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Why feel strongly about a Cornwall independent from England?

Fulub-le-Breton Posted: 09.08.2006, 20:15

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Hunlef,

What do you want the end goal for Cornwall to be and how do we go about it?
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Hunlef Posted: 09.08.2006, 21:13

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1) Inclusion of the Cornish in the FCPNM.

2) Funding for the Cornish minority comparable to that received by other minorities.

3) The introduction into Cornish schools of the history of Cornwall, Cornish particularisms, language. I won't say any more than this because Sentinel has already made a successful argument about how the present system has failed our children on another thread. No point reproducing it here.

4) To see that a properly funded process of standardisation for the Cornish language takes place so that our children can be imbued with a sound, consistent form of the language. As soon as this has been achieved, the language should be introduced into all schools and used by all Cornish public authorities, to raise its profile and ensure its survival as part of the collective, cultural wealth of the UK and Europe. This should be achieved in the same way that has already ocurred in the cases of other recognised UK minority languages.

5) Removal of all laws and practices, most of which centre upon the Duchy of Cornwall, which are inconsistent with modern standards of human rights and which discriminate against the Cornish directly and indirectly. I understand that a case has been accepted by the Court of Human Rights in which these issues will be aired at some time in the not too distant future.

Although I am not in a position to post substance for this assertion, members of this forum might take the opportunity to contact the Cornish Stannary Information Office which, I am sure, will be willing to divulge the official court log number. (They gave it to me)

6) to force the UK government to include Article 13 of the ECHR in the Human Rights Act and to ratify Protocol 12 of the Convention. Go to www.coe.int and look 'em up if you are not familiar with them.

7) to obtain a statutory guarantee of "equality before the law" for ALL citizens of this country. This is a caselaw precedent of the Treaty of the European Union. At the present time, all other member countries fulfil this requirement as they include such a provision in their domestic constitutions. The UK, without a written constitutional text and without a statutory guarantee could be in breach of the Treaty, were this issue brought to the European Courts of Justice.

Those are the shorter term aims. Longer term? Well, let's wait and see what happens to this lot first. We can talk about devolution and anything else after that.

How do you see things, Falub?
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Hunlef Posted: 09.08.2006, 22:06

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Oh, I nearly forgot! How do we achieve these aims?

Well, some progress is already being made in regard to the language.

In regard to the FCPNM, the monitoring cycle of the Council of Europe is underway. If the British government continues to obfuscate and prevaricate in submitting its UK FC Compliance Report to the C of E, the Committee of Experts will base its recommendations on the application of the Convention to government on information it obtains from NGOs and individuals. That's not such a bad thing, by the way. However, I am assured that the Race Equality Unit of the Home Office is currebntly preparing a draft which will be put before the minister at the end of August. I would envisage this document being made public sometime during the Autumn.

Missing Convention Articles, discriminatory laws, failure of the state to comply with treaty obligations etc - all these are currently resting in the Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg.
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Penwithian_in_California Posted: 10.08.2006, 06:40



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Quote
..Is it Apathy though? Apathy tends to suggest a laxity of thought,


I think the worst signs of apathy are when some of us agree on the concept of independence and/or devolution, yet think of it as a totally unachievable goal. The warning sign for apathy is when we feel that our goals are unrealistic, and don't bother to work towards them. Our goals have merit and integrity; we should never allow others to tell us that our energies are wasted because when we give up, they truly are.

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What if (horror of horrors!) Cornish people are educated, independant thinkers, who HAVE considered the issue and decided firmly that independance is NOT a good thing?


I think that's fine. Not everyone has to agree, but everyone should form their opinions from an educated perspective. It's not only some Cornishmen who should research the history of their land; it's the English, who will naturally find it hard - from a perspective without historical knowledge or passion - to identify the seriousness of the issues or what it actually is we're supporting.

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A referendum, or at least a very good poll with a large sample would answer the question...


It would; and if I were to urge only two things to happen, it would be.... let's educate ourselves, and LET'S HAVE OUR RIGHT TO A FREE VOTE ON DEVOLUTION. LET EDUCATED PEOPLE DECIDE.

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So all this talk of being independent of England but still in the UK is pie in the sky, because as so many of you have pointed out the UK is run by the English Establishment anyway. And quite honestly Cornwall, unfortunately, can not stand on it's own financially.


We cannot abandon our goals because some people consider them unrealistic. If the world did that, there would be very little meaningful progress or chance of governmental change - anywhere. A revolution requires passionate people who work towards change - regardless of the obstacles they encounter.

Cornwall may encounter difficulty being independent, from a financial point-of-view. Most of us know that total independence can't happen in a 'short' time-frame, but devolution can start the wheels turning in the right direction, and as we all know - devolution doesn't mean we are totally alienating ourselves from the contemporary structure of Cornish economical dependence, it means we can just start to gain some political autonomy, and have greater control over the issues which concern us most. HISTORY TELLS US THIS IS OUR BASIC RIGHT.

In my view, those of us who support the concept of an independent Cornwall must start the 'wheels' moving in the right direction.

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What do we want and how will it relate to the EU?

1) A totally independent Cornwall (No UK or EU)

2) A totally independent Cornwall but part of the EU.

3) A Cornwall independent from England, like Wales, but part of a reformed UK (and EU).

4) An autonomous Cornwall with assembly but still part of England.

