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Cornwall excluded from Framework convention report..

grum Posted: 10.01.2007, 16:56

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Yes but is it racist?
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Hunlef Posted: 10.01.2007, 20:00

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To fail to accord respect to a community that regards itself as different and to fail to provide the pro rata financial means to promote that different culture is 'racist', albeit in an ethno-cultural sense
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frenchie Posted: 10.01.2007, 20:13



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QuoteThe above groups are mentioned in a context of being the beneficiaries of state funded support for their educational, social and health needs, as indeed, are "Irish Travellers" and "Gypsies" (which have been successful under the RRA and therefore really do qualify for public support).


We could fight them on the back of their own behaviour. All we need is a small group of 'Cornish Travellers'. Camping in a few english locations claiming RRA protection the same as the Irish Travellers did.

Anyone up for long camping holiday? icon_smile
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frenchie Posted: 10.01.2007, 20:17



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QuoteWhereas the Cornish are specifically excluded from the FCPNM for not having RRA case


The very fact that a minority area has been singled out so as to be excluded, seems like evidence of it's natural minority existence status, to me..
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Shaz Posted: 10.01.2007, 20:24

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"frenchie"
QuoteThe above groups are mentioned in a context of being the beneficiaries of state funded support for their educational, social and health needs, as indeed, are "Irish Travellers" and "Gypsies" (which have been successful under the RRA and therefore really do qualify for public support).


We could fight them on the back of their own behaviour. All we need is a small group of 'Cornish Travellers'. Camping in a few english locations claiming RRA protection the same as the Irish Travellers did.

Anyone up for long camping holiday? icon_smile


Maybe we can put it to the ones we know icon_smile
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grum Posted: 11.01.2007, 09:11

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"Hunlef"To fail to accord respect to a community that regards itself as different and to fail to provide the pro rata financial means to promote that different culture is 'racist', albeit in an ethno-cultural sense


That is the point really: I'm not sure the CRE is equipped to deal with that kind of racism. Protecting Vietnamese boat people from skinheads is far easier to identify, perhaps the differences between cornish and english are too subtle for that body's capabilities?
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Hunlef Posted: 11.01.2007, 23:57

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Quote
I'm not sure the CRE is equipped to deal with that kind of racism.


But it is admirably equipped since the legislation it uses, the RRA, is supposed to protect against discrimination on "any grounds".

Quote
Protecting Vietnamese boat people from skinheads is far easier to identify


Yes, because the Vietnamese have physical characteristics that are different from the BNP skinheads!

Quote
perhaps the differences between cornish and english are too subtle for that body's capabilities?


Firstly, there are no racial (physical) differences between these two groups.

But there is much much more than that, you see.

At the risk of repeating myself, the Duke of Cornwall gets his income from Cornish territory based wholly on feudal, discriminatory laws. The Duke also has "the right to control or otherwise intervene in proceedings affecting his rights, property or profits”. (Crown Proceedings Act 1947, Section 40, 2g ). The judiciary and legal profession as well as police officers and other public officials have a duty to pay due regard to the profits of the Duchy under the Duchy of Cornwall Management Act, and they have also sworn an oath of loyalty to the Crown to sew things up.

The Duke is, according to the Crown Proceedings Act, also "part of Her Majesty in her private capacity" and therefore the courts are honour bound to protect his income and interests as well as hers. This completely unjustified situation applies ONLY to the Cornish and their recognition is, as a result, intrinsically linked to the income of the heir to the throne. No other indigenous minority is subject to such treatment - that is a big difference and one that is distasteful for English courts because they are biased towards the Crown for the obvious reasons above.

The physical (racial) differences between the Cornish and English are non-existant - we are the same race as we have the same skin colour. The constitutional and cultural differences are, by contrast, immense.

Although the Scottish and Welsh are members of the same race, sharing identical physical features with the English, that has not stopped the English majority from recognising the cultural differences between them. So why can't the English respect their cultural differences with the Cornish?

The reason is political and relates wholly to the Duchy of Cornwall.

If one individual who, by accident of birth can exercise "the right to control or otherwise intervene in proceedings affecting its (his) rights, property or profits”. (Crown Proceedings Act 1947, Section 40, 2g ), who is running this country?

