Du without any threat of prosecution.

Patrick
Top  Profile send PM
 
fooboo Posted: 26.07.2006, 23:46

fooboo

registered: Jul. 2006
Posts: 141

Status: offline
last visit: 26.09.08
QuoteWhy pretend that the Cornish are being uniquely persecuted?


I suppose it stems from the fact that there is no contention that Yorkshire et. al. are counties and therefore not entitled to a 'national' flag but Cornwall maintains it is a nation not a county.

The roses etc. aren't national flags. Saying national flags can be flown but the St. Piran can't means that it is the only national flag being singled out.
Top  Profile send PM
 
TGG Posted: 27.07.2006, 00:03

TGG

registered: Aug. 2005
Posts: 1119

Status: offline
last visit: 07.01.09
Put simply, the legalising of national flags has come into being because the English people have now realised (as a consequence of Devolution to Scotland and Wales) that 'this Sceptred Isle' is NOT England and that it is wrong to misappropriate the symbols of the United Kingdom for its own use - as hitherto.

The British Myth has been exposed for what it is and it is now safe to legalise 'national' flags for the good of the English cause. As always, the Cornish Case has to be fought for!

TGG

http://www.kernowtgg.co.uk
Top  Profile send PM Homepage
 
pfishwick Posted: 27.07.2006, 00:27

pfishwick

registered: Jun. 2005
Posts: 277

Status: offline
last visit: 12.11.08
QuotePut simply, the legalising of national flags has come into being because the English people have now realised (as a consequence of Devolution to Scotland and Wales) that 'this Sceptred Isle' is NOT England and that it is wrong to misappropriate the symbols of the United Kingdom for its own use - as hitherto.


OK, but it doesn't feel that great being an English person under the present UK administration, not least because of the imposed "regional assemblies". The Government is not acting on behalf of the general population of England, or the rest of the UK; it's looking after itself.

Yes, some folk in Kernow regard their flag as national, but I don't see a reason why it should be legally priveleged above the English regional flags, especially when some of these regions have larger populations than Kernow, and a strong identity to boot.

In practise I think you can get away with flying a St Piran's flag, or any of the regional English flags.(funny, I've never seen an SWRA flag icon_lol ). Ideally, they should all be formally legal.

Patrick
Top  Profile send PM
 
freekernow Posted: 27.07.2006, 00:51



registered: Sep. 2005
Posts: 205

Status: offline
last visit: 15.04.07
I really couldn't give a hoot in hell about the English Counties. I am Cornish not bloody English (I know its wrong, but I'm beginning to despise them !) This is Cornwall. It may be smaller and less populated than some areas but it is bigger than the Isle of Man and they're allowed their own flag. Size should not matter !
I have invited prosecution of me by Yvette Cooper and Carrick District Council and I shall take every pleasure in arriving for the trial at which I shall plead not guilty wearing my best kilt and the medals the stangnant Queen's representatives were pleased to pin on me. I shall also take every pleasure in handing them in to the Court who are representatives of that Crown to which I bear no allegiance any more.
Top  Profile send PM
 
xxxxxx Posted: 27.07.2006, 05:11



registered: Sep. 2004
Posts: 2305

Status: offline
last visit: 27.03.08
QuoteOutdated laws banning the flying of national flags are to be scrapped.
Currently it is illegal to fly a national flag without permission from a local council - unless it is flown from a vertical flagpole.


I don't think this law really should worry anyone in Cornwall....

Unless you want a replay of the last "the Cornish flag is banned" debacle? icon_biggrin

QuoteTime to come clean.

The Cornish Times did report the story with the impression the flag was banned, which i genuinely thought, but after reading a few other sources it became clear that you were right, it was all about planning permission for the pole. But at this point the debate was under way and i couldn't resist but to carry on even though i was wrong, too much of my grandad in me! He'd argue a black man white as my gran would have said.
Top  Profile send PM
 
Goto page : 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 Next Page


Users online:
gokyreloaded - P_Trembath - morvran - Shiner - TeamKernow - Allister - Nev

This list bases on the users active in the last 60 minutes
Cornwall24 2006 (c) web design & web hosting by a-connect
Sponsors: Cornwall hotels, Cornwall self-catering, Cornwall restaurant guide,Devon
Cornwall 24 news feed
Cornwall 24 News and Views