A couple of interesting quotes from: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/5197786.stm
Businessman Kevin Williams is leading efforts to reopen the Soft Crofty pit.
His company, Baseresult, bought the disused site in 2001 and is currently seeking planning permission to reopen the mine and create 200 jobs.
"There is still 80 years of tin down there using modern production methods," he says.
"We will sell it on the world commodity markets where the price is currently very high thanks to strong demand led by China."
and........
It may still be the weakest economy in England, but between 1994 and 2004 the Cornish economy grew at a rate of 5.8% per year, ahead of the UK average of 5.4%.
The most up to date official figures from Brussels go even further, saying that in 2003 the Cornish economy showed the greatest improvement of any region in whole of the EU.
What killed off Cornish mining was the cheaper ores from open cast mining in other parts of the world, notably malaysia and S.America (often set up by our Cornish mining ancestors!)
Surprise surprise... many of these places now find that their open cast mines are exhausted, copper and tin prices continue to rise.........
Welcome back, Cornish Mining? (if the environmentalists don't ban it!)
Perhaps the poor clayworkers could retrain as miners, and mine surface workers?
The biggest problem in the way of Crofty reopening isn't financial or environmental but political.
There are solutions to the environmental problems, look at the Lead Zinc mines in Ireland, where the environmental regulations are exactly the same as over here. They are mining complex sulphide ore bodies, similar to Wheal Janes (and we all know what the water from that mine was like), however by using modern methods all the tailings are pumped back underground and the water filtered to a level that enables it to be put straight into the rivers (And they aren't red!)
Financially the figures stack up, a lot has changed since the mine shut down in 1998 China was the world largest exporter of tin, it is now the worlds largest importer, the EU and Japan have banned lead in solder, in 1998 solder was generally 70% Lead 30% tin, they are now 95% tin. Russia's Tin reserves are now lower than Crofty's, Malaysia as a country (which was a major exporter and blamed for the low tin price) is now only producing 2000 tonnes a year (which is about the same as croftys annual production was). Another major factor for the continually low tin price, which remained until about 3 years ago was the fact there was a massive mountain of tin that was left over from the 1985 tin crisis which was only exhausted in 2001.
Politically it is a problem (Have a look on the news page on www.southcrofty.co.uk), you will see the county councils take on it. The biggest problem there is a certain councillor who was a miner at crofty until 1998, who now believes he is the worlds leading mining engineer, mineral economist and mineral processing engineering all rolled into one (Clever bloke he must be) who has managed to convinced other councillors (Like Adam Paynter, a name that most people on this forum will recognise) that Crofty will never be viable because crofty can't possibly compete with third world countries, to the extent that they can't produce tin cheaper than say Bolivia is absolutely correct, however by believing tin is sold at the price of the cheapest producer shows a complete lack of understanding of international mineral economics, where by the tin is sold at exchanges similar to stock exchanges, to the highest bidder, and as the current situation is (And will continue to be for a long time due there be no known unworked deposits worldwide at present) where there is a demand for more tin than can be supplied, the price will remain high and crofty will make a profit (But not as much as the bolivian mines).
Isn't the biggest problem always political? I think most of us know that Cornish tin mining becoming truly valuable (and not simply viable) remains idealistic. An idea (like water pumps), can be kept alive and can - indeed - make a difference, but making this idea work within its contemporary political framework will be many times more challenging than simply putting it into practice.
Cornish mining would have to be valuable and viable to survive... politically and economically. A challenging feat in the past, and even more so in the future.
Cornish miners had families, and they had to survive, at any cost. The very reason that they left Kernow in the mid 1800s was because tin mining was no longer viable at home, at that time. We could debate that their actions would dash hopes for a successful tin mining revival in Kernow's future, but we should consider this.... Cornish miners had one of the finest reputations for being the best miners in the world. In true Cornish spirit, their hard-working ideals, great innovations, and strong morals/ethics followed them wherever they settled. They continued to work hard to survive for the sake of their families, and some of their earnings were sent back to Kernow. It is a great shame that their skills could not be retained and significantly recycled into the economy of their homeland, but the simple fact was that survival was the name of the game for them. It should not be the case that our ancestors are held 'accountable' for their great skills; they had little choice but to apply them outside Kernow. Indeed, their skills should be hearlded for the scale of their contributions. We should never underestimate the potential benefit in an image of widespread Cornish productiveness.
