And before anything else crops up, i dont think that would be a good idea either!
Remember in a few months there will be no factions (even if there is they will fade so quickly!) We'll all have to work together and we'll all be speaking to each other in the same form!
It's hard to tell exactly what people mean without a proper phonetic transcription. With <een> I taken it you mean [i:n] (rhymes with 'seen')?
Wrong, is relative
As both KK and KS spellings indicate, the vowel in <udn/unn/un/idn> is short. Pre-occlusion only occurs following a short vowel to this is a clear indication for vowel length (as is the double <nn> of course).
So KK <unn> without pre-occlusion has the short 'ü'-sound [Y] in German 'müssen' and a long 'n'-sound as in Italian 'Anna' [n:]. So KK recommends [Yn:].
KS recommends [Ydn]. However, KS allows for pronunciation without pre-occlusion [Yn], as well as unrounding of the vowel to [Idn]. [I] is the short 'i'-sound in English <in> 'in'.
Concerning the origin of the 'een' [i:n] mispronunciation I can only sispect it comes from misinterpreting vowel length in UC.
Dew Dyfen!, well I never, we will have to string that person up after the Revolution. Marhak and Dorkvyl, as accusers and executioners.Should be interesting times .Eh it could have been worse, the poor thing could have had a Welsh, or even an Amercan accent!.
IPA doesn't work well in e-mail correspondence, so the alternative ASCII compatible transliteration system X-SAMPA is often used for this purpose.
For recommended KK the 'correct' X-SAMPA is:
KK <gul> = [gy:l]
KK <unn> = [Yn:]
The differences between the two vowels are analogous to the differences in the vowels of 'bead' [i:] and 'bit' [bIt], only that [y:] and [Y] are pronounced with rounded lips.
Unrounded and pre-occluded pronunciations simply reflect a later stage of the language.
According to George unrounding happened c. 1625, though in my opinion (and this can bee seen from many earlier spellings with and <y>) this unrounding occurred quite a while before 1625.
George also says that pre-occlusion happened c. 1575. I'd date this earlier, too.
In any case where the pronunciation of <gul> is concerned, both [gy:l] and [gi:l] can be considered historical and correct. <Gul> also has the later form <gwyl> which I suspect developed from back-formation of the lenited form <wul> [wi:l] and inserting [g] analogous to <wyn> [wi:n] < <gwyn> [gwi:n] 'wine'. So later speakers re-analysed <wul> [wi:l] < <gwyl> [gwi:l].
Where <udn/unn> is concerned neither 'een' [i:n] nor 'oon' [u:n] are historically justifiable. [Yn:], [Ydn], [In], [Idn] are.
Keep your shirt on! Standard English doesn't have the [y: Y] sounds, German does, that's why I used the comparison.
You may have missed that I made an Italian comparison as well, don't you find that scary, too?
So in your experience users of UC and KK tend to pronounce UC <un> / KK <unn> with a long vowel (regardless of the difference in vowel quality)? If yes, why? Aren't there supposed to be only short vowels before <nn> /nn/ in KK phonology?
Re the mp3 on Warlinenn: what do you all think about the stressed vowel we hear in <peder>? Does the recording represent standard Revived Cornish pronunciation? Standard KK? Something else?
So we have 'een' [i:n] and 'oon' [u:n] and [Yn:] and [Ydn] and [In] and [Idn]. I know fluent speakers of many years' standing (and a few sitting) who pronounce <unn> as in the MP3 or as 'een'. Are these acceptable as 'accents' or 'dialects' of 21st Century Cornish or must the idolaters be hounded from the Duchy with flaming torches?
Devon had better get ready for the influx of KK refugees when the revoluton succeeds, and El Presidente issues his decree banning improper speeach,and mandatory diacritics on all Road Signs,
and Dorkvyl and Marhak and his Horse take control of the language police.
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