I am a Cornishman and I would be most gratefully for your aide in a question that puzzles many Cornish folk.
The question is a basic one and that is:
What is Cornwall?
Is it a county of England, a county of the UK (but not England) a Duchy or a combination of all of these.
It is still common for Cornish folk to refer to Cornwall as a Duchy, are they misguided and if so should they be informed of their mistake and told once and for all that Cornwall is just a County?
Please could you answer my question taking into consideration the following facts.
1) This definition of county in the Complete Oxford English Dictionary. 2nd Ed 1989 p. 1044.
Whence county was gradually adopted in English ( scarcely before the 15th century ) as an alternative name for the shire, and in due course applied to similar divisions made in Wales and in Ireland, as well as the shires of Scotland, and also extended to those separate parts of the realm which never were shires, as The Duchy of Cornwall, Orkney and Shetland. Part definition of the term County.
This would seem to indicate that Cornwall was a Duchy, a county but not part of England.
2) The Duchy charters which are still law turned all of Cornwall into a Duchy.
3) Taken from Cornwall County Councils website:
In the 19th century the legal arguments of Sir George Harrison, Attorney General to the Duchy of Cornwall, defeat the Crown's aspirations of sovereignty of the Cornish foreshore. The Duchy that Cornwall argues the Duke has sovereignty of Cornwall and not the Crown. During the same case, Parliament defines the Cornish as "aborigines".
On behalf of the Duchy in its successful action against the Crown, which resulted in the Cornwall Submarine Mines Act of 1858, Sir George Harrison (Attorney General for Cornwall) makes this submission.
That Cornwall, like Wales, was at the time of the Conquest, and was subsequently treated in many respects as distinct from England.
That it was held by the Earls of Cornwall with the rights and prerogative of a County Palatine, as far as regarded the Seignory or territorial dominion.
That the Dukes of Cornwall have from the creation of the Duchy enjoyed the rights and prerogatives of a County Palatine, as far as regarded seignory or territorial dominion, and that to a great extent by Earls.
That when the Earldom was augmented into a Duchy, the circumstances attending to it's creation, as well as the language of the Duchy Charter, not only support and confirm natural presumption, that the new and higher title was to be accompanied with at least as great dignity, power, and prerogative as the Earls enjoyed, but also afforded evidence that the Duchy was to be invested with still more extensive rights and privileges.
The Duchy Charters have always been construed and treated, not merely by the Courts of Judicature, but also by the Legislature of the Country, as having vested in the Dukes of Cornwall the whole territorial interest and dominion of the Crown in and over the entire County of Cornwall.
This legal case again would suggest that Cornwall (the county) is a Duchy.
4) Taken from Cornwall County Councils website:
In 1969-71 Kilbrandon Report into the British constitution recommends that, when referring to Cornwall - official sources should cite the Duchy not the County. This was suggested in recognition of its constitutional position.
I believe the report said a Duchy in England however.
5) Taken from Cornwall County Councils website:
In 1863 the Duchy of Cornwall Management Act confirms that the Duke possesses seignory and territorial rights befitting a king.
6) Taken form Cornwall County Councils website:
In 1889 (1st April) Cornwall County Council is created by the Local Government Act of 1888.
This act however does not do away with the Duchy or state if Cornwall is a county of England.
As you can see there is much information that contradicts the common perception of Cornwall as a county of England and goes some way to support the opinion of many Cornish folk that Cornwall is in some way different.
I look forward to your help in the clarification of this subject
Many Regards
CC to Oxford University Press, Encyclopaedia Britannica, Duchy of Cornwall and the UK home office.
Instead of harassing the Council over what exactly is Cornwall - perhaps we should first all send letters regarding the state of climate change, and get them to act on something of MAJOR concern.
The Cornish debate will always be there - though our ozone layer will not.
Why do we only have to do one or the other? Does CCC only have time to worry about climate change? Will one person asking a legitimate question about Cornwall's constitutional position cause the whole of CCC to grind to a halt while it's answered?
Of course not, CCC is over-manned and like all local and national government it wastes huge sums of our money (e.g. £100k to put up four bollards in St Ives, the bottled water fiasco etc., etc., etc.). Their time and our money would be much better spent addressing people's genuine concerns and interests, and if one or two people there actually spent a day or two pinning down Cornwall's constitutional position once and for all, we'd have an answer (at long last) and they could go back to saving the planet.
