Gunwalloe - Church Cove
View across Church Cove in Gunwalloe at the base of the Lizard Peninsula.
The church is St Winwalloe with it's distinctively seperate bell tower and surrounding Tamarisk hedge....
newlyn house
Wonderfully painted frontage....
rogers tower
A folly built 18th C, for Mr Rogers, a local landowner....
Well done Fancyabrew. At least you have been provoked into actually saying something.
Well of course organizations like Greenpeace, FOE and Gaia have to be challenged but at the end of the day we each have to make a balanced judgement on what we believe to be the most correct information available to us.
So, I might be naive but what agendas do YOU think that these organizations have ? What does Greenpeace have to gain from highlighting environmental issues ?
You are of course right that the whole waste issue in the UK is in a mess but that doesn't mean that we all give up. It requires pressure to be placed on the people who make decisions. People like CCC and that is what is happening with the incinerator issue. I am sure that many of us are doing what we can in different ways but thankfully for my sake AND YOURS organizations like Stig are prepared to go that extra mile and challenge CCC face to face.
Absolutely right.
This is where you lose sight of things.
What has to be considered is that once built this incinerator will HAVE to burn something for the next 30 years which is the duration of Sita's contract. Now, given that world opinion is moving towards a greener approach to dealing with the waste problem and this is something that you fancyabrew recognise, based on your statements, it is obvious that in a short period of time Sita will be struggling to find enough waste locally to burn. So what will they do. The beast has to be fed to return a profit for Sita.
The situation will be that when all of us are recycling and doing our bit, industrial waste will be brought in by Sita from who knows where and contain who knows what. We could even be burning waste from other countries in Kernow. When we reach that situation we are not dealing with Kernow's waste , we are just ensuring that Sita make a profit.
An incinerator is CCC's short sighted, quick fix solution to the land fill taxes. It is not the best solution and I believe they know that.
There are also the pollution problems with a single mass burn incinerator. The increased and longer lorry movements and pollution from the incinerator itself. If, fancyabrew, you had attended the Dr.van Steenis talk at St.Austell recently you would have heard probably the UK's leading authority on industrial pollution tell us that it is the things that they don't monitor sufficiently well that will do us the harm. Dioxins, heavy metals and particulates known as 2.5pm's will be harmful to people within a 20 mile radius of the thing.
So, to conclude, you seem to be aware of the problems but too readily accept that incineration is the answer. Mind you, if they were planning to build the thing in Polperro or Looe you might think differently.....and then you could join me in opposing it.
Really and what peer reviewed papers has he had published on this? What are your citations for those figures? You see for every scientists that you can pull out who’s work says one thing someone else will counter it, that’s how the scientific community works.
And I thought you said you weren’t against it because it was near you? You seem to be inferring that if it was built near me I’d be against it, I’m afraid I’m not that hypocritical.
You also keep mentioning this 30 years issues. This assume that the technology involved in the incinerator won’t change in that time scale or that legislation will stay constant, both doubtful.
I think you have me down as someone against the environment, I’m afraid you couldn’t be further off the mark. I work in a lab that spends most of its time researching the environment, I’m lucky that I see things divorced from the spin of organisations such as Greenpeace, et al. I also sit on the labs sustainability committee, I don’t drive a car and I travel via public transport to work and back (50miles) everyday, so I really do do my bit.
According to my internet research Dr van Steenis is a world expert in pollution matters and has given evidence to the House of Commons Select Committee, as well as having a number of reports published in four peer reviewed journals, including The Lancet. He has also lectured at five National and four International medical conferences. Dr van Steenis has been called as an expert witness at a number of inquiries, with his knowledge resulting in over twenty successful campaigns, which include incinerators at Hull, Norfolk and Killamarsh.
You are shooting yourself in the foot my friend. Incineration by definition is burning and no incinerator technology changes will get away from that. Burning valuable resources is not a good idea. What will change however is that other technologies will become available and building one mass burn incinerator doesn't allow the flexability to embrace new technologies simply because the incinerator will have to burn to return profit on investment. You are right though that legislation could and probably will change. It seems very likely to me that there will be a tax at some point on incineration just like there is now a tax on landfill.
This is truly commendable...and I do mean that sincerely but when promoting your carbon footprint you should also mention any holidays that you take such as air travel to the far east. (Apologies in advance if you rode your bicycle to the far east)
The fact of the matter is Cornwall has to have an incinerator. Why?
Several years ago CCC took the short term option of increasing the size of the nearly full United Downs Landfill site. However rather than spend the time they had bought themselves, working up a long term solution to landfill, in truee CCC fashion they sat around doing sweet FA and worrying about uit when the time comes.
Well now the time has come and with the time CCC have available to them they have to build an incinerator or else very soon the rubbish will be rotting in the streets.
