search pnForum latest posts Note: Registered users can subscribe to notifications about new posts Note: Registered users can subscribe to notifications about new posts

to previous topic Print topic to next topic

Start ::  Cornwall24 Discussion ::  Cornish Language, Culture and History ::  SWF, For or against
Moderated by: Admins

Goto page : Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 Next Page
Bottom 

SWF, For or against

morvran Posted: 14.03.2008, 15:26

morvran

registered: Mar. 2007
Posts: 880

Status: online
If ME were a real linguist interested in his subject, rather than a weird coding nerd, when I showed him where I thought _uw_ came from he would have said, "that looks interesting" and gone off to check the data to see if he agreed, or maybe could find a slightly different and maybe better explanation. Instead he just denies the whole idea. Why, because it goes against the Holy Word of Nynja. All Everson does is to quote from the works of his Boss -- "His Master's Voice". In several years of discussions with him, I have never seen him advance a single novel idea.

Even if Tregear and CW show signs of orthographic adaptation to Cornish (which I rather doubt) they'd be the exception to prove the rule. They come at the tail-end of Middle Cornish writing, so he's admitting that all the earlier stuff is written in a thoroughly English manner. It's not "English Bad" (morally presumably), but "English spelling seriously unsuitable", "bad" if you like in the way that a blunt knife is "bad" for cutting.

As for, what was his phrase, ah yes, "sustained opposition from people to whom the heritage of the texts was important". Who are these people please and could any of them read the texts if they were put before them? These are mostly people who can't understand any kind of Cornish, the very familiar (to Cornish speakers) "Good Intentions Brigade" for whom the language is a sort of pure unrequited passion.

Top  Profile send PM
 
Evertype Posted: 14.03.2008, 15:48

Evertype

registered: Mar. 2007
Posts: 956

Status: offline
last visit: 10.05.08
morvranIf ME were a real linguist interested in his subject, rather than a weird coding nerd,
Ad hominem bluster.
Quotewhen I showed him where I thought _uw_ came from he would have said, "that looks interesting"
I did say that it looked interesting. I don't think it's likely, though. In the first place the "phoneme" is a bit unlikely.
Quoteand gone off to check the data to see if he agreed, or maybe could find a slightly different and maybe better explanation.
Bzzzzzt. Thank you for playing. Do you think that such a theory would get by in primatology? Scientist A: "Lemurs prefer to groom their sisters to their brothers." Scientist B: "Show me your data." Scientist A: "Go look for it yourself."
QuoteInstead he just denies the whole idea.
I think the phoneme */yʊ/ is unlikely, yes. And as you have produced no proof, only an argument, I have no reason to think otherwise. Your argument is neat. But that doesn't make it a proof, and you have to do the work of providing the proof.
QuoteWhy, because it goes against the Holy Word of Nynja.
What utter nonsense. Nicholas' word is by no means "holy" and he is neither our leader nor our guru. We (in UdnFormScrefys) worked together collectively and by consensus. Authoritarianism is your bugaboo, not ours.
QuoteAll Everson does is to quote from the works of his Boss -- "His Master's Voice".
I have quoted Nicholas. I have also co-authored text with him. Your ignorance is showing.
QuoteIn several years of discussions with him, I have never seen him advance a single novel idea.
Yawn. "Damn Everson by hyperbole." Recently Nicholas, Ben, Albert, and I were talking and we worked out something very interesting about tth though.

QuoteEven if Tregear and CW show signs of orthographic adaptation to Cornish (which I rather doubt) they'd be the exception to prove the rule.
All of the orthographies are "adapted to Cornish". Real Cornish. Not that geminate-ridden construction of your own Master.
QuoteThey come at the tail-end of Middle Cornish writing, so he's admitting that all the earlier stuff is written in a thoroughly English manner.
No, I am not. You bleat it often enough end evidently you believe it. To me it makes you look rather ignorant about medieval orthography in general.
Top  Profile send PM Homepage
 
Eddie-C Posted: 14.03.2008, 16:50

Eddie-C

registered: Mar. 2007
Posts: 585

Status: offline
last visit: 04.05.08
morvran. . . What do you call someone who repeatedly utters untruths?
Well, you fit the bill pretty well, as do your fellow 'Wormtongues' (whom I have named previously on this forum).

