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WHAT IS CORNWALL?

pfishwick Posted: 09.06.2007, 22:33

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QuoteCornwall is not an English county but a constitutional Duchy. I would argue that one of the reasons for its creation was to recognise the Cornish people AND their land as apart. This is still the case.

A simple English county has no argument for devolution. A constitutional duchy with indiginous national minority has a very strong argument for more real political autonomy.


Who are you to say that a "simple English County" has no argument for devolution? Of course they do - that's why for example the Tory party supports the scrapping of the unelected RAs and RDAs and devolving of those powers to the county councils.

One rule for you, one rule for me icon_confused

Patrick

"You can't have an isolated little UK on its own"

(Meur ras JA, just modified you words for the benefit of UKIP),

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Fulub-le-Breton Posted: 10.06.2007, 12:35

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QuoteOne rule for you, one rule for me

Yes its called asymmetric devolution. If you're trying to convince me that a county of a nation and a nation have the same needs for devolved governance you are barking up the wrong tree.


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angofbew Posted: 10.06.2007, 22:16

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P.Fishwick said:
that's why for example the Tory party supports the scrapping of the unelected RAs and RDAs and devolving of those powers to the county councils.

The Tories are not the only Political Party that wants to do away with these quango's. MK are always saying in the Media that these unelected Bodies are a waste of Time and Money. On their History you have to agree.
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marhak Posted: 11.06.2007, 17:57

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The Sheriff and Lord Lieutenant of Cornwall are both appointed by the Duke, as far as I'm aware, which may be unique in Britain. As is the Duke's ownership of the foreshore, his right to bona vacantia, etc. Constitutionally Cornwall is very different to anywhere else in the UK.

In times past, inclusing Sir George Harrison's submission, the use of the term "county" (as in County Palatine)translated "communitas", i.e. unit or entity of community. It did not mean "shire county" as used since 1888 in particular. Cornwall was not added to the 1888 Act until the following year. Why? It was a back door addition and probably unlawful. The fact that over a century has passed does not give it lawful status.

No, I don't have it wrong about education. Are Hunlef and I both wrong? My teachers tried to instill "Englishness" into me and my classmates. More recently, a parent had to take a child away from a primary school - the child insisted that he/she was not English but Cornish. The teacher ended up screaming at the child over and over: "You are ENGLISH! You are ENGLISH!", reducing the kid to tears. Being Cornish in Cornwall under an English system is like living in the old Soviet bloc. Our Cornish Celtic heritage is now marketed as being the heritage of a people who weren't even in Britain until 450 AD, and probably didn't set foot in Cornwall until the 9th century AD. Is Chysauster English? Or Castle-an-Dinas? What about Tintagel, now shown to have been a seasonal seat of Cornish (not English) kings? The 12th century castle was built by the Norman-French Earl Richard. Neither part of the site's history is English but that's how it's marketed and people like Coady are content to stand by and see it happen.

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goky Posted: 12.06.2007, 00:22

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Turning Cornish people into victims will not help anyone.

Blog Gokypyth yw 'Agan Tavas"?, Agan Tavas yw Eddie Climo.
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morvran Posted: 12.06.2007, 04:09

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Nosdan
QuoteSo rights that are normally held by the Crown are farmed out to the Duke.
However seeing as the Crown never actually conquered/annexed Cornwall formally, it would seem its the other way round. Its always held by the Duke if there is no Duke the crown looks after it until a new one arrives.


There's always a Duke, it's a corporation sole, there is always one, and can only be one at a time. But, you can be Duke and King at the same time, wear both hats.

What probably happened way back when, was the feudal equivalent of a "sale and lease-back". The original ruler of Cornwall surrenders to the ruler of England and pays homage. That means basically kisses his arse and accepts him as his feudal superior, liege lord and all that. He then gets most of his powers and territory back but with conditions attached, and he holds them as feudal tenant of his superior.

Clearly the Dutchy of Cornwall, like the Welsh marcher lordships, got a lot more rights than a bog-standard English baron. Which probably means that Cornwall should have something like the status of the IoM and Channel Isles. However these territories have well established legal systems, courts and parliments of their own. Tynwald is older than Westminster. Cornwall afaik has never operated it's own legal system, it just let the English come in and run everything. So I'm not really sure where that leaves us.

I'm also very confused by people's attitude to the Dutchy. On the one hand I seem to be hearing, "the existence of the Dutchy proves we're different from the English", but on the other hand I hear, "the Dutchy has too much power, too many special rights etc. and need to be cut down to size". Are you trying to have it both ways??

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morvran Posted: 12.06.2007, 04:13

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Fulub-le-BretonTo put in another way, which of the following situations would benefit the Cornish (ethno) territorial identity and which would damage it. The promotion and us of such terms as:

1)'Westcountry', 'South West Region', 'Devon and Cornwall' etc. or

2) 'The Duchy of Cornwall', 'Duchy' etc


The trouble with Cornwall is it's small size. Why don't we demand union with Wales?




