V Tree
A large V shaped pine tree on the Antony estate near Torpoint...
Seaton Beach
Located at the bottom of the Seaton River valley this sand and shingle beach is popular with families. At low tide it joins up with Downderry around the headland...
Seaton River
The Seaton River as it flows out of the valley and through the village of the same name...
Portwrinkle
Looking down over the one time fishing village of Portwrinkle. In the background is the start of Whitsand Bay as it stretches 4 miles down the Rame Peninsula...
Yes, the Kesva was set up by the Gorsedd and the FOCS in (I think) 1967, to administer, research and promote the Cornish language. It did so for 20 years. Then, for whatever reason and due to whatever mechanism, it ceased to do so. Instead it promoted only one new version of revived Cornish, paid lip service to the older one, and studiously ignored the existence of RLC and, later UCR, and the research that was done by both.
It lost its original mandate, and did so through its own actions. It was no longer the body for THE CORNISH LANGUAGE - only for one version of it. Which is why other bodies, such as Agan Tavas, Teere ha Tavas and Cussel an Tavas Kernuack, were then set up, to do for their preferred types of Cornish what the Kesva was no longer prepared, or willing, to do.
As a result, the Kesva has no seniority over the others. None whatsoever.
I guess I get no points then, and it's game set and match to you. You're just so good at the game, you always win. It would help if I knew what the rules were, of course.
Anyway, remember I did say it was a rumour. But since I posted it here, I've been sent (by one 'redennek', probably an anonymous Kebmynite) a copy of your paper.
And I'd say that what you've written above is not quite in line with the paper (nor was the rumour, of course). But let others judge - it's only a page long, so perhaps you could post it here?
Oh, and to answer Nosdan's question, it does include pre-occluded 'nh' - 'dnh' - as in 'gwanna', 'gwanha', 'gwadnha'.
I wonder if this
[quote = Marhak]The late Cecil Roberts of Sennen Cove (who had a lot of traditional Cornish and knew all the coastal names) used to pronounce "Scilly" with two distinct ls, rather like saying "ill-lit" and I wonder if this might be a hangover from the language introducing the second L with a slight "h" sound ("sil-hlee"). Any opinions?[/quote]
and
[quote = Evertype]Incorrect. We would not suggest that every "double l" or "double n" be written as <lh> or <nh>. The feature is not found in words like tesennow~tesednow. It is only found in words like perfettha, gwelha, gwannha~gwadnha. (Phonetics: [pərˈfɛθhə] > [pərˈfɛθːə], [ˈɡwɛlhə] > [ˈɡwɛlːə], [ˈɡwanhə]~ˈɡwadnhə] > [ˈɡwanːə]~ [ˈɡwatnə]
[/quote]
Perfyttha etc. might be taken at face value were it not for the many more examples of <tth> written in words where no gemination or aspiration would be expected, like koedh and dhedhi quoted before. Nb. it's important to distinguish gwella 'to get better' (intransitive) from gwell'he 'to make something better' (causitive transitive). As a rule the aspiration is lost unless the syllable is stressed, so gwell + hav 'best' would probably give 'gwella with the usual Cornish double l sound (whatever that was!)
You would need to show a greater than chance occurance of <lh, nh> etc in words with historic /h/ and their absence from a control group of words which never had an /h/. I haven't counted the cases yet, but it looks very much as though the <h> spelling has no bearing on the history of the words, i.e. it's purely orthographic. So we're back to Williams' old game of arguing from selected instances.
EDIT : I'll sort out a list for you tomorrow perhaps. Do you have a photocopy of the Tregear mss? I'm relying on Ray Edwards' reading but he was very thorough and from the samples I've seen it's quite a clear script.
I count 12 words in the entire corpus with <tth>, 10 of which are in Tregear. You are citing words in Kernowek Kebmyn spelling. Kindly point us to you Tregear citations for "koedh" and "dhedhi".
Yes, Keith, I have a copy. I'll type in the words from my version tomorrow too.
We are looking for lh and nh in Tregear also.
PC and I think RD have <tth> both in forms of the verb ladha. I don't think the tth is related to what Tregear was doing. I'd have to have a second look. It's late, and Patrick's Day at that.
I don't believe my thinking on this issue is incoherent. The document is here. It is not a complete argument. It does not cite all of the examples of the three graphs in Tregear. I would be prepared to make such an argument however.
This is a very skewed view of history. Dick Gendall and Co. broke away from the mainstream a few years before Ken published PSRC. Their breakaway had nothing whatever to do with Kemmyn, although after Kemmyn was adopted, at the point where it was still unclear whether or not it would take off, it was the Late crowd who piled in, with criticism in the press etc., trying to take advantage of what they saw as a weakness in the mainstream. Aside from this nastyness, the Late faction have a valid point of view. Just most of us don't think it's workable. And the proof is in the outcome. Very few people have supported Late over the years and hardly anyone who started by learning Late has reached fluency. Neil is on record about this. I think there may be a fair few beginners and 'Good Intentions' types attracted to Late, but they never get very far with it. Either they drop out or they change to another variety. Dick's 'rebellion' was supposed to be due to a row he had with the Kesva (probably when most of the Old Guard were still running things) over reprinting Kernewek Bew. Larry knew all about this, more than he was prepared to tell in fact.
The AT hijack has already been described in glorious technicolor so I don't need to repeat that again -- ask Pawl when he's back, he's an eyewitness. AT publishes very little and has never even offered to take over the UC exams, or develop its own for UCR. I rather doubt if the language would get very far if it had to rely on AT's efforts. One or two individuals do good work, I'm sure, but it really is one or two.
These two splinterettes have largely survived because of outside backing. Why should anyone back them? As a way to weaken and destabelise the Revival as a whole. When will Marghek etc. wake up to the fact that they're being used?
Charity to send more Burma kits
A Cornish charity packs another 1,000 survival boxes after becoming one of the first teams into the Burmese cyclone zone.
Brown wants more homes for young
Gordon Brown says he wants to help young people in Cornwall buy houses
Gangmaster hits back after losing licence
A gangmaster has spoken out after having his licence revoked amid claims of forced labour.
Pupil's punishment 'not enough'
A mother criticises a one-day suspension for a pupil who attacked her daughter at a Cornish school.
Prime Minister visits Eden
The Prime Minister made an impromptu visit to Cornwall today and enjoyed an extensive tour of the Eden Project.
Flora day celebrations
Thousands flocked to Helston's ancient Flora Day on Thursday and while they arrived in their droves, rain - thankfully - stayed (mostly) away.
RAF Nimrods 'had fuel problems'
A Nimrod plane in which 14 servicemen including a Cornishman died had a fuel problem, an inquest hears.
