V Tree
A large V shaped pine tree on the Antony estate near Torpoint...
Seaton Beach
Located at the bottom of the Seaton River valley this sand and shingle beach is popular with families. At low tide it joins up with Downderry around the headland...
Seaton River
The Seaton River as it flows out of the valley and through the village of the same name...
Portwrinkle
Looking down over the one time fishing village of Portwrinkle. In the background is the start of Whitsand Bay as it stretches 4 miles down the Rame Peninsula...
Jenefer e-mailed me yesterday morning to say that the AHG members had been circularised with a slight rewording (of something - don't ask me what) for their agreement and prompt response, so that she could get the notes out (presumably to everyone, or, more likely, to the Secretaries of the language groups plus the Partnership) today.
By lunchtime today, she still hadn't got all the responses and is desperate to get the notes out tonight. So, it's down to the AHG members getting their fingers out.
Can't say that I'm overly happy with the terms "main form" and "side form", as the latter implies diminished importance and might start up yet more "us and them" nonsense. In fact, apart from official use and the early stages of formal education, the two are totally equal in status (and only certain things are different about them). I'd be happier with "official form" and "traditional form". Tim can then call me a "Traditionalist" instead of an "Authenticist" - a change is as good as a rest and I like the term rather better!
There are several possible conclusions which we can draw from this. Either Michael Everson believes himself to be a member of the monarchy, or he suffers from multiple personality disorder, or he has fleas, or he is an editor, or he wishes us to believe that his views are shared by many.
Either Michael will tell us which of these fascinating possibilities are true, or we must draw our own conclusions.
Only risible if you're stuck in schoolboy humour.
So? That sound may be later than you prefer, but it is certainly well attested, both in modern place-names, and of course in Lhuyd's description of spoken Cornish. And many of you -- including Ken George -- pronounce <oe> as [u:]. So what is the problem?
Of course, of course. I am a faithless fiend who wants nothing more than to mislead people. At least I'm brave enough to let people know who I am, Palores.My, my. It didn't occur to me to think that "historically correct" spellings would be considered to be unacceptable. My reading of PSRC here is that George expresses a preference, but since "it suggests [u:] rather than [o:]", what is the problem, since it is in fact pronounced [u:] by many speakers of Revived Cornish.
Nonsense! Say the word "withhold" or the phrase "with him".
English and Cornish have the sequence. But Dene Suline has a phoneme [tθʰ].
You have it backward. A sequence of morphemes led to [θh], [lh] and [nh] being written <tth>, <lh>, <nh>. Gemination seems certainly to have occurred with <lh> and one may posit it for the others. But the gemination is secondary. And not inherited from the earlier period.
But probably the main audience for the SWF will be schoolchildren, so one can hardly be dismissive about "schoolboy" [sic] humour in the circumstances.
That is not a reason to prefer <oe> to <oo>. And I said "schoolboy humour" because that's the set phrase. Do schoolgirls giggle as much over the same things?
This doesn't work with my variety of English [wID] + [(h)Im] = [wI'DIm] (like "within" apart from the different final nasal). I can do [wID 'hold] but only with a clear syllable break. It's noticable that in neither case is the /D/ devoiced to [T] let alone aspirated. Indeed the /h/ is probably partly voiced.
I had considered Gwich’in http://www.lang...gwichin.html which is either closely related or another name for the same languge. These languages are characterised by an extensive array of affricates /ts, tK, tT, tS/ all of which come in plain, aspirated and glottalised varieties (all phonemic). But note, these are all affricates, the plain /s, K, T, S/ do not have corresponding aspirates (or glottals). Exactly the same thing is found in Mandarin where the affricates pattern like the plain stops with aspirate and non-aspirate versions (in Pinyin <z/c, zh/ch, j/q>) whereas the plain fricatives do not. Even in Tlingit http://www.lang...tlingit.html which has glottalised fricatives (derived historically from the glottalised stops) there are no aspirated fricatives. My conclusion it therefore that this variation is somehow associated with the stop onset of the affricates. There is a paper on the net somewhere (I read it recently but didn't save the link) on the physical realisation of the three affricate classes in Apachie, IIRC the aspiration is realised immediately after the stop element as a delay in the onset of the fricative coda.
