V Tree
A large V shaped pine tree on the Antony estate near Torpoint...
Seaton Beach
Located at the bottom of the Seaton River valley this sand and shingle beach is popular with families. At low tide it joins up with Downderry around the headland...
Seaton River
The Seaton River as it flows out of the valley and through the village of the same name...
Portwrinkle
Looking down over the one time fishing village of Portwrinkle. In the background is the start of Whitsand Bay as it stretches 4 miles down the Rame Peninsula...
Is it, as one looks at a map, being born on the left hand side of the river Tamar?
Is is accident of geographic location of where you were whelped?
I ask this as a resident of Cornwall, who has lived here a 'bleedy' long time, who 'has' actually worked as a teenager in the now 'extinct' Cornwall mining industry (Mount Wellington Mine), who used to work in the Cornish Agricultural industry (and I don't speak any Eastern European Language) on a farm as a herdsman. I ask as someone who has previously run my own businesses in Cornwall employing & training local people in attaining nationally
recognised qualifications. But I'm not Cornish born
Is Cornish genetically proveable by DNA as a seperate race?
In which case... DNA wise is it not possible there are a damn site more people living in some old former mining towns in America & Australia who might have claim to be 'Cornish' through strength of genetic composition more so than 2nd, 3rd or fourth generation accident of birth Cornish here?
I ask because I often find I am more knowledgeable of certain aspects of Cornwall & Cornish history, even Celtic culture, than the average Cornishperson.
When I have asked "What 'exactly' a person is 'proud' o
in being Cornish for", I have been met with blank expressions.
Is it a state of mind?
"All for one"...and yet I find an incredibly high levels of racist, biogoted, zenphoibic attitudes, often from people who have never even had a conversation with an Indian, Pakistani, Pole or a Latvian.
Of ALL the 20 or so people who originally made up the support team for a homeless Cornish born teenager, only ONE was Cornish born(and his parents were not Cornish)...the rest were concerned incomers.
What about those 'dipped with the tar brush' of more Spainish
origin in certain parts of Cornwall (or is this an old wives tail?)
I love this county/country/peninzula..'out crop', for its rugged beauty, I sometimes despair & despise it for its mean spirited, inward looking isolationist dogma, often rooted in past achievement of over two centuries ago.
I'm sure its been asked before, but what is the quintessential 'thing' that makes 'being Cornish'?
I'm gonna get some flack now, but...
What qualifies as being 'Cornish'? [/quote
Firstly this forum is crap for replying on, there is somethig definatley wrong on how it the forum is set up,,,,,,Pages off the screen to the right, when you quote something your message starts in the middle of the post your quoting, very very fraustrating, wish someone would sort the bloody thing out....
Any way what makes you Cornish,,,,, well not just living here, being born here, and being of Cornish Blood parentage does....
And I do wish People would get our Motto Correct,,, I heard this from a ;local bloke on the radio the other night aswell,,,this guy rang in about how the Cornwall County Council are about to spend (waste) Ł50,000 by going branded, and changing the Cornish Logo/crest....The bloke who phoned in was from Rock,, and he said our motto is "All for One" I notice that Pink has put it in his post above aswell,,,,well it aint All for One!!!! its "One and All"
All for One is part of the motto for the 3 Musketeers....All for one and one for all,,,,Nothing to do with Cornwall,,, so any one wanting to be Cornish or claim to be Cornish (a wannabe) best get that right from the start!!
Assumption, is the Mother of all Cockups!
Better to have it and not need it, than to need it, and not have it!
Kernow Bys Vyken
HeamoorMan, the problem with your 'quote' is that you have lost the closing square bracket of the closing 'quote' statement. Usually done if typed in manually and forgotten to type it, or more, probably, if you have highlighted and deleted adjacent text without checking the extent of the highlighting. If you edit to complete the closing 'quote' statement, it should preview/show proper.
TGG
The existence of divergent views occur because the lies and deception have a more profoundly negative, and contrived, consequence for the Cornish people than for anyone else within this island.