So, I guess *I* would call that sort of repeatedly untruthful someone 'morvran', 'bardh' (of the 'cragh' variety), Steve the Fool . . . and let's not forget Paul the Appauling.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Kernowak y'n Udn Form Screfys?
Hep wow!
Kernewek Acordys? Mar plek!
Top  Profile send PM
 
morvran Posted: 14.03.2008, 16:55

morvran

registered: Mar. 2007
Posts: 880

Status: online
Prove I've told a lie, Eddie. You're talking out of your arse man!
Top  Profile send PM
 
goky Posted: 14.03.2008, 17:44

goky

registered: May. 2007
Posts: 1234

Status: offline
last visit: 11.05.08
Eddie talking out of his arse, what a sight.!


Blog Gokki,(Gokky's Blog)Skodhyewgh An Furv Skrifys Savonek !
Kernewek rag an Gour Gwir updated.
Top  Profile send PM Homepage
 
Eddie-C Posted: 14.03.2008, 18:02

Eddie-C

registered: Mar. 2007
Posts: 585

Status: offline
last visit: 04.05.08
morvranProve I've told a lie, Eddie. You're talking out of your arse man!
But, Keith, I thought you'd already established (to your own satisfaction, at least), that one doesn't need to prove anything, but can just make unsubstantiated statements, and leave it up to other people to find the proof.

After all, you've been doing just that with your proof-free arguments about your imaginary 'yw' words, on this very thread.

And the proof of your untruthfulness (or otherwise) is in the public domain, in the archives of C24 and CornishOrthography, under your various pseudonyms.

Hoist with your own petard, laddie!

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Kernowak y'n Udn Form Screfys?
Hep wow!
Kernewek Acordys? Mar plek!
Top  Profile send PM
 
morvran Posted: 14.03.2008, 18:17

morvran

registered: Mar. 2007
Posts: 880

Status: online
That's just an assertion. Show where I've deliberately told a lie. If you find I've made a mistake by accident, then I'll apologise (which is more than you lot ever do!)

As far as _uw_ goes please re-read the relevent thread here. I've already said all I need on that score.
Top  Profile send PM
 
fwltur Posted: 14.03.2008, 23:07



registered: Apr. 2007
Posts: 161

Status: offline
last visit: 10.05.08
EvertypeTerry Corbett's last is just special pleading. We have the texts we have. There are orthographic patterns in them which suggest a tradition. There was Glasney too. Saying "there might have been a whole lot of other texts in a different orthography" is wishful thinking (if you wish to think that Cornish had no scribal tradition).


You still haven't answered my question about the authors of the texts. Who were they? What does "There was Glasney too mean? Is there any proof that any of the manuscripts were written there?

EvertypeAnd Terry? Be a mensch, will you? "Technocrats"? If you want people to know that I helped to encode the Cherokee script in Unicode, say so. You might also point out that the special characters used in Lhuyd and Pryce for Cornish phonetics were also encoded by me.


Michael Everson helped to encode the Cherokee Syllabary in Unicode. A historically significant character was omitted from this encoding.

By the way what is the Unicode for Lhuyd's upside down small l?
Top  Profile send PM
 
Evertype Posted: 14.03.2008, 23:16

Evertype

registered: Mar. 2007
Posts: 956

Status: offline
last visit: 10.05.08
fwlturMichael Everson helped to encode the Cherokee Syllabary in Unicode. A historically significant character was omitted from this encoding.
At the request of the Cherokee experts. Because nobody used it.
Top  Profile send PM Homepage
 
fwltur Posted: 15.03.2008, 02:20



registered: Apr. 2007
Posts: 161

Status: offline
last visit: 10.05.08
Evertype
fwlturMichael Everson helped to encode the Cherokee Syllabary in Unicode. A historically significant character was omitted from this encoding.
At the request of the Cherokee experts. Because nobody used it.
It would be more accurate to say that nobody currently uses it. It was used in manuscripts.

