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Newsnight

Egloshal Posted: 03.01.2007, 23:36

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What the guy trying to build a new history of the English language in these islands before the Romans has not considered is this...

The Saxons often translated previous Celtic placenames into their own tongue. Therefore Ampney being an island before the Romans was probably named Ynys Something-or-other until the Saxons got there in 600ish and gave it a Saxon name. If the English already inhabited England before the Romans... how come most of the rivers have Celtic names, and there are other British placenames around like Kent, Dover, London, Liss, Andover etc etc etc?
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Hunlef Posted: 04.01.2007, 01:54

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For once, I thought the programme was OK. It gave Pol Hodge a decent slot and it also gave plenty of time to the contrary view, especially the American academic from Oxford who kicked that Oppenheimer chap well and truly into touch. For the Celts, it could have been very, very much worse.
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1549 Posted: 04.01.2007, 09:43

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Celts

"One of the great cliches about our British view of history is that somehow we are "Anglo-Saxons" and the "Anglo-Saxons" in some way outbred or slaughtered the Celts.

It's a cliche which still infects some of our politics today - but is it built on historical nonsense? We explore a very different version of who we are - and of what happened to the Celts."

Watch it here -
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/6228647.stm
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TeamKernow Posted: 04.01.2007, 14:46

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From: Team Kernow
Sent: 17 May 2006 14:28
To: Jeremy Paxman
Cc: mark.thompson@bbc.co.uk -BBC Director General; john.humphrys@bbc.co.uk ; james.naughtie@bbc.co.uk ; info@icons.org.uk ...
Subject: University Challenge - refreshing reference...

Dear Jeremy

It was refreshing to find you teasing out distinctions, in the museum question, between museums located in Cornwall, Scotland and England in this year's University Challenge Final on Monday May 17th.

It is worth keeping uppermost in your mind that, while he may be British, a Cornishman is NOT an Englishman.

Here are some references to assist your orientation:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/actionnetwork/C42990?s_view=weblinks

http://teamkernow.newsvine.com/_news/2006/04/27/180362-cornwall-a-guide-to-her-contemporary-custodians

To truthful unspun futures!

Team Kernow

Reply:

From : Jeremy Paxman < jeremy.paxman@bbc.co.uk >
Sent : Wednesday, May 17, 2006 2:43 PM
To : Team Kernow
Subject : RE: University Challenge - refreshing reference...

You can always aspire, you know!

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morgarrow Posted: 04.01.2007, 15:33

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QuoteFor once, I thought the programme was OK. It gave Pol Hodge a decent slot and it also gave plenty of time to the contrary view.......


I would agree that the programme, "..gave plenty of time to the contrary view.." but the rest of the programme e.g. giant pasties on poles being waved as people crossed the Tamar shouting "On into England!" , pictures of the quaint old Gorseth ceremony stank of the same old excessively cute and quaint images that get peddled by unimaginative radio/television producers that makes Cornwall out to be peopled by throw-backs and loonies. When are we to see the same serious programmes around Cornwall's culture and politics as say is given to Wales, Scotland and even the Campaign for the North East from radio and TV producers we will be making some progress. At the moment all I see them doing is taking the proverbial "P"!!!

See them focusing on twee images like this in the North of Ireland, Palestine or Iraq? .... I DON'T THINK SO!
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Hunlef Posted: 04.01.2007, 16:06

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Quote
See them focusing on twee images like this in the North of Ireland, Palestine or Iraq? .... I DON'T THINK SO!


Perhaps not but at least, this time, the Cornish were spared the usual television treatment, such as was meted out a few years ago, in the Westcountry TV series devoted to the Seven Deadly Sins in which so-called Cornish nationalists were equated with German facists of the early 20th century.

Although we have a long way to go, at least Newsnight did not recourse to the usual methods. Yes, indeed, there was plenty of beards and sandals but it did illustrate a cultural difference between the English and the Celts of Britain. The programme emphasised that these differences were something that the Celts were proud of, whereas the English were still in a state of confusion.

