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Positive 'English independence' link

Penwithian_in_California Posted: 18.10.2006, 01:39



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Interesting stuff on the Original Dissent website...............

http://www.originaldissent.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20999
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Penwithian_in_California Posted: 18.10.2006, 01:46



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From this link, some words of reason from a fundamentally pro-English-independence perspective......

Quote
What exactly is different about your idea English Independence?

People think of independence as geographical or economical. We aim to be independent by distinguishing our culture, identity and people. This is indeed different.

How will you achieve it?

The first thing will be a determined drive to pull out of the European Union and eventually the UK. This of course is easier said than done and the move has to be justified. As soon as we can successfully deliver the message of the English as a nationality and that our origins have been quite different to others in Britain, we will become a fully recognised nation.

What might a political map of the UK look like after this?

It may look similar to the devolved map of Britannia during Anglo Saxon times – the whole south east region as settled Saxon kingdoms.

Will the Celtic countries also have independence?

Yes. In fact English independence will no doubt achieve be the long awaited goal of Celtic independence. When England is recognised as a nation in its own right, the union need not break up entirely as the Celt countries can become a mutual federation – a Union of Celtic Nations (UCN)

Won’t this look absurd if the EU goes ahead?

Not all countries will join the EU and it is looking that way now. The map of Europe will become fragmented where only the countries that desperately need to join will be in. Stronger nations will be seen scattered across the continent and look no stranger independent than merged. England as a separate entity to Britain will look no more absurd than Portugal is to Spain or Norway is to Sweden.

How will England survive economically as a devolved nation against Europe?

Recently there had been three economically strong nations that were seen to survive outside the European Constitution – France, Germany and Britain. England being the largest population of Britain had been the driving force behind this and could certainly manage now the pound is strong. In any case it wouldn’t just be England surviving next to Europe as there will be other independent countries.

But isn’t a federation within Europe simply inevitable?

Wasn't the Third Reich!

How do you differ from the existing parties for England?

Our proposal is one for the Anglo Saxon English and a grass-roots movement which constitutes an unregistered body accessible to people online. We make things easier for the Joe Public who simply wants to get involved!
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FlammNew Posted: 18.10.2006, 09:06

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If, as they say, their proposal "is one for the Anglo Saxon English", it's not a proposal which caters for many people, is it? What about the Viking English, the Norman English, the Jutes, Danes etc etc etc? Another website peddling the myth of the pure-bred Anglo-Saxon English. Good news for the Celtic nations, but your quote doesn't mention Cornwall.
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Fulub-le-Breton Posted: 18.10.2006, 12:01

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I have had contact with the English Independence Alliance before and they do have a very good take on Cornwall, we are a celtic nation for them.

For Eng Nats this is generally and exception.

However i cannot agree with their euroscepticism or ethnic nationalism.

What do they think of English citizens with african or asian roots, is there a place for them in EIA's perfect England?
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Penwithian_in_California Posted: 19.10.2006, 00:55



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Quote
Another website peddling the myth of the pure-bred Anglo-Saxon English. Good news for the Celtic nations, but your quote doesn't mention Cornwall.


Fair point, but I was simply encouraged by this as a positive stance which I feel - from the perspective of non-Celtic nations - is more proactive regarding a universal acceptance of the 'British' being peopleS, rather than people. I am not illustrating it as THE definition which all 'English' people should support; that is not for me to determine or debate. As it applies to us - differentiating 'English' people from Celtic people represents a step forward and represents a much more positive thought process and proactive stance for all peoples debating a notion of 'British othernness' and what it means on a more localised level. Furthermore, this kind of thinking UNIFIES - even in its mission for accepted differentiation, because it recognises that the concerns of the many peoples on the British Isles should be valued, represented and recognised as much as practically possible. The thought process presented makes sense to me because as some people on this forum have mentioned, there's a fundamental problem concerning how far we go back in history and to what era we - as individuals - favour as a most 'true' era for contemporary regional/ethnic representation. Clearly, the general issue must be one of PROGRESS. If there is to be progress in any of our respective quests for cultural/ethnic representation, there cannot be a solution which represents and satisfies ALL individual people; this is an obvious impossibility. Rather, it makes sense to make conscientious attempts to represent as many British ethnic persons as possible, in-line with a level of acceptance for historical 'reasoning'. Undoubtedly, some of us will object to how we may be represented, yet this situation is at its worst right now while many of us remain frustrated with the way we are currently officially represented (or MISrepresented - as the case may be. We either make movements in the direction of collective progress, or we do not. The Celtic Nations are reasonably recognised as such, therefore there is no reason why they should not be officially/politically/culturally differentiated in an appropriate way. Just what is 'reasonable' from the perspective of other peoples on the British Isles is a subject for their respective debates on other forums; as I said, their identity and representation is not something I could comment on, since it would not be a personal issue I would be motivated to discuss or speak with any authority on.

Quote
I have had contact with the English Independence Alliance before and they do have a very good take on Cornwall, we are a celtic nation for them.