Clearly, if all this constitutional crap was removed, there could be no doubt that Cornish differences would be recognised, just as in the case of English, Welsh, Scottish, Gypsies, Irish Travellers, Sihks and Jews , by the government.
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grum Posted: 13.01.2007, 18:06

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"Hunlef"
Quote
I'm not sure the CRE is equipped to deal with that kind of racism.


But it is admirably equipped since the legislation it uses, the RRA, is supposed to protect against discrimination on "any grounds".



I meant practically, not theoretically. If it was that easy you'd have won already, wouldn't you?

"Hunlef"
Quote
perhaps the differences between cornish and english are too subtle for that body's capabilities?


Firstly, there are no racial (physical) differences between these two groups.

But there is much much more than that, you see.

At the risk of repeating myself, the Duke of Cornwall gets his income from Cornish territory based wholly on feudal, discriminatory laws. The Duke also has "the right to control or otherwise intervene in proceedings affecting his rights, property or profits”. (Crown Proceedings Act 1947, Section 40, 2g ). The judiciary and legal profession as well as police officers and other public officials have a duty to pay due regard to the profits of the Duchy under the Duchy of Cornwall Management Act, and they have also sworn an oath of loyalty to the Crown to sew things up.

The Duke is, according to the Crown Proceedings Act, also "part of Her Majesty in her private capacity" and therefore the courts are honour bound to protect his income and interests as well as hers. This completely unjustified situation applies ONLY to the Cornish and their recognition is, as a result, intrinsically linked to the income of the heir to the throne. No other indigenous minority is subject to such treatment - that is a big difference and one that is distasteful for English courts because they are biased towards the Crown for the obvious reasons above.

The physical (racial) differences between the Cornish and English are non-existant - we are the same race as we have the same skin colour. The constitutional and cultural differences are, by contrast, immense.

Although the Scottish and Welsh are members of the same race, sharing identical physical features with the English, that has not stopped the English majority from recognising the cultural differences between them. So why can't the English respect their cultural differences with the Cornish?

The reason is political and relates wholly to the Duchy of Cornwall.

If one individual who, by accident of birth can exercise "the right to control or otherwise intervene in proceedings affecting its (his) rights, property or profits”. (Crown Proceedings Act 1947, Section 40, 2g ), who is running this country?

Clearly, if all this constitutional crap was removed, there could be no doubt that Cornish differences would be recognised, just as in the case of English, Welsh, Scottish, Gypsies, Irish Travellers, Sihks and Jews , by the government.


If I am grasping this correctly....

The reason you don't get a fair hearing is because you are part of the Dukes interests, but being a Duchy is one of the principle reasons you are a minority, bit of a catch 22 situation there: remove the duchy, remove the difference, as it were.

As for the cultural differences, sorry mate, nowhere near enough to warrant special treatment from the CRE or similar IMO.
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Kerrow Posted: 13.01.2007, 20:02



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Grum, it is because of intrinsic characteristics, many based on historical factors, that the Cornish are a delimited ethnic group.

The House of Lords established the definition of what an ethnic group is and as you can see, because of the realities of Cornish life as lived out by our ancestors, in 2007 the Cornish are different from the English and from other ethnic groups:

Definition:

a)Possession and consciousness of a long shared history (These we have).
b)Cultural tradition of its own ie customs, manners etc. This does not necessarily imply religious observance. (There are many Cornish cultural traditions and manners, some of which, if you applied yourself, you would come to know about, some of which including a spectrum of communicative interactions that probably you wouldn't).
c) Common geographical origin or descent from a small number of common ancestors (These we have).
d)Common language but not one which is necessarily peculiar to the group (The Cornish language)
e) Common literature peculiar to the group (Cornish texts, dialect work, informed modern work)
f) Common religion differing from neighbouring groups or the general community (non-conformism).
g) Feeling of being a minority or of oppression from the wider community (These, unfortunately, we have).
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frenchie Posted: 13.01.2007, 20:06



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QuoteThe reason you don't get a fair hearing is because you are part of the Dukes interests, but being a Duchy is one of the principle reasons you are a minority, bit of a catch 22 situation there: remove the duchy, remove the difference, as it were.


The catch 22 is that when it comes to removing the Duchy, you have two versions to choose from.

One is the official version given by the Duchy - as used against the Crown in the Foreshore dispute of 1856 - that states that the Duchy is the whole territory of Cornwall.

The other is the official version given by the Duchy on their website - that the Duchy of Cornwall is a private portfolio of business investments.