But enough of that. What about the questions I asked? You have been very critical of Keith for not giving supporting facts. Where are your supporting facts about the Cornish manuscript authors?
Top  Profile send PM
 
Evertype Posted: 15.03.2008, 13:55

Evertype

registered: Mar. 2007
Posts: 956

Status: offline
last visit: 10.05.08
The names and identities of the individual people who wrote in the scribal tradition is irrelevant. As is the question of whether any particular document was written at Glasney itself. Anyone with a modicum of training can see that there was a scribal tradition, not an ad-hoc set of writers out there inventing Cornish orthography on the fly based on their knowledge of Middle English. If you want to believe that myth of George's, go right ahead.
Top  Profile send PM Homepage
 
fwltur Posted: 15.03.2008, 15:34



registered: Apr. 2007
Posts: 161

Status: offline
last visit: 10.05.08
fwltur...

Evertype... You might also point out that the special characters used in Lhuyd and Pryce for Cornish phonetics were also encoded by me.

...
By the way what is the Unicode for Lhuyd's upside down small l?


Still haven't answered my question about Lhuyd's upside down small l.
Top  Profile send PM
 
Eddie-C Posted: 15.03.2008, 17:42

Eddie-C

registered: Mar. 2007
Posts: 585

Status: offline
last visit: 04.05.08
The Unicode codes you need for 'Inverted small letter I' are:
#0131 (UTF8: C4 B1)- under 'Latin', LATIN SMALL LETTER DOTLESS I
. . . plus . . .
#0323 (UTF8: CC A3) - under 'Diacritics', COMBINING DOT BELOW

I'm no expert on Unicode, but it took me less than a couple of minutes to find this information on my computer, using no more than the free Character Palette software that came bundled with the operating system.

No strain for anyone with a modicum of intelligence to find it out for themselves, Terry.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Kernowak y'n Udn Form Screfys?
Hep wow!
Kernewek Acordys? Mar plek!
Top  Profile send PM
 
goky Posted: 15.03.2008, 17:56

goky

registered: May. 2007
Posts: 1234

Status: offline
last visit: 11.05.08
Quotemodicum of intelligence

Well that describes Eddie.


Blog Gokki,(Gokky's Blog)Skodhyewgh An Furv Skrifys Savonek !
Kernewek rag an Gour Gwir updated.
Top  Profile send PM Homepage
 
fwltur Posted: 15.03.2008, 18:01



registered: Apr. 2007
Posts: 161

Status: offline
last visit: 10.05.08
Eddie-CThe Unicode codes you need for 'Inverted small letter I' are:
#0131 (UTF8: C4 B1)- under 'Latin', LATIN SMALL LETTER DOTLESS I
. . . plus . . .
#0323 (UTF8: CC A3) - under 'Diacritics', COMBINING DOT BELOW

I'm no expert on Unicode, but it took me less than a couple of minutes to find this information on my computer, using no more than the free Character Palette software that came bundled with the operating system.

No strain for anyone with a modicum of intelligence to find it out for themselves, Terry.


I know how to find the upside down i. I am looking for the small L. Fonts sometime displays the Capital i and lower case L so they look the same. That's the reason for your misinterpretation. If you may recall in the old days of library card catalogs they used a special loop L because of this. Now try looking at those same charts for an upside down small L. I haven't been able to find it.
Top  Profile send PM
 
Goto page : Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 Next Page


Users online:
gravydave - pfishwick - Mike - TheMagicRobot - fletch_2002 - morvran - P_Trembath - srule - angofbew

This list bases on the users active in the last 60 minutes
Cornwall24 2006 (c) web design & web hosting by a-connect
Sponsors: Cornwall hotels, Cornwall self-catering, Cornwall restaurant guide,Devon
Cornwall 24 news feed
Cornwall 24 News and Views