And it must be said that if nothing else, their stance represents a more positive approach taken by a collective which does not seek to directly represent Kernow (or any of the other Celtic nations).

Quote
However i cannot agree with their euroscepticism or ethnic nationalism.

What do they think of English citizens with african or asian roots, is there a place for them in EIA's perfect England?


At this stage, I think you probably know more about them than I do, but their stance encourages me to investigate further. It's easier to identify a power of more universal good in some perspectives than others, and that was the angle I was coming from on this post. I think it would be a very positive step forward for everyone if - rather than attack each other - we established collective understandings on the inappropriateness of the current situation, and respectively debated more fair notions of how the ethnically diverse people of the British Isles should be represented. Clearly, no positive progress can be made if we all adopt a stance of attacking each other with notions of ethnic/culural 'superiority', and mass fingerpointing.

We need to move forward with notions that our regions are different; as British peoples we are ethnically/culturally different. Collectively, we need a more appropriate form of representation, which is ethnically/culturally/politically acceptable and more regionally appropriate.
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Coady Posted: 19.10.2006, 01:14

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I think you've been away too long. Going to St Just feast?

Graham.
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Penwithian_in_California Posted: 19.10.2006, 01:37



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Is that right? Well I respect your right to your opinion Coady; but remember, it is just YOUR opinion, and since it can't be determined objectively how long 'too long' is, maybe you should keep the post free of singular, biased attack and ridicule.

Whether or not I wish to go to St.Just Feast has no bearing on the feelings/viewpoints I express in this post. Whether or not you think I've been away 'long enough' to want to attend St.Just Feast is again, your subjective opinion, like the comments in my posts - as well as yours.

Your disservice is in representing your viewpoints through attack, rather than considered debate.
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Coady Posted: 19.10.2006, 01:41

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Get real...read my (friendly) post again..perhaps you really HAVE been away too long?
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Penwithian_in_California Posted: 19.10.2006, 02:00



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'Real' for who? Is it more 'real' that I base my opinions on what probability suggests will happen (in terms of the consensus), or what I truly believe in? I'll stay 'real' to my beliefs (which are shared by some other people), however 'unreal' they may be considered by others.

Sorry, but we all know posts don't communicate a tone of subtle jest or 'tongue-in-cheek'. May I suggest a Smiley?

I've never really thought about the issue of how long I've been away, but maybe I should consider it and reflect accordingly. Perhaps it appears that way to you, and again, I respect your opinion.
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Penwithian_in_California Posted: 19.10.2006, 03:45



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Correction..... that last sentance should read:

'I respect your RIGHT to air your opinion'.
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Fulub-le-Breton Posted: 19.10.2006, 18:03

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Quote
but their stance encourages me to investigate further


That would be a great idea and a few more friends in the English nationalist scene would not go a miss.
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homeruleforcornwall Posted: 19.10.2006, 18:29



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Quote
That would be a great idea and a few more friends in the English nationalist scene would not go a miss.


You might even find that you and people in the English nationalist scene have a deal in common. There is, in my opinion, no reason why different groups shouldn't work together.
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Penwithian_in_California Posted: 20.10.2006, 00:38



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Quote
That would be a great idea and a few more friends in the English nationalist scene would not go a miss.


I agree. From this proactive perspective of English Nationalism, there is a much greater sense of unity - even in difference. This should be the basis of progress for everyone; and would clearly produce the most profound results for all Nations seeking representation on the British Isles. The info I read on the EIA opened my mind to a level of integrity and morality that does indeed exist within a sector of English Nationalism, and its hard not to imagine a mirroring level of widespread support from Celtic nations - resulting from a more universal acceptance that there is no such thing as 'selective fairness'; there must be fairness for all, and this does not have to suggest compromise by any.

In my mind, the only way forward towards a practical solution is for the British peoples to abandon their collective fear of individuality and identity, and embrace the realities of their ethnic and cultural differences in a unified and collective effort. Personally, I am inspired by the concepts put forward by the EIA, and I see a significant sense of hope in their ambitions. However, we cannot forget that friends in English Nationalism appear few and far between. It is much easier to attack rather than listen and understand, yet much of the fury expressed on this board would be pacified if there was more of a sense that some of the views expressed by the EIA were recognised as rational and fair, for the benefit of England AND its Celtic Nations.
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Penwithian_in_California Posted: 20.10.2006, 00:40



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Quote
There is, in my opinion, no reason why different groups shouldn't work together.


As mentioned, totally agree.
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Fulub-le-Breton Posted: 21.10.2006, 14:14

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Quote
It is much easier to attack rather than listen and understand, yet much of the fury expressed on this board would be pacified if there was more of a sense that some of the views expressed by the EIA were recognised as rational and fair, for the benefit of England AND its Celtic Nations.


Like i said lets hear what they have to say on human rights, europe, immigration and racial/religious minorities.

Before that i can do no more than welcome their views on the Duchy.
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