V Tree
A large V shaped pine tree on the Antony estate near Torpoint...
Seaton Beach
Located at the bottom of the Seaton River valley this sand and shingle beach is popular with families. At low tide it joins up with Downderry around the headland...
Seaton River
The Seaton River as it flows out of the valley and through the village of the same name...
Portwrinkle
Looking down over the one time fishing village of Portwrinkle. In the background is the start of Whitsand Bay as it stretches 4 miles down the Rame Peninsula...
'a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.'http://dictiona...owse/fascism
Given ukip's complete unwillingness to listen to any other perspective other than thier own, combined with thier aggressive methods of putting this point of view across, I'm very doubtful that they have any real respect for the democratic process, which could be defined as listening and engaging with all opinions so as to better represent the electorate.
And their supreme confidence that the British way is best and anything that comes from another country (or bunch of countries - ie, the EU) must be wrong, or daft at best, I'd say that their is a very fierce element of nationalistic supremacy. Moreover, as I think we all know, this nationalism does not recognise Cornish nationalism (which I dont think contains any of that racial supremacy s***t).
But, as this thread is about definitions of Cornishness, maybe stuff about ukip would be better on the other thread?
I am getting a tad fed up with people asking for a definition of what constitutes a Cornishman, or what is Cornishness etc. Why do they ask it of the Cornish, and not of others?
Can Anyone define an Englishman?
A Frenchman?
A bit more difficult, a Briton?
Or a really tricky one a Tibetan?
You might think that these are easy, but you will find that in many cases, the "answer" depends on your political opinions, in some cases, the answer will depend on the political opinions of others. For example, a Tibetan, could be said to be someone born in Tibet, but the Chinese government will tell you that they're Chinese.
A Briton could be said to be someone born in Britain, but there are many Scots who would argue that they are not British, because, they claim, Scotland is not in Briton. Then you have many from people from various Commonwealth countries who have a legal right to be called British who have not only never been near Briton, but probably none of their ancestors have either.
It is my experience that most people who ask for a definition of Cornishness, or a Cornishman, only do so to find fault, whatever definition is provided them, and it is for that reason, that many "Cornish" get a little tetchy in their replies.
Kernow Kensa!
Our day will come!
"Everyone has their own particular part to play. No part is too great or too small, no one is too old or too young to do something."
Quite right P_Trembath, a lot of waffly twaddle is written on this. People psychoanalysing themselves and others endlessly, stereotyping, you name it. If people don't know what they are, why should anybody take what they write or say seriously. The only dichotomy involved for a Cornishman or Cornishwoman should be the extent of Cornishness, that is 'very' or 'extremely'
Likewise, I am also fed up to the back teeth with requests to define 'Cornishness'. As others have asked, why is this question not posed to the English. What is Englishness??
I am also completely p****d off with the sanctimonious 'diatribes' of those who clearly can't tell the difference between S**t and chocolate. If they could, they wouldn't be making the absurd claims that to be Cornish means you are a racist.
May I suggest that those who are thus inclined refer to the Fraser judgement (1983) and the case of Manla v. Dowel Lee to acquaint themselves with a definition of ethnicity that includes inclusivity?
For those who are not aware, ethnicity is all about culture. It has nothing whatsoever to do with race, skin colour, physical appearance, place of birth or blood line. That there is a Cornish ethnicity is beyond doubt but, as yet, it is a case that has not been argued in court.
Clearly, a member of the English majority might argue in court for English ethnicity. However, to date, nobody has done this either.
Fatboychin also makes reference to English identity and national identity without adducing one definition for each of these concepts. It seems to me that this member is greatly confused between ethnicity (which, in the Conish case, using the definition set by Lord Fraser, is very well defined and it most certainly is inclusive providing certain rules are followed), 'National Identity (for which no legal definition exists and it remains meaningless and irrelevant to the Cornish because, once again, it is an Anglo-political concept designed to keep the Cornish and their culture hidden within the official 'English' category), National Origins, citizenship, and nationality.
Several posters, particularly those who are sympathetic to an English point of view, consistently fail to recognise, the Cornish problem as a classic majority - minority conflict.