This programme, for me, was a step in the right direction - a long way to go but at least we were spared the ITV ridiculous analogy of the Banner Kernewek with Swastika waving at Nuremburg.
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fancyabrew Posted: 04.01.2007, 19:50



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"morgarrow"
QuoteFor once, I thought the programme was OK. It gave Pol Hodge a decent slot and it also gave plenty of time to the contrary view.......


I would agree that the programme, "..gave plenty of time to the contrary view.." but the rest of the programme e.g. giant pasties on poles being waved as people crossed the Tamar shouting "On into England!" , pictures of the quaint old Gorseth ceremony stank of the same old excessively cute and quaint images that get peddled by unimaginative radio/television producers that makes Cornwall out to be peopled by throw-backs and loonies. When are we to see the same serious programmes around Cornwall's culture and politics as say is given to Wales, Scotland and even the Campaign for the North East from radio and TV producers we will be making some progress. At the moment all I see them doing is taking the proverbial "P"!!!

See them focusing on twee images like this in the North of Ireland, Palestine or Iraq? .... I DON'T THINK SO!


I thought I saw some MK members amongst them! :wink:
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TGG Posted: 04.01.2007, 23:49

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"1549 - Posted: Jan 04, 2007 - 09:43 AM"Celts
Watch it here -
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/6228647.stm


Thanks for the link!

Having watched it now, I feel that it was a reasonable programme but surprised at the prominence that Cornwall had within it! :?

The genetic information is interesting but has little to do with socio-cultural consciousness or political preference. If it had, there would be no such thing as civil war. The arguments for a Germanic advance guard are supported by a lot of 'ifs', 'mays' and 'mights'.

In order to understand how an alleged boatload(!) of Germanic invaders conquered the island of Britain, just analyse what is happening within Cornwall for some answers, and relate this to observations and commentary throughout 'Anglo-British' history. It is all a matter of 'who has the power', 'divide and rule', 'buy them off', quislings, fifth-columns, colonise etc. ad nauseum!

Happy Days!

TGG

http://www.kernowtgg.co.uk
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morgarrow Posted: 05.01.2007, 11:10

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QuoteI thought I saw some MK members amongst them! :wink:


icon_biggrin I'm sure you did fancybrew, but I am also 100% certain that there were some Tories and Lib Dems among them. :wink:

I've got nothing against the Gorseth or even people carrying giant pasties around as such (I'm sure both can be enjoyable - a debate in itself), it's the images that are peddled by those that only see Cornwall in terms of quaint old ceremonies, Celtic folk music, an overt interest in pasties, artist colonies, film of cliff top scenes and quaint fishing villages. Most Cornish including those that think of themselves as Celtic and Cornish do like living in the modern world, like modern music, interested in modern technology, go clubbing and even watch football (like fancybrew). Being Celtic is not synonymous to most of us with living in a Celtic twilight.

It's about time that programme producers stopped equating the word Celtic with long robes, beards, woad painted barbarians, harp music and wild scenic landscape. icon_lol I'm not writing this in an angry tone just feeling a little frustrated that Cornwall's image is so often that of a culture lost in the past rather than being one respectful of its past, but Celtic and firmly based in the present.

I think this is probably an argument for having our own media services.
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fancyabrew Posted: 05.01.2007, 11:36



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totally agree with you, being Cornish is nothing to do with the Gorseth or a like for pasties.
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Mike Posted: 05.01.2007, 11:50

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Quote
totally agree with you, being Cornish is nothing to do with the Gorseth

That's an extreme view. For some it might have all to do with being Cornish, for others nothing or not a lot.
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morgarrow Posted: 05.01.2007, 13:31

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icon_smile You've done a Jeremy Paxman on me there fancybrew ie changing the meaning to what I said. I agree however with Mike's reply.

Having said that we all enjoy our little sub cultures whether we be football fans, members of political groups or train spotters, but no matter how much energy and time we give to them what we mustn't forget is reality (no matter how much we'd like to).

I will add though that we owe a lot to those who spend a lifetime putting their energy and enthusiasm into such things as trying to save those bits of our older culture worth saving. From past experience I know how easy it is though to get carried away and think what's important to you must be important to everyone else.
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