Completely wrong my friend, the reason they left in the mid 1800's was because the development of the Parys Mountain copper mine (Which was open cast and capable of producing the entire worlds need of copper), had made the cornish copper mines irrelevant. This led to mass redundancies as copper mines shut down. The bigger mines like Crofty & Dolcoath carried on while making massive losses, then in the 1870's they made a discovery as they went deeper that there was tin in the deeper parts of the mines. Tin was worth 10 -15 times what copper was at the time and that is what led to the development of the tin mines. This led to considerable expansion of the tin mining industry and massive modernisation.
Unfortunately after 1985 Tin Crisis, Crofty's massive modernisation program went down the pan and by 1997 the way the mine was working was not too dissimilar to how it worked in the 1950's and with no money to bring the mill back to crofty after Wheal Jane closed (the money that was set aside for the mill had to be diverted to reestablish new Roskear Shaft after Robinsons was Condemned), left the mine with a huge transport burden.
I am a supporter of the mining industry and if Baseresult wish to spend their money opening up South Crofty then no public body, quango or pseudo business should stand in their way, market forces will determine what is viable.
I do question that the time is right for South Crofty. There have been many comments about tin prices being high at present, the reality is that although they are higher than the dismal lows seen over the past 20 years they remain close to the lowest they have ever been in real terms, and the actual price is only what it was around 1977. Back then a small miners cottage cost less than 3 tons of tin, today the same dwelling would sell quickly for 40 tons of tin.
Regardless of whether Crofty gets going now or not nothing should be done which would prevent mining re-starting one day.
Well said oldminer, I think it may be a little dangerous to compare tin with houses, as that comparison would stack up the same with any industry. Beware of comparing anything with the mid 80's too, that was completely artificial, and those prices will not be seen again for perhaps 20 years. The key is modernisation, crofty when it shut was an inefficient operation, due to lack of funds to modernise and even then the operation was marginal (for example the mine made a £240000 profit in 96/97, at that time they were spending nearly £1,000,000 transporting ore to wheal jane).
Simple economics are this, If tin can be produced for lower than the international price, the mine will be viable. I believ tin can be produced in cornwall for a lot less than the current £4900 a tonne.
The issue is simply one of economic viability and value at the time. The fact remains that Cornish miners had difficulty in this regard. Your perspective on copper and tin doesn't change the central issue.
.... and this contributes to a poor local economy and the requirement to work/survive elsewhere.
The fact remains that Cornish miners left Kernow because they had to survive - for the sake of their families. They couldn't continue in Kernow - that much was clear. The reasons for their emmigration are clear and widespread on the internet. One source is....
The biggest question I think is this: -
Is the Cornish economy stronger or weaker without a mining industry?
The simple answer is weaker due to the nature of the industry, i.e it creates something from nothing.
For example as I mentioned in 97 the mine was making a marginal profit, with tin prices 40% lower than today. At that time they were spending £6,000,000 on wages.
What replaced that industry, creating that money?
Tesco (For example as they are now the biggest private employer in camborne redruth) creates nothing and puts a small proportion of what it takes back into the local economy!
I agree with you on this. Any Cornish industry which DIRECTLY puts back a majority share into the Cornish economy, is creating positive good for Kernow. English business ultimately contributes to an English economy. I'm guilty of being somewhat idealistic in this regard, because I'm all for seeing the longview and identifying the overall good for Kernow, but of course our local people need employment. Again.... this brings me back to the concept of 'biting the hand that feeds'..... namely the 'english hand'; a very difficult thing to do, but in some ways, very necessary, if we're to get back for Kernow the things that were wrongly taken away by England.....
Being a bit cynical, IF copper/tin mining comes back to Cornwall, it will probably be in the form of a big multinational company, it will probably remain secret as to its intentions as long as possible, so as to minimise the chances of any coherent opposition forming, and profits will probably go out of Cornwall, nevertheless, spinoffs such as employment and support industries will probably bring some local benefits.
Coady, are there any local mining company that could come up with about £20,000,000 and the expertise to open a mine, while meeting the stringent environmental constraints, I doubt it very much and as such any restart of mining needs to be funded, even if secretly by a multinational
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