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Start ::  Cornwall24 Discussion ::  Cornish Language, Culture and History ::  Kernewek Mashup
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Kernewek Mashup

Fulub-le-Breton Posted: 09.03.2008, 14:57

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Just a little example of what your bickering fuels: http://mudhook....ewek-mashup/

QuoteKERNEWEK MASHUP
15 February 2008
Parturient montes nascetur…Kernewek mashup.

They have laboured and produced a new, credible, viable, seventh, version of Cornish. No doubt it will have an uplifting adjective attached until it becomes just Kernewek.

It is a mashup of the present varieties of Cornish (listed, if you are really interested, here) and tries to accommodate the various spellings and sounds in a single spelling system. It is intended - hoped - that this is the version that will be seen as the official, standard one and will be paramount for writing; a single written form of the language. The current others will become variants, probably still used by some of their present devotees. I think that over time the users will develop naturally a living standard as happens in every language and these days of disagreement will be an unhappy far-off memory. Of course controversy will always accompany language usage but it will be about the Cornish homologues of the intrusive r and different from/ to / than and the death of the subjunctive in English, the whole world to a few, nothing to most.

There’s still much to do: for example, a dictionary, the spelling of place names, how to invent new words for new things that will come along. Despite the welcome from most users and friends for the cooperative work and its fruits after years of factional disagreements, there has been much public contention from a few and if that spirit prevails all will be lost - you and I may fume about global warming, poverty, terrorism, inflation; these people rage about how to spell words in a reconstructed language. The silent majority of the level-headed among the present Cornish users must cry themselves to sleep.

By the way, what’s Cornish for mashup?


ALL HAPPY WITH YOURSELVES?

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goky Posted: 09.03.2008, 15:13

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what was that about? just someone else ranting, so what.
Anyway we have given up on this SWF thing.

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Fulub-le-Breton Posted: 09.03.2008, 15:16

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gokywhat was that about? just someone else ranting, so what.
Anyway we have given up on this SWF thing.


One more individual committed, so it seems, to undermining the Cornish movement.

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goky Posted: 09.03.2008, 15:36

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Depends on how you define the 'Cornish Movement' and who is attempting to run it, the politicians, or the speakers.

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Nosdan Posted: 09.03.2008, 16:20

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I wish chris would kick Goky... He's such a troll.



edited by: Nosdan, Mar 09, 2008 - 04:21 PM

Mar vedhow avel gelvinek
(as maazed as a curlew)
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Fulub-le-Breton Posted: 09.03.2008, 16:24

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Indeed.

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TheElvenLord Posted: 09.03.2008, 19:21

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A vrewis??

Mashed/ Mashup

TEL

Everything is impossible until it is not.
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pdunbar Posted: 10.03.2008, 14:09



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Fulub-le-BretonJust a little example of what your bickering fuels: http://mudhook....ewek-mashup/

ALL HAPPY WITH YOURSELVES?


Fulub, as the Cornish Democrat, shouldn't you support the wish of the majority of Cornish speakers as to how they wish to spell the language?

Also should you not question the validity of the conduct of the Partnership which breaches Nolan on several fundamental points as well as coming squarely within the parameters of Wednesbury unreasonableness?

The problem with mudhook's comment is that, just as the rights and wrongs of an argument in a language one doesn't understand is unascertainable, so is an argument about a language one doesn't understand.

Without a thorough understanding of the subject, making a judgement at all is foolish.

Judging all parties to a dispute to be equally at fault is the sort of behaviour that little old women who 'can't bear argument' indulge in, with self-righteous clucks.

Perhaps 'mudhook' is a little old lady?

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Nosdan Posted: 10.03.2008, 14:47

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Quotemajority of Cornish speakers
Has the survey details been released... i don't think so?

QuoteJudging all parties to a dispute to be equally at fault


by my book they are... perhaps for all different reasons... But all parties are as biligerant as each other.

Mar vedhow avel gelvinek
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morvran Posted: 10.03.2008, 15:27

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Nosdan
Quotemajority of Cornish speakers
Has the survey details been released... i don't think so?