TGG, No mate it aint that, as i'm typing now this box has another (same box) behind it, on the right hand side there is a columb of adverts and such like which my text goes behind and I cant see what I'm typing until it drops down to the next line, and so on, everthing is out of sinc with it, I use many forums and this forum is the only one I have this problem with, so I reckon its got to be something to do with how the forum is set up,,, I even use a forum which has the same set up and layout as this one, but I dont get the problem there,,so I am pretty sure its not my PC,,,And therefore has to be the way the forum is set up...as I said, bloody fraustrating!!!
Assumption, is the Mother of all Cockups!
Better to have it and not need it, than to need it, and not have it!
Kernow Bys Vyken
PP, I am not aware of what identity you align yourself with or to, or how you would quantify it, but true identity derives from historical association to, and continuity with, territory and history, which you clearly discount in an unqualified manner.
To be Cornish means only to be 'of Cornwall' whether by descent or adoption and everyone will have their own valid interpretation of what this is for them. Such a question is invariably a 'put-down' and the tone of your opening, and most recent, post suggests that this is your agenda. The total absence of any positives in your postings instantly point to bias - I will not put it any stronger than that.
You are clearly aware of the issues that exist within our Cornish Duchy and that there is an externally driven force that, whether you accept it or not, has been contrived to destroy us - hence the perpetual focus on the 'here and now' - as the processes of psychological genocide take root. The net result is that most of Cornwall currently dwells in the "Santa Zone of Belief" between self-alignment to TEAM-EIS State de fact Propaganda or True Knowledge de jure.
The ambiguity and subjective nature of identity is but one of the tools being deployed. Everyone has a right to their own interpretation of their identity, without it being subjected to clinical observation. It should be good enough for someone to simply say that they are 'Cornish' meaning 'of Cornwall'!
The existence of divergent views occur because the lies and deception have a more profoundly negative, and contrived, consequence for the Cornish people than for anyone else within this island.
HeamoorMan, Why not send a PM to admin about it. I only noted the missing bracket and haven't a clue how the system works apart from user-access bits
TGG
The existence of divergent views occur because the lies and deception have a more profoundly negative, and contrived, consequence for the Cornish people than for anyone else within this island.
I personally have no wish to be considered Cornish, nor have I ever claimed to be, nor would I qualify (if thats the right terminology) according to some isolationists to the terms laid out here by some, but I do like your 'of Cornwall'
I am 'of Cornwall' by heart and have been here a very long time, the majority of partners with whom I have shared my life have been indigious native born in the county, but sometimes not always of Cornish parents.
Despite self identifying as being gay, I do have a child, (now an adult) born in Cornwall and therfore presumably Cornish and of on one genetic side of a very long Cornish bloodline.
I do believe that Cornwall has had a raw deal from various central government political parties over the years on many issues, but often practically of its own making... by apathy.
An old Cornishman I worked on a farm with said the "Cornish with the get up and go...had got up and gone"...to an extent this remains a problem with the brightest, the cream and often best educated & most capable young minds leaving...often not to return.
I also wonder if all those who are not 'native' born of Cornwall had to move out and all those of third or fourth generation original descent of Cornwall in America & Australia, etc. were to return, whether Cornwall would in fact be faced with a greater housing crisis than that already. I know from my own family line that there are more than 10X as many members of my family in America as a result of just one great uncle emigrant in the early 20th century than there are in the whole of the UK. I would speculate given the number of 'Cousin Jack's', that if the descendents of Cornwall were to return there would be a far bigger housing problem than currently faced.
But this is the here and now, and your possibly right TGG after so many decades living here my encapsulated perspective on what constitutes as being 'Cornish' is not entirely a positive one...by experience. So I was looking, seeking for a more positive perspective...from the self-identifying 'Cornish' themselves...
Which is 'WHY' I asked the original question to try to see what positive atributes and constructive perspectives those who were self identifying as 'Cornish' percieved of themselves...to which the majority of responce was almost 'get orf my land' or 'not you'!