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marhak Posted: 12.06.2007, 07:21

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Yeah, but who is turning Cornish people into victims, Goky. Not us. Look further east, my friend.
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Fulub-le-Breton Posted: 12.06.2007, 09:53

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QuoteI'm also very confused by people's attitude to the Dutchy. On the one hand I seem to be hearing, "the existence of the Dutchy proves we're different from the English", but on the other hand I hear, "the Dutchy has too much power, too many special rights etc. and need to be cut down to size". Are you trying to have it both ways??


????

So you fail to understand that the Duchy is, in sorts, a recognition of the historic special status for Cornwall and, at the same time, a possible current impediment to Cornish empowerment? Why?

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Fulub-le-Breton Posted: 13.06.2007, 10:43

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So well put I thought it needed to be reproduced here.

TGG
Coady - Posted: 12.06.2007, 14:31
Of course I don't dispute Cornwall's 'differentness', nor its claim to nationhood, yet somewhere along the roads of history it failed to become a state, or if it ever DID reach that level, failed to hold on to statehood.
Graham.

It did reach the level of a state with the creation/restoration of the Duchy - according to the unbiased view of Richard Pearse “The Land Beside the Celtic Sea” p. 52. ISBN PB 0 907 566 499 (Truran).

The UK Government has criminally manipulated this into a ‘Private Estate’ by somehow severing the Government of Cornwall from the Duchy. The civil government of Cornwall came under the vicecomitatus (the ‘modern’ county), which was an inalienable part of the Duchy (i.e. annexed and united to forever).

The sophisticated way that this has been achieved, has created the totally erroneous perception that Cornwall is, and has always been, only a county in the modern sense of a mediaeval tax district. I bet that gets a few cogs grinding?

Just think! Cornwall has not always been what you think it is today. The status today is built upon high-level lies and, consequently, so has the formal education process. How, therefore, can we (the powerless) through tutored ignorance have the knowledge, or confidence, “to hold on to statehood” within this corrupt multi-national State? Such a 'holding on' could only be maintained (historically) by remaining aware that England is the other side of the Tamar!

TGG



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Nosdan Posted: 13.06.2007, 12:16

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QuoteI'm also very confused by people's attitude to the Dutchy. On the one hand I seem to be hearing, "the existence of the Dutchy proves we're different from the English", but on the other hand I hear, "the Dutchy has too much power, too many special rights etc. and need to be cut down to size". Are you trying to have it both ways??




The charter of creation - the first charter created a Duke, the Duchy or Nation of Cornwall already exsisted. So the Duchy is what we want to restore - But on the other hand, the Duke has too many special powers. He also does nothing for us! If you try to take him to court, (for a duchy related cause) you'll find he can intervene in the proceedings and basically stop the court action, not that any lawyer or judge in the land would allow it to go through!


Mar vedhow avel gelvinek
(as maazed as a curlew)
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moonshine Posted: 13.06.2007, 12:39

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Quote
The charter of creation - the first charter created a Duke, the Duchy or Nation of Cornwall already exsisted.


A point that is often overlooked.
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TeamKernow Posted: 13.06.2007, 13:27

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http://andymanchesta.com/ICONS/1%20(67).gif The Absentee Duke of Cornwall http://andymanchesta.com/ICONS/1%20(67).gif

http://andymanchesta.com/ICONS/1%20(67).gif Chairmanhttp://andymanchesta.com/ICONS/1%20(67).gif

http://andymanchesta.com/ICONS/1%20(67).gifDuchy of Cornwall( Corp. Div. ) Rip Offs,http://andymanchesta.com/ICONS/1%20(67).gif

http://andymanchesta.com/ICONS/1%20(67).gifEnvironmental Disfigurementhttp://andymanchesta.com/ICONS/1%20(67).gif&http://andymanchesta.com/ICONS/1%20(67).gif Social Disruption Enterpriseshttp://andymanchesta.com/ICONS/1%20(67).gif


High time,in this non-feudal 21st Century (ho,ho) for Cornwall 'County' Council,acting in the best interests of its people, to demand that all Duchy of Cornwall assets and incomes held in and derived from the people of Cornwall be placed in trust in perpetuity and administered from within Cornwall for the benefit of the people of Cornwall.







edited by: TeamKernow, Jun 13, 2007 - 03:00 PM
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marhak Posted: 13.06.2007, 15:49

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Is everyone aware that the Stannary has had a case against the Duke accepted by the European Court and will be heard in the not-too-distant. The basis of the case, as I understand it, is the Duke's unconstitutional exemption from "equality before the law". Any Stannator on this forum might be able to tell us more.
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Fulub-le-Breton Posted: 09.07.2007, 18:37

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You might know this website already but if not it's a useful and concise introduction to the constitutional history of the British and Irish Isles: http://www.mac...itishisles/

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