In the case of Cornish children, for instance, they do not receive a satisfactory education into their minority Cornish history, background, culture etc etc. Instead, they are FORCED to swallow a sanitised Anglo-centric version of history and culture, and adopt a view that is reinforced and sustained by the c**p they receive in a compliant, unquestioningly royalist, Anglo-centric press. The end product of such forced assimilative educational processes works to the favour of the state, controlled by the majority, and is a product with a similarly Anglo-centric outlook.
It is beyond comprehension, therefore, that there are some people who, bearing in mind the impact of incessant assimilative procedures both on our childrn and our families, have the gaul to suggest that it is the Cornish who are racist! Although I do not condone racism or discriminatuion of any sort, I do understand, nonetheless, why some might express anti-English sentiment on account of the following factors:
1) the education system is, by the very nature of majority control, reflective of the history and culture of the majority. There is virtually NO real Cornish history and Cornish language in any Cornish schools. That which is present is limited, superficial and not available to ALL pupils.
2) the political system also is entirely Anglo-centric with English LibDems, Conservatives, and Labour holding the seats at Westminster. The system is so heavily loaded that minority parties, such as MK, do not get a chance at the ballot-box. Moreover, since MK is dependent upon the goodwill of a very small number of people and, with its funding base at such low levels, it is a credit to them that they do get some representation on local public authorities.
3) there has been a failure of the Anglo-centric government, in which the English are the majority, to include the Cornish within the terms of the Framework Convention for the Protection of Natiional Minorities. ALL other UK minorities, indigenous and otherwise, are included within the Convention. Many will be surprised to learn that even a group known as 'foreigners' is covered, following recent Race Relations Act judgements. Yet, a tiny indigenous minority, with a recognised, official language, that was here thousands of years before the English arrived on these shores, is being excluded by the English dominated government from the protection afforded by this important international convention.
4) the Cornish were recognised by the ONS for the 2001 Census. Ten years later, in the lead up to the 2011 Census, the English administrators of the census are doing all they can to remove official backing for the Cornish group, once again, rendering them statistically invisible at a stroke of a pen and, therefore, unable to access specific funds, to which analogous groups have unquestionable access. These funds would facilitate the survival of their threatened cultural objectives.
5) there is, as many here know full well, in Cornwall, a constitutional dilemma for the government. The English dominated government is legally bound to promote the financial interests of the Duke of Cornwall over and above all others. For evidentce of this unwholesome, discriminatory practice, please refer to Section 40, 2 (g) of the Crown Proceedings Act (1947) that gives the Duke of Cornwall 'the right to intervene or otherwise control proceedings that affect his property and profits'. Are the English majority in England, the Scottish minority in the UK, the Welsh minority in the UK or any other minority or majority, for that matter, subject to such feudal discrimination by an institution that belongs to the English majority?? Why is it that the development and well-being of Cornish minority culture comes second to the income and profit of a man who, according to the state is more interested in Transylvanian culture?
It is beyond credulity that, in a country that instructs its 'subjects' and tells the World about its democratic credentials there is one tiny indigenous minority culture that could be exterminated if something isn't done soon!
So, in closing this lengthy missive, I pose the questions:
Who are the racists?
Is it any wonder that the Cornish feel so disenfranchised by a system that persistently discriminates against them, a circumstance that is exploited often on this forum by numerous English nationalists and sympathisers peddling drivel and clap-trap ad nauseum?
Finally, the Cornish question is a cultural question with constitutional overtones. In cultural terms, it is not possible to mix two or more different cultures. So I appreciate that Fatboychin has a great problem with his cultural identity. At the end of the day, it is what is in his heart that counts. Is he prepared to sustain a great injustice to the Cornish people for fear of upsetting his affection for the culture of the English majority? Or is he confusing culture with nationality, national identity (what ever that is) or something else?
Love of the place, the people, the history, the uniqueness, the feeling of coming home after no matter how many years ?
Its too hard to put into words........
But for my 2p worth, I am Cornish to way back, my family name is mentioned as a proper Cornish name by A. L. Rowse in his books, and he did say that proper Cornish language derived surnames are not common.
I now believe the name is ancient, it features all through Cornish tin mining history. I was born over by Redruth, my dad to St. Erth. Not just tried to buy the identity like the English do.
