@Palores, FlammNew: thank you! Would it be fair to conclude that ['pEdEr] with a short stressed <e> (as in the recording), while not in line with the prescribed pronunciation of KK, is still representative of the way most people (including KK users) speak nowadays?
Caligula saw the sense of appointing his horse, Incitatus, as a Consul of Rome (the horse probably had more sense than the rest of 'em out together). I think that Paddy and I would better off carrying out a Goky Watch.
To the designers of KD, the varieties of spoken Revived Cornish are acceptable dialects which should be spared excessive streamlining. Opinions in other camps may differ.
I think it could depend on the perceived syllable break: PED-er or PE-der. The latter would have a longer E than the first.
You raise an important point: while choosing a SWF, do we force people to change their everyday, intelligible pronunciation to fit in with the SWF group's ideas of how things were said 400-odd years ago, or do we accept that Cornish has developed and moved on since the 20th century revival, and build a SWF around 21st Century Cornish as is currently used?
From a KD viewpoint, the answer to your question is clear:
The SWF itself should be a standard *written* - not *spoken* - form. The question of standard pronunciation should be considered separately. While this may sound more complicated than a straightforward adapt-to-the-standard-or-perish policy, it is the only way to treat today's speakers (and the varieties they use) with the respect they deserve.
Well fine, but surely there's an easier solution? Let everyone pronounce Kemmyn the way they currently do, as UC or UCR or LC, and move on to promoting the language. You are never, ever, ever going to find a SWF that pleases everybody so we should stop trying, pick a SWF that is acceptable to a simple majority of users and get on with the more important business, that of working together to ensure the future of the language.
We've done pretty well atracting supporters to our own compromise orthography. Some are even KK users. One even surprised me by signing up, as he was not so positive in discussions on the Kernowak list. (Note to Keith: the names will be published in due course; you can resist asking now.)
What do you think will happen if the Commission says that the SWF should be a Fifth Form and none of the existing four forms, FlammNew?
I think the result would be discussion and collaboration. We already saw this when UC, UCR, and RLC users talked together about the way forward. The result was KS.
How many of the 500 or so fluent speakers have signed up? Not a majority, I'll warrant. If you have 10% of them signed up I'll be surprised. I'm not a better but I'd wager that you could easily get a majority of fluent speakers to back Kemmyn.
You keep banging on about how Kemmyn hasn't persuaded 100% of speakers to use it, well no SWF will, KS included! If you think otherwise I'm afraid you are deluding yourself.
Goky,
I really don't know what's wrong with you. FlammNew and Nosdan asked a question concerning the pronunciation of KK/KS <unn/udn> and I tried to answer it to the best of my abilities and all you can contribute is silly remarks. Why? I believe that I was inclusive of all forms of Cornish in my answer.
I find the in the recording to be a little on the longish side. This probably is because English speakers aren't used to producing a tense high vowel short.
Quantity and quality is frequently misinterpreted by KK speakers many of whom believe that KK = long English "ee", and KK <y> = short English "i". This is not the case.
Many also fail to distinguish <oe> from <ow>, though I've heard the recommended pronunciations as well.
Do you think there are 500 fluent speakers?It's not a plebescite. It's an opt-in show of support. We have in a few weeks since the publication of the KS draft convinced a number of people (all of whom use the internet, a subset of Cornish users I am sure) that it was a direction for the language that they could support.
I think that we have succeeded in creating a compromise which a number of people who use UC, UCR, RLC, and even KK have said that they could support. That would be a number of people willing, for the good of the language, to move from what they are using to something else. For something better.
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INTERNET - CAMPAIGN FOR NATIONAL DOMAIN SUFFIXES
The Celtic League has urged the Cornish Language Partnership to support the campaign to adopt national internet domain suffixes for the Celtic countries. So far just Ireland and Mannin have national domain suffixes (ie and im respectively).