5) An independent Cornwall in a Celtic union with the other nations if they would have us.


Each of us will have opinions on this. In my view, we should base our opinions on that which we consider ultimately gives us greater control over our many (specific) Cornish interests - with both long and short-term goals being considered. One thing is for sure, it's hard to see how Cornish interests can be represented with Cornwall remaining part of England.
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Fulub-le-Breton Posted: 16.08.2006, 20:35

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Thanks for the reply Hunlef but what form of government do you want and what relationship will it have with Westminster and / or Brussles?
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angofbew Posted: 16.08.2006, 21:38

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3) A Cornwall independent from England, like Wales, but part of a reformed UK (and EU).


This would be my first choice.

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2) A totally independent Cornwall but part of the EU


and this my second.

just so that people know my view, icon_smile
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baillieston Posted: 16.08.2006, 22:20



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I have used this already under the nationalism section but it apply's here also the answer below talks about scotlands place in the EU if we became independent which is just a matter of when now but the same would apply for cornwall if it became a fully independent country

Will Scotland be a member of the European Union?Document Actions Scotland is already in the European Union and this will remain the case after Independence. Article 34 of the 1978 Convention on Succession of States in respect of Treaties says:

"Any treaty in force at the date of succession of states [i.e. Independence] in respect of the entire territory of the predecessor state continues in force in respect of each successor state so formed."

An example worth noting is that of Greenland. When Greenland gained more autonomy from Denmark in 1979, it had to negotiate to be allowed out of the EU.

The 1992 Maastricht Treaty has already conferred on Scots the status of European citizens and the EU will have no more reason to reject an independent Scotland than to reject the independent remainder of the UK.

For the past two decades the overwhelming weight of legal and political opinion has stated that an independent Scotland would inherit EU member ship on exactly the same terms as the rest of the UK. The SNP has consulted widely throughout the EU and we are confident that an independent Scotland would not only remain in the EU as a full member, but would be welcome as such.

Emile Noêl, former Secretary General of the European Commission, has said:

"Scottish Independence would create two new member states out of one. They would have equal status with each other and the other 11 states. The remainder of the United Kingdom would not be in a more powerful position than Scotland."

Eamonn Gallagher, Former Director General of the European Commission and European Community Ambassador to the United Nations backed this view: "In my view, there could be no sustainable legal or political objection to separate Scottish membership of the European Community."

If newly independent nations like Estonia can be members of the EU then so can Scotland.
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TGG Posted: 16.08.2006, 23:27

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Please correct me if I am wrong, but if Scotland left the UK, then there would be no United Kingdom! It would simply be the Kingdom of England and Northern Ireland.

TGG
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baillieston Posted: 16.08.2006, 23:50



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As far as i am concerned they can call it what they want it would be of no concern to scotland because we would have our independence and would go on from stength to strength and cornwall should want the same for her people
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Fulub-le-Breton Posted: 17.08.2006, 12:50

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angofbew,

I understand your first choice but if the snp and plied get what they want for Scotland and Wales, i.e. total independence from the UK, how can Cornwall be part of a UK that doesn't exist? The Kingdom of England plus NI are all that would be left.

This is my point; of all the peoples that make up the UK the Cornish and Protestant Ulstermen are the only ones who really think they are British/Britons. This will be painful if GB/UK ceases to exist.

The Scots and Welsh don't want to be British and the English don't know the difference between British and English so that leaves the Ulstermen and the Cornish.

Ulstermen don't want to be Irish and can’t be English so British is their only choice.

The Cornish are not happy being English and are (often) disallowed being just Cornish so being a Briton/British is a happy compromise as long as GB exists.

Due to our history and our own particular insecurity about nationhood is there a strong dose of British nationlism in the Cornish movement?
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TGG Posted: 17.08.2006, 13:37

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Neither UK nor Britain could exist as a territorial name. The former refers to a Union and the second to a large European offshore Island. Also, the very fact that British has been made synonomous with English, for me at least, is a term only used under duress.

I am a 'Cornish' European!

Perhaps an alignment within a Brythonic Confederation?

Norden did acknowledge that we were united with the Principality of Wales!

TGG
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Coady Posted: 17.08.2006, 14:02

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Surely even if everybody gets the independence they want, none of them yet plan to declare republics? If all still accept the reigning monarch as Head of State, you could still say it was UK, a "United Kingdom", even if 'united' only under the Crown?

Britain could surely still be used too, as the name of the actual island we all live on, or British Isles to include the whole shebang?

Or do some Nationalists see Cornwall as having Charles Duke of Cornwall as our Head of State, for which I have read SOME evidence?

Are there existing views on these constitutional aspects?

Graham.
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Fulub-le-Breton Posted: 17.08.2006, 14:06

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Thank you Graham for continuing the question because i feel it is one that Cornish nationalists often try to avoid.
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Coady Posted: 17.08.2006, 14:13

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I don't mean 'to stir the pot' but I haven't been coming here long and haven't seen the issue raised at all.
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CJenkin Posted: 17.08.2006, 15:02



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I'm a Cornish nationalist but I'm also a republican - If Cornwall was an independent state I wouldn't want a Queen or a Duke.

It amazes me that more people aren't vocal against these parasites (who might be awfully nice individuals) that nonetheless have wealth and influence based not on ability but ancient feudalism - hardly democratic!!!
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