From what I can see incineration is the only proven large scale option now available to CCC. Any other technology appears to be unproven on a large scale, perhaps if CCC had invested into a different technology (If one exists) several years ago they would now have a workable scheme.
What valuable resources??? Some “valuable resources” actually take more energy and effort to recycle than you would save by reuse. Not everything can be recycled.
And incineration technology can, doe’s and will change overtime. Things get more efficient, look at coal fired power stations for example, scrubbers in their chimneys have advanced far beyond what they were a few years ago.
Sorry won't catch me out on this one I contribute to a carbon of setting scheme via work.
CK you are right that CCC did not make the best use of the time they had but you are not right that Kernow needs an incinerator. My information is that the proposed incinerator is not due to come online until 2010 at the earliest so we have three years at least to get our act together.
Canberra, Australia (population 313,000) aims to be waste-free by 2010. It has made rapid progress, increasing its recycling rate by 92% in 2000-01 compared with 1995-96.
In England one local authority has already adopted a zero waste policy, namely Bath and North East Somerset.
The thing is CK that the governments own 'proximity principle' states the waste should be dealt with close to the source of the waste and not transported to one huge complex regardless of the technology used. Therefore smaller plants spread over the Duchy would be desirable and the technology exists, coupled with composting,AD and increased recycling to make it possible.
The result of improving the filtering of emissions from an incinerator stack i.e. scubbers, is that you collect more 2.5pm's which make up some of the most toxic fly ash. The only place apparantly at the moment that deals with fly ash is in Gloucestershire which means even more transportation.
Just had a weekend away with my sister. She and her boyfriend live on the Isle of Man where they have a big Sita incinerator. The locals are not happy with it, and even less so as thing is far too big for the local community so they have to pay Sita's extra fuel costs to keep it running - and they get rubbish imported from the mainland.
We already know that the proposed incinerator in Cornwall is exactly the same - far too big, so we'll end up picking up the tab for extra running costs.
Also, last month I went to Germany. They have a system in all of thier supermarkets (including some that we have here too) where you pay an extra 25 cents for a bottle of whatever. you get the money back when you take the bottle back. The bottle is then re-used, which is infinitely better than recycling. In Germany they call this 'pfand'.
My point is that there is so much that can be done, not just by us recycling, but also from manufacturers being responsible. Already I've noticed that its becoming more common to find boxed goods secured in cardboard rather than polystyrene, which is all steps in the right direction. (although I've heard that carbon offsetting is a con, but then, dont really know enough about it).
Finally, Fancy is dead right on the science thing. 'Fact' is a funny thing that really means 'opinion'. Its just that some opinions are better informed and worked out than others.
DuchyDame, do you think Cornwall can achieve in 2.5 years what Canberra are aiming to do in 15 years?
You somewhat missed my point, the new incinerator is due to come online in 2010. Something of that size does not appear overnight. It takes months of design, months for planning and probably 2 years for construction.
There is no time for another option (and the contracts are signed anyway!)
CK, a contract has been signed for Sita to handle Kernow's waste for the next 30 years. The contract is not to build an incinerator, just to handle Kernow's waste. Plans have not yet been submitted for an incinerator so as of this moment we are not bound to have an incinerator.
Canberra has a long term plan but the important thing is that Canberra increased its recycling rate by 92% in 2000-01 compared with 1995-96. Thats just five years.
With the political will from CCC Kernow could do the same.
You are right that a mass burn incinerator i.e. one single huge complex takes a lot of planning but smaller plants spread over the Duchy is the way to go.
The bottom line is that CCC are not providing the best solution for dealing with the waste. This is their quick fix solution.
and by how much have Cornwalls recycling rate increased over the same period or time scale?
Cornwalls kerbside recycling is actually bleedy good. We have a really good service provided by Sita and Polperro isn't the easiest of places to deal with. Bin collection (provided by Caradon)on the other hand.......shambles
Well if you see an improvement by Sita that's great. The thing is what they do with it after they have collected it.
FB you present yourself as an environmentalist so perhaps you could present your view of how the waste should be dealt with in Kernow. Lets have an in depth account of what you would do. I have presented my views now lets hear yours.
As I've said, I think that on balance, taking in to account various factors, as things stand in the short to medium term, that an incinerator is the best option. CCC have backed themselves in to a corner on this and need to take action pretty sharpish.
You seem to live in an idealised World, trouble is that’s not where we find ourselves.
We are not talking about the short to medium term we are talking about 30 YEARS. That's 30 years of incineration, 30 years of being locked into a single technology.
Can you tell us FB what happens to the incinerator if in a few years time new technology becomes available to deal with our waste ? Who compensates Sita if there is nothing to burn ?
I suspect it is us the taxpayer but perhaps someone from Stig can provide us with the actual answer to this.
So as an environmentalist and having "taken into account various factors" an incinerator sits comfortably with you ?
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