The problem with this idea is that according to Williams' view, gemination was lost at the time of the (early) Prosodic Shift. Once the distinction between single and geminate consonants was lost it could never be regained, so your explanation of <lh, nh> falls down just as does your explanation of preocclusion (as pointed out by Dr. Chaudhri). The original /-h-/ in the subjuctive stem and the superlative ending generalised to the comparative) geminated the preceding consonant, and in the case of stops the result became voiceless in accordance with the rules of Brittonic phonology. By the time that had happened (before the end of OC no doubt) there was no longer an [h] present, only the gemination. Take that away (as Williams claims happened with the PS) and you've effectively sawn off the branch you need to sit on.
Well, I say [wıθhold] without hiatus as do millions of English-speakers. Do you say [wıθold] in your dialect? No [h] in "withheld"? I say [wıθ hım]. I distinguish "wither" [wıðɚ] and "with her" [wıθ hɚ].
In any case, [θh], [lh] and [nh] were a sequence of consonants at a morpheme boundary that may have geminated to [θ:], [l:] and [n:]. Our point was that the SWF should not have Tregear's <tth> without the other two.
1) The Kesva continues to offer examinations written in UC to this day. Original writing in UC, however, has been steadily petering out.
2) The proponents of Early Modern Cornish as a basis for a standard were quick to distance themselves from both Kesva and Kowethas. They still haven't managed to settle on a fixed orthography: indeed, they've been more interested in polemic in English than in promoting Cornish. The Kesva is in fact more than ready to hold examinations in EMC spelling - provided the group wanting them can agree on waht that might be!
Interesting question, clearly we need a subcommittee to ponder this fundamental question. I can't give you a rational explanation but <oo> just looks silly in the middle of a line of Cornish. It's not that <oo> isn't common enough in English "moon" "soon" "look" "soot" ... so I really can't explain it, but it still looks really silly.
You see the problem with making up your own names for things, Tim? You've got me all confused, trying to puzzle out which version of your own ad hoc nomenclature you're using this time.
If I remember aright, you use the name 'Modern Cornish' to denote what most people refer to as 'Common Cornish' (or KK). So, presumably 'Early Modern Cornish' would be the first draft of KK, you know, the one with the spurious <tj> and <dj> graphs included.
But it's fascinating to hear from you that George (and the other 'proponents of EMC') distanced themselves 'from both the KKesva and KKowethas'. I'd never heard of that rift before; was that before or after they'd engineered the take over in that rigged meeting in Truro in 1987 (you know, the one that 'never happened')?
And as for the KKesva being ready to set up 'examinations in EMC spelling', it's a shame that George and the rest of his chums 'can't agree' on how to spell it after 20 years or more.
If I didn't know the level of respect you accord to accuracy and honesty, I'd suspect you of being economical with the untruth!
Charity to send more Burma kits
A Cornish charity packs another 1,000 survival boxes after becoming one of the first teams into the Burmese cyclone zone.
Brown wants more homes for young
Gordon Brown says he wants to help young people in Cornwall buy houses
Gangmaster hits back after losing licence
A gangmaster has spoken out after having his licence revoked amid claims of forced labour.
Pupil's punishment 'not enough'
A mother criticises a one-day suspension for a pupil who attacked her daughter at a Cornish school.
Prime Minister visits Eden
The Prime Minister made an impromptu visit to Cornwall today and enjoyed an extensive tour of the Eden Project.
Flora day celebrations
Thousands flocked to Helston's ancient Flora Day on Thursday and while they arrived in their droves, rain - thankfully - stayed (mostly) away.
RAF Nimrods 'had fuel problems'
A Nimrod plane in which 14 servicemen including a Cornishman died had a fuel problem, an inquest hears.