It is interesting that, a few weeks back, on another Cornish forum, an African contributor styled himself as a “New Cornishman”. He did point out that genetic evidence reveals that all peoples in the world can trace their ultimate origins back to continuing waves of African emigrants starting about 65,000 years ago. Describing himself as a ‘New Cornishman’, he pointed out that he had just left Africa and come to Cornwall a little later than most of us.
What he says is true. Therefore, although some might like to claim old Cornish lineage, such a practice can rapidly become meaningless – the Celts were not the first inhabitants of this place. ‘A’ cannot claim to be more Cornish than ‘B’ because he has even more pre-Celtic genes in him than ‘B’.
Humans leave a mark on places, but so too, in some spiritual way, do places leave a mark on humans. For instance, if you were born and bred within sight of St Michaels Mount, then that view will always hold a special compelling magic for you, particularly when returning after a long period away.
So being Cornish does have something to do with the feeling of strong affinity with a place. I believe that such affinity can come from growing up in a place, but simply moving to it and loving what you find is also a source of such affinity.
Communities can share certain common views. Members of a particular ‘tribe’ can display shared attitudes, outlooks and views because of common heritage. Once on a course in Oxford, I met three fellow Cornishmen. We, and the other course participants, quickly recognised the shared traits in us Cornish - we became a group within a group. We recognised our Cornishness.
The word ‘tribe’ is not inappropriate in this context. Quite the opposite. Tribes have many distinguishing badges. One will always be shared experience of where you come from. Others may be dress or clothing, may be outlook on life, may be language.
To be a tribe, you must in ways be different from others – you must have tribal markings that set you apart. We Cornish do have such markings – in our love for our little land, in the way we look at the world, in some of our customs and, for some very few of us, in the use of a revived language. Anyone that takes on these tribal markings is one of us. Incidentally, you can just as well substitute the word ‘nation’ for ‘tribe’ in this context.
The worst form of national pride is that which seeks to raise itself up by putting others down, by saying in some form “we’re better than you”. Proper pride is merely to acknowledge the differences in one’s ‘tribe’ and to be content in them, as one would be content in a familiar comfy cardigan – and not to be deprecating of others.
I sense a Cornishness within me – particularly when I am among non-Cornish folk. Yes, I am, and feel, Cornish, but, in the same way, particularly on my travels, I feel British and European too.
Interesting post, Gwenver. Nothing in it with which I disagree. Your observations are entirely consistent with the 1983 Fraser judgement in which he set a definition for ethnicity. One addendum to your comments, however, in regard to those who wish to join a new 'tribe' or ethnic group, is that those new applicants should not only endorse and fully apply the codes and mores of the new group to which they would like to belong but they should also be accepted by the group's existing membership.
That is, I feel, a very important consideration.
On a more personal note, I define my identity as 'Cornish' and, although I used to, I no longer wish to associate myself with the nation that has done, and continues to do, so much to deny me my identity and re-write my history. On the other hand, I have no difficulty in being European.
I am sceptical of this claimed African origin for the human species, and genetics will, eventually, link every single person on the face of the planet.
At present, the oldest known human remains come from Olduvai Gorge, but is that the real story? There is so much of this planet that has not been similarly explored for human origins: Asia and particularly China is very much underexplored. How about Antarctica? At one time that frozen continent lay within tropical latitudes. What we know at this moment is all that we can surmise - but, for all we really know, another truth lies out there somewhere waiting to be discovered. African origin for the human species is a present day theory based upon the very tenuous evidence currently available, and nothing more.
my name is Alexandre and i´m new in that, i´m from Galicia, and i cant speak a lot of thing about the qualifies as being Cornish, but i dont believe in DNA diferences nor races.., i believe in a diferent history, a diferent culture, i think in Cornish as the celtic south corner of Britain, this is my image from here.
Well said, Alexandre and welcome to the C24 forum. Your English is far superior to that of some of the people who post here who claim English to be their mother tongue!
You have good English Alex, as Fulub said, there are people who claim English is their mother-tongue, but can't write in it.
In fact, there are "English" people living down the road, who cant speak a word of the Queens english.
It is great to have someone from Galicia,you are very welcome here.
Your English will improve the more you post here.
Why not create a topic about the state of Galicia and what it's like?
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