search pnForum latest posts Note: Registered users can subscribe to notifications about new posts Note: Registered users can subscribe to notifications about new posts

to previous topic Print topic to next topic

Start ::  Cornwall24 Discussion ::  Cornish Language, Culture and History ::  Maps of Cornwall
Moderated by: Admins

Goto page : Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 Next Page
Bottom 

Maps of Cornwall

Ellery Posted: 03.03.2007, 03:31

Ellery

registered: Jan. 2007
Posts: 286

Status: offline
last visit: 01.05.07
Pydarshire, Triggshire, Powdershire, etc...etc...


We will make Cornwall see the lies.
We will open up their eyes.
We Cornish born and bred.
We fight on till we all are dead.

http://petition...nocide-1549/
Top  Profile send PM
 
Fulub-le-Breton Posted: 09.03.2007, 12:47

Fulub-le-Breton

registered: Sep. 2004
Posts: 4365

Status: offline
last visit: 07.10.08
Now thats better!: http://en.wikip..._Kingdom.png

The Cornish Democrat
The Breton Connection
Top  Profile send PM Homepage
 
Fulub-le-Breton Posted: 17.03.2007, 12:21

Fulub-le-Breton

registered: Sep. 2004
Posts: 4365

Status: offline
last visit: 07.10.08
Fantastic map of Breizh to be bought, how about a map of Kernow like this!!!: http://www.geob...er-grand.asp

Geobreizh: http://www.geob...a/poster.asp

The Cornish Democrat
The Breton Connection
Top  Profile send PM Homepage
 
Fulub-le-Breton Posted: 02.05.2007, 12:10

Fulub-le-Breton

registered: Sep. 2004
Posts: 4365

Status: offline
last visit: 07.10.08
Wikipedia maps of Cornwall: http://en.wikip..._of_Cornwall

The Cornish Democrat
The Breton Connection
Top  Profile send PM Homepage
 
Fulub-le-Breton Posted: 06.05.2007, 14:20

Fulub-le-Breton

registered: Sep. 2004
Posts: 4365

Status: offline
last visit: 07.10.08
West Wales: http://www.whit...sles_802.jpg

http://www.mapa...b3d7aac995fc

The Cornish Democrat
The Breton Connection
Top  Profile send PM Homepage
 
Coady Posted: 07.05.2007, 20:29

Coady

registered: May. 2006
Posts: 1918

Status: online
Oh, Fulub..Those last maps seem to show West Wales/Cornwall as an integral part of Wessex, was that how it was seen in 802 AD??
Graham.

We live in interesting times.
Top  Profile send PM
 
GoghiennVarow Posted: 08.05.2007, 08:39

GoghiennVarow

registered: Sep. 2006
Posts: 166

Status: offline
last visit: 10.09.08
QuoteThose last maps seem to show West Wales/Cornwall as an integral part of Wessex, was that how it was seen in 802 AD??


Unlikely, considering (according to the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle)Cornwall was not, "harried" by Egbert of Wessex until 814, and the Tamar boundary was not fixed until c.936 by Aethelstan, I suggest this map is more illustrative of the attitude of whoever drew it in the c.1950's than any remotely accurate historic political reality.
Top  Profile send PM Homepage
 
Fulub-le-Breton Posted: 08.05.2007, 10:57

Fulub-le-Breton

registered: Sep. 2004
Posts: 4365

Status: offline
last visit: 07.10.08
Doubt it Coady, just another map to add to the thread.

The Cornish Democrat
The Breton Connection
Top  Profile send PM Homepage
 
Coady Posted: 08.05.2007, 11:09

Coady

registered: May. 2006
Posts: 1918

Status: online
Thanks GV and FLB. saved me researching!!

Graham.

We live in interesting times.
Top  Profile send PM
 
Fulub-le-Breton Posted: 08.05.2007, 11:56

Fulub-le-Breton

registered: Sep. 2004
Posts: 4365

Status: offline
last visit: 07.10.08
The thing to take away Coady is that all these maps point to there being something different and particular about the history of Cornwall, something decidedly "non-English shire".

The question then has to be asked why is it that we had to find all this out ourselves? Why is it not covered in schools?


The Cornish Democrat
The Breton Connection
Top  Profile send PM Homepage
 
CJenkin Posted: 09.05.2007, 14:20



registered: Jan. 2005
Posts: 709

Status: online
CoadyOh, Fulub..Those last maps seem to show West Wales/Cornwall as an integral part of Wessex, was that how it was seen in 802 AD??
Graham.


The relationship between Wessex and Cornwall seems to be unclear at this time. What we know is that Egbert launched raids into Cornwall demonstrating that it was an independent polity. We know that the Cornish retaliated with the help of the Vikings but were beaten in battle by Egbert at a site referred to as hengestes dun (often interpreted as Hingston Down, near Callington BUT could equally be Hingston Down near Moretonhampstead). There are three charters from Egbert concerning Cornwall at this time, because of these many english historians have assumed that Egbert conquered Cornwall HOWEVER all of these are medieval copies and in most there are later examples which contradict ownership. It does seem that they may be medieval forgeries. To add to this view there are a number of independent sources which refer to Doniert rex Kernow drowning in 875 AD. Long after Egbert and when Alfred was on the throne of Wessex. Alfred built a system of burghs around the fringes of his territory to protect it and its people, this not only included Wessex but territory acquired from Mercia, Kent & Sussex. His most westerly burgh, a relatively small one was at Lydford, protecting the navigation of the Tamar. There are no Alfredian burghs in Cornwall. Alfred also left a will. His will does refer to territory belonging to him in Cornwall BUT it is extremely limited. Firstly the manor of Stratton in Trigg (nearer to the north East border than Bude! at the Tamar headwaters) and some other territory connected with Lydford (This may well be the Werrington Estate which was governed as part of Devon until the 1950s) but is now back in Cornwall. What is quite clear though is that he held no estates in other parts of Cornwall, which is what would be expected if he had political control of the whole territory.