Pretty quick response from Oxford University Press, thanks to them.
Your enquiry to Oxford University Press has been forwarded to me at Ask Oxford. We are experts in English language usage, not in constitutional law, and therefore cannot make any sort of authoritative pronouncement.
Since there is a county council in Cornwall, but the Duchy still exists as a legal entity, I conclude that Cornwall must in some respects be both a county and a duchy. The OED entry for 'duchy' notes that the term is used of two ancient dukedoms held by the Royal Family - Cornwall and Lancaster - 'having certain courts of their own, in which respect they differ from ordinary peerage dukedoms'. To the extent that the Duke of Cornwall no longer has sole feudal rights over the territory, the designation of 'Duchy' for the geographical area of Cornwall may in some degree be a historic or honorific title rather than a strict designation of administrative status. The title of 'Principality' is still given to Wales because of its historic associations, despite the lack of any governing role for the Prince of Wales. I would have thought that the legal statements alluded to do not remove Cornwall from England, since the interest and dominion of the English Crown is vested in the Duke of Cornwall, not ceded to him.
The term 'county' was until recently applied to a set of geographical and administrative units into which England, Wales, Scotland, and Ireland were each divided. Many of these are no longer administrative units, but the name is still applied to the geographical areas. The comment quoted from the OED entry merely notes that Cornwall was not, under the Anglo-Saxon system of local law, administered as a 'shire', but did nevertheless come to be called 'county' in modern English. It was incorporated into the nationwide system of county administration, and though its status is undeniably different from other counties, I see no reason to suppose that it is not a county of England. Anomalies abound in English governance, which has resulted in various kinds of curious status, either historical or continuing, for other districts such as the Royal Forests, the Soke of Peterborough, the County Palatine of Durham, the Universities of Oxford and Cambridge, and the Isle of Wight. The notion that a 'county of the UK' might exist separate from the constituent nations seems improbable: Cornwall has surely been treated as part of England since the unification of that country under the Saxon kings.
I worked with autistic people in Cornwall and for two years i worked with people who had a history of homelessness, drug and mental health problems. I also try to recycle as much as possible and do write about environmental issues.
I try to make a difference, and you two?
If you are saying this subject does not interest you fair enough but why then suggest i cannot possible be concerned about humanitarian issues and have my priorities wrong, seems a bit like a petty attack really.
I wish that were the case however with learning French, generally integrating to life in France and doing a Teacher training course i find Little time for writing such letters but i still manage.
Record Office Staff are not in a position to offer legal advice, so I regret that we are unable to assist you with your query. I see that you have also contacted the Duchy of Cornwall and the Home Office: as they are better placed to answer your question, I suggest that you await their response.
Yours sincerely,
Archivist
Cornwall Record Office
Sounds evasive to me and i was not really asking for legal advice just what, in the opinion of the Council, Cornwall is. Surely CCC has an opinion as to what Cornwall is?
I tried asking the Earl of Wessex's equerry for an official definition of Wessex once. He never replied.
Anonymous
Posted: 03.06.2005, 16:48
Unregistered User
[quote="Fulub-le-Breton"]Pretty quick response from Oxford University Press, thanks to them.
In 1337, previous to the ‘infamous charters, the County (aka Comitatus or Earldom) was created forever to remain as a Duchy to the eldest son of the reigning monarch. Within this title there existed the administration and government of the territory (aka vicecomitatus or shreivalty) – therefore two entirely different entities but territorially the same (qv. make up of kingdoms et al.)
,
At the time of creation the people of Cornwall were the subjects of the Duke. By what constitutional means would it be legitimate to say “no longer�?
The point that is always being avoided is the fact that Cornwall is not and never has been “in England�. If the presumption is to the contrary, then please give details of when this momentous constitutional event took place!
The same comment here as above. Please give another instance of an anomalous non-English 'British' territory being subsumed by imperial arrogance and ignorance.
That is precisely what is at the root of the Cornish Paradox. If Cornwall is to be considered an administrative division of anywhere, it rightfully belongs to the Cornish Nation – the oldest named nation of this island.
This is simply not true! Cornwall has been a dominion territory of the English [& British] Crown but its medieval distinction from England, and the Crown, is enshrined in law and constitution with the ‘restoration’ of the Dukedom in 1337
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