Not the more positive perspective I was hoping for, but practically in line with expectation.
Over 250,000 people have now viewed Pink Pasty YOUTUBE videos on Homophobic Cornwall! Gay Cornwall lgbt News:- http://www.pinkpasty.blogspot.com
PP, many thanks for the response. My point here was only be able to point out that however & wherever you choose to identify, or live, you will be able to match all the negatives and positives you can imagine. This holds true for whatever identity you care to choose. Cornish, on this occasion, is being singled out for microscopic inspection. Forgive me for repeating but you seem only to be picking up on the negatives and implying no experience of positives. That to me is unreal.
Being ‘of Cornwall’, with the responsibility that that imposes, is for me all that matters, because over time your descendants will form an integral part of an ‘of Cornwall’ future
Bloodline is very important to some but identity does not rest with that alone and, given the history of people, it has more to do with cultural attachment and political affiliation to territory (and language) than blood or DNA.
The TGG site reveals my thinking on that subject. Apathy yes, but why is there apathy?
That is undoubtedly true since the mid-20th century, but I would suggest – from a Cornish Identity point of view, given the TEAM-EIS educational bias - that the 19th century Diaspora was worse because it deprived us of the core of the culturally Cornish Community.
People of Cornish descent worldwide have been estimated at 6 million. We could also speculate that were their ancestors able to stay in the Duchy because there had been no Diaspora, does not mean that the population might be as high, but it would have meant that there was a stronger consolidation of the Cornish identity to withstand, even prevent, some of the trauma imposed throughout the 20th century. I would like to think that much of the TEAM-EIS lies and deception would have been challenged more vigorously.
Are you letting your “experience” paint a negative picture of ‘being Cornish’ as just an unfortunate, seemingly prejudiced, substitute for people in general? As I suggested above, you could write your own list of attributes of self-identification (positives and negatives) about people and apply that list to just about any people-group throughout the world. If you only see the negatives, what is that saying? Are you are also making a mistake of presuming that C24 is necessarily representative of the self-identifying Cornish population? Have you ever communicated with English exiles that have ‘opened up’ about their ‘negative’ reasons for moving to Cornwall?
Sometimes the question is posed that subliminally elicits the expected reply. My reason, in fact, for responding in the manner that I did.
The existence of divergent views occur because the lies and deception have a more profoundly negative, and contrived, consequence for the Cornish people than for anyone else within this island.
And so the trap closes! PP you set up a question and anticipated the response in what turns out as simply an anti-Cornish put down.
You must be quite an angry person but can I suggest you deal with you anger in a more constructive manner rather than letting it turn to prejudice against a minority group like the Cornish, you of all people should know better.
I suppose being a sexual minority doesn't prevent you from being predjudiced.
This is a pretty emotive subject at best because of the passion that people feel for our little celtic nation. This is what drives someone who moves here to live to become so activley involved in political issues and the general running of the place. I read recently in the west briton about Mawnan Smiths new parish councilor a retiree from bucks...now i expect in about five years time he will start classing himself as Cornish!. Cornishness i feel is a state of mind alot of the time...i make no suggestion that i necassarily agree with that sentiment...but i do understand it. The world is becoming a very small place and cultures are mixing via multiculturalism what i do object to is the use of the Cornish identity like a "brand" or logo. I am Cornish through birth , my mothers Cornish , my fathers Cornish, as were my grandparents via an Irish Grandmother. So ergo i am Cornish. I also want recognition for my people and culture so i get labeled a nationalist as well
but i am not closed minded enough to beleive that it should only be we Cornish who should live here.
But i do believe we should come first in our land but that can only happen if the Cornish get of our asses and start taking a more active interest in whats going on around us...like ensuring that this 60.70.000 unafordable hovels DONT get built here...like opposing SWARDA and all there nefarious works. But sadly enough most Cornish dont give a stuff thats why a guy from Bucks has to join Parish councils and therefore ultimately make decisions on our behalf. Maybe the question should actually be who DESERVES to be called Cornish.....