When trying to establish which version of the Duchy should apply today. You could be expected to draw your conclusion from the way the current Duke goes about his affairs in Cornwall.

NO! This only adds to the catch 22 situation.
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frenchie Posted: 13.01.2007, 20:38



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QuoteGrum, it is because of intrinsic characteristics, many based on historical factors, that the Cornish are a delimited ethnic group.


Many of those historical factors include the Country of England maintaining Cornwall's independent position by creating the Duchy in the first place. Doing so 800 years ago, and still maintaining it today, is evidence that Cornwall still exists as a minority within England today. Why else would there be a different version of 'The Crown' in Cornwall? Why else would your unclaimed inheritance go to the Duchy, and not the Crown? Why else, if you became bankrupt, would any profits (but not costs) go to the Duchy?

Claiming that The Duke is acting in ways that is discriminative to a Cornish minority, as the CSP is doing, is simply the outcome of the Duke's own behaviour.

The simple history is this...

1. Cornwall was originally a separate Country to England.

2. The King of England then makes it into a Duchy for the Heir to the thrown to generate income from while he's practicing to be the next king. And in so doing essentially makes the Heir to the thrown 'the sovereign government of Cornwall'; a minority status within england.

3. The present Duke decides to re-interpret his responsibilities into nothing more than a private portfolio, while he still retaining all powers given to him as a royal ruler.


In my book, he's either the government of Cornwall, or he's no different to me as far as being a private business in Cornwall.

If he's the former then he should immediately stand down on the basis of having done nothing of benefit for the people of Cornwall. If he's the latter, then he should immediately give up all his royal prerogatives he applies to his Cornish business affairs.

It's not that hard to understand. Unless you're name is Charles Windsor..
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Mike Posted: 13.01.2007, 20:56

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The possession of the officially recognised Kernewek language as reflected in our place names and thus our culture and heritage is an important differentiating ethnicity factor.
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Shaz Posted: 13.01.2007, 21:07

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"Mike"The possession of the officially recognised Kernewek language as reflected in our place names and thus our culture and heritage is an important differentiating ethnicity factor.


Well Mike... You Cornish ain't English thats for sure, just a shame people need so much red tape bolloney all the time, a pity they cannot see and accept it for themselves icon_biggrin
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frenchie Posted: 13.01.2007, 22:09



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Everything done so far, so as to create a picture of Cornwall being part of England, has been done so by English people. At some time in history the indigenous Cornish knew they were part of a different country, a country separate to England. It's evidence was everywhere.

Today, many of Cornwall's population no longer still think this way.

The important question has to be why?

Have Cornish people over the years took part in a systematic process of diminishing their own cultural, historical and political heritage?

No.

All changes have been brought upon Cornwall by the English establishments. Every effort has been made to rid Cornwall of it's independent status - apart from the Duke and his Duchy; He's so greedy that he still wants to use the remaining aspects of Cornwall's unique heritage, i.e. the 'Royal Duchy' for his own benefits.

Why is it, that with so much questioning going on in Cornwall regarding it's true status, does the Duke and the Duchy remain not only silent, but hide behind a veil of royal secrecy and immunity?

There should be open dialogue between the Duke and the people of Cornwall regarding the current status and the future status of Cornwall.

Call on the Duke and his Duchy cronies to answer questions about the Cornish dimension.

Why should he remain so silent about his involvement, and his authority in Cornwall?

If the Duchy can stand up to the Crown regarding it's position only 150 years ago; standing up, as it did, for the argument that the Duchy is 'The whole of Cornwall', why, after such a short length of time, is it so ignorant, silent and reluctant to even associate with intelligent people who question the current status of Cornwall? People such as the Cornish Stannary Parliament, who are in effect the Duke's counterparts in the management of Cornwall, as set up by the Father of the first ever Duke - an English King.

Because it has manipulated the playing field; the Duke and his Duchy has ignored the Royal Charters and Pardons and has done exactly what so many English establishments and businesses have done in the past and continue to do so today..

It's gone for maximum bullshit and maximum profits.

While the Cornish swallow the Bullshit, the Duke and his backup system, continue to do to Cornwall what just about every other Duke in the past has done.

Take it for what it's worth..
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pfishwick Posted: 13.01.2007, 22:43

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QuoteEverything done so far, so as to create a picture of Cornwall being part of England, has been done so by English people.


Like the Norman French including it in Domesday?
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