That is our point too!

Quote
QuoteJudging all parties to a dispute to be equally at fault


by my book they are... perhaps for all different reasons... But all parties are as biligerant as each other.


So we're supposed to sit here and smile sweetly while people tell bare-faced lies about us. Why shouldn't we be entitled to a fair hearing?




edited by: morvran, Mar 10, 2008 - 03:27 PM

Seventy Percent of "competent & frequent" Cornish users prefer to write KK! (MAGA/CLP Survey)
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Nosdan Posted: 10.03.2008, 17:21

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I'm not saying either side is worse than the other, but taking moral high ground would suggest you do sit and smile.

The continuous to and fro on these forums is clear to even the most impartial observer to be a waste of time and energy, and all those involved are being idiotic.


Think of it outside the kernewegoryon box for a moment.

These people are arguing about the spelling system of a language that has been dormant for 200 odd years spoken by a few and fluently so by even less like it was the brink of nuclear war! The main sticking point is they have 3 perfectly good spelling systems - 2 additional compromises and a state backed compromise being developed with the differences incredible small, whimsically so. The spoken form remains intelligible between all factions as does the written forms.

It reminds me of the episode of Red dwarf "waiting for god" when they decipher the cat bible and find the cat people had holy wars over the colour of their hats!

Now who thinks Holy wars are sensible?


Mar vedhow avel gelvinek
(as maazed as a curlew)
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Fulub-le-Breton Posted: 10.03.2008, 17:40

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QuoteFulub, as the Cornish Democrat, shouldn't you support.....


blah blah blah..... Really don't get it do you?




edited by: Fulub-le-Breton, Mar 10, 2008 - 06:41 PM

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Mike Posted: 10.03.2008, 18:04

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Fulub-le-Breton
QuoteFulub, as the Cornish Democrat, shouldn't you support.....


blah blah blah..... Really don't get it do you?
edited by: Fulub-le-Breton, Mar 10, 2008 - 06:41 PM


The Kernewek language is the only real thing that sets Cornwall apart from other parts of the UK and so is pretty fundamental to any Cornish cause. I would find it incredibly easy to argue that other topics are not too dissimilar in Cornwall, especially many that you discuss Fulub.

As a consequence the language is very important and the experts should be allowed to discuss it freely. That everyone can defend their point is democracy. Otherwise we will end up with a meaningless hybrid and be subject to ridicule. The form of language chosen should be self-consistent and not a mixture. If this is achieved, it does not matter what 'mudhook' and the like think as the expertise is above them.
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pdunbar Posted: 10.03.2008, 18:17



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Fulub-le-Breton
QuoteFulub, as the Cornish Democrat, shouldn't you support.....


blah blah blah..... Really don't get it do you?
edited by: Fulub-le-Breton, Mar 10, 2008 - 06:41 PM


Fulub, you extensively quoted an 'outsider viewpoint' article by 'mudhook' and then made the comment 'ALL HAPPY WITH YOURSELVES?'

You comment on my posting was 'blah blah blah..... Really don't get it do you?'

Could you please explain a little more clearly the point which you are trying to make?

- Pawl




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Cawsando Posted: 10.03.2008, 18:31

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He's saying that the point Mudhook has put forward is that we are not strengthening the prestige of the language by attempting to say one form or other is better, whether it's been created by one man, whether its a mixture of periods, or whether its a reconstructed late 19th century version.

The point is, damage continues to be dealt to the repuation and authenticity of the language worldwide whilst it is fractured.

Hence the importance of all speakers pledging alliance to the SWF.

Myself, like many, are not ready to learn the language properly until the complete SWF is agreed upon.

Double the interest will arise once that difference has been concreted.

I would suggest that Mudhook is a miserable Plymouthian, with a little to much time on his hands.

There is a lot of anti cornish feeling in Plymouth.

We should have cornish classes there when the SWF is ready, there are many cornish men and women about who would learn.



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