You really should not be voting for UKIP, Ilovehelston! I can think of nothing more inward-looking and isolationist than this fascist organisation that you seem to support on other threads. It is difficult to see how you can make this remark about people who are looking forwards and outwards to the wider Europe. However, I concede that the ambiguity of your posting could lead one to conclude that you are referring to more blinkered individuals on this forum such as Cornish Miner.
Lovely. Feels like I've never been away. I came back today after months away, because I read about some proposed electoral reform that might be good news for Cornwall and wondering what was being said here about it... nothing of course, but the same old arguments are here....
PP, I don't think you ask anything unreasonable, and I don't think reacting to the idiotic responses means you set a trap. I've been there myself, and overreacted far more seriously than you, and had a similar diatribe from FLB.
My experience is that many of the regulars here, even those who are clearly smart and make vaguely inclusive noises, really struggle with any ambiguity when it comes to national identity. You are either Cornish as they define it, or you aren't. Sadly, most people need more than one word to sum up their identity.
I am truly Cornish, and I also feel an English identity (I have a little English blood, I don't harbour any prejuduice towards the English, and I recognise that Cornish and English culture have been cross-polinating for ever). I don't think I'm a rare breed, but because I didn't fit neatly and quietly into a box, I was told in no uncertain terms that my 'Cornish' identity was invalid - I was a second class Cornishman, while they were the carriers of the pure flame. I wasn't sure it was my English great-grandfather or my open mind that bothered people most. I felt patronised and insulted, and climbed the highest horse I could find and started ranting (something you avoided, admirably).
While your question is good, there is no answer. No-one can control what Cornish means, or how the term is used. The Cornish nation is caught between two extremes - those who use the term too loosely and are diluting it's meaning, and those who try to guard it so jealously it becomes exclusive and eventually anachronistic.
Sorry, reading again made me think harder - to refine the point:
Defining "Cornishness":
Some try to play a rather tatty 'race' card, but that has little credibility. Even if you accept the idea of a celtic race in the first place (not universally recognised as a truth), millenia of invasions, migrations, etc have rendered this largely irrelevant.
History, in terms of longstanding family connections/residency, is different to 'race/blood' (though the two are often confused). This is commonly used as a yardstick, but it's only one factor.
Feeling is much harder to quantify or evaluate, but is the key factor. A love and affinity for Cornwall and it's people is obviously vital to a Cornish identity. But - while it would be absurd to define Cornishness in only terms of race/history (and there aren't that many people so absurd left), considering anything as wooly as self-definition opens up two problems, both very clearly shown by the postings above.
- First, invasionists claim Cornishness as soon as moving in, often for their own ends. That's disrespectful and divisive.
- Second, protectionists start to define Cornishness in terms of commitment to their own political ideas, like nationalism, seperatism, or whatever. That's ignorant and divisive.
- Meanwhile, the great majority who can cope with a little ambiguity, watch on a little bemused.
That's why there's no answer to your question. That's why you've met with defensiveness. That's why a positive Cornish identity, which is crucial for our future, is so elusive.
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Gangmaster hits back after losing licence
A gangmaster has spoken out after having his licence revoked amid claims of forced labour.
Pupil's punishment 'not enough'
A mother criticises a one-day suspension for a pupil who attacked her daughter at a Cornish school.
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A Nimrod plane in which 14 servicemen including a Cornishman died had a fuel problem, an inquest hears.
ShelterBox team arrives in Burma
A team from the Cornish charity ShelterBox has arrived in Burma to help with the cyclone relief effort.
Rail staff to strike over pay row
Rail maintenance workers and cleaners will stage a one-day strike in a row over hours and overtime.
Pair shell-shocked at massive egg
A Cornish chicken leaves a big surprise for its owners by laying an egg the size of a tennis ball.
Parents in skin cancer DVD launch
A couple from Cornwall whose daughter died from skin cancer hope a DVD they are launching will save lives.