Things seem to change after 930 - we have english being used in documents concerning Cornwall and landowners using English names BUT they often also have a Celtic Cornish name suggesting that English cultural interference had only recently arrived on the scene and that we are still dealing with native landowners here again indicating that there was no real conquest by Egbert. The real contenders for conquering Cornwall are either Athelstan (930) or William (1067) and even then its quite clear that Cornwall still has a largely autonomous position, even until the advent of the Duchy (1337).
Top  Profile send PM Homepage
 
TGG Posted: 09.05.2007, 15:33

TGG

registered: Aug. 2005
Posts: 1103

Status: offline
last visit: 03.10.08
CJenkin - Posted: 09.05.2007, 14:20
... The real contenders for conquering Cornwall are either Athelstan (930) or William (1067) and even then its quite clear that Cornwall still has a largely autonomous position, even until the advent of the Duchy (1337).

Possibly subjugation is a better phrase to describe what may have transpired at that time because 'conquer', imho, would have made all this forum and years of hard labour totally anachronistic. Subsequent events would also suggest subjugation - dominion and protection [q.v. Duchy documents; ASC 926 & 942 and Edmund's Charter of 944].

Also written in Cornish Granite is the fact that this very high-ranking political accommodation of Cornwall - which effectively removed the somewhat nebulous nature of the Earldom - was a restoration, in 1337, of its "pristine honor". This was a status reinforced by the First Duke of Cornwall in 1351 when commissioning a survey of Duchy property in "Cornwall and England".

TGG

STOP THE CORNISH GENOCIDE!- The existence of divergent views occur because the lies and deception have a more profoundly negative, and contrived, consequence for the Cornish people than for anyone else within the UK.
Top  Profile send PM Homepage
 
CJenkin Posted: 09.05.2007, 16:32



registered: Jan. 2005
Posts: 709

Status: online
Perhaps subjugation is a better phrase but conquest suggests a bit more political control. English historians argue that Egbert 'conquered' Cornwall - patently untrue - but it could be argued that he temporarily subjugated Cornwall.

My view is it is still questionable what if any control was exercised over Cornwall by Athelstan or the later English monarchs. Cornwall was clearly still very distinctive between 930 and 1066. Things certainly change by 1066 and William can dispose of the Earldom as he wishes and he is able to do that through force of arms, in the English context it is referred to as a Conquest and that seems to be appropriate for the Cornish context. Its important to recognise that it is the Duke of Normandy conquering Cornwall (so it becomes a royal possession) not the King of England (otherwise it would be integrated into the Kingdom of England). Something that has always been kept seperate.
Top  Profile send PM Homepage
 
TGG Posted: 09.05.2007, 18:14

TGG

registered: Aug. 2005
Posts: 1103

Status: offline
last visit: 03.10.08
CJenkin
...Its important to recognise that it is the Duke of Normandy conquering Cornwall (so it becomes a royal possession) not the King of England (otherwise it would be integrated into the Kingdom of England). Something that has always been kept seperate.

Not wishing to prolong this 'off-thread' digression but thanks for flagging that up as it seems fundamental to the debate. What we do not know, however, is the events/timing which led to Cadoc being displaced or, in fact, what happened to Cadoc. Was it by attrition (by an enemy) or mutual agreement (between friends)? Possibly, because of subsequent treatment and distinction, the latter seems entirely feasible?

TGG

STOP THE CORNISH GENOCIDE!- The existence of divergent views occur because the lies and deception have a more profoundly negative, and contrived, consequence for the Cornish people than for anyone else within the UK.
Top  Profile send PM Homepage
 
CJenkin Posted: 09.05.2007, 22:58



registered: Jan. 2005
Posts: 709

Status: online
I don't really understand the dynamics of what was going on at the time (perhaps we never will) but the first earl after the conquest was Brian a count of Brittany from Penthievre and interestingly called Botterell. The family were closely linked to the Breton royal family and may have had a dynastic claim on Cornwall and it's sovereignty. For some reason, possibly the death or revolt of Brian the Earldom was transferred to Robert Count of Mortain in William's family circle by 1086. Interestingly the Boterell's are established in North Cornwall by 1100 establishing Boscastle and another family member I think is briefly earl.
Top  Profile send PM Homepage
 
Goto page : Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 Next Page


Users online:
fancyabrew - goky - kenwyn - CJenkin - Allister - TeamKernow - marhak - Coady - Cawsando - srule - IrishJack - ThingsThatGoFlirInTheShla - PenwithAl

This list bases on the users active in the last 60 minutes
Cornwall24 2006 (c) web design & web hosting by a-connect
Sponsors: Cornwall hotels, Cornwall self-catering, Cornwall restaurant guide,Devon
Cornwall 24 news feed
Cornwall 24 News and Views