Thanks, you guys, for the vote of confidence in my Hengestesdun argument. I did expect a lot of opposition to it as the Hingston Down, Callington, assumption has been so firmly entrenched for so long.
Hey Marhak _ I independently to you also came up with exactly the same viewpoint that ?Hingston down was near moretonhampstead and mentioned it way back along on here. I hope you think that great minds think alike.
Some other evidence that would back up Moretonhampstead being the correct location. Its on the main road to Exeter and a great place for an ambush. In order to intercept a Cornish Danish invasion you would expect it to take place in English territory. At the time it was recorded in ASC it is unlikely that Hingston Down in Cornwall would have had an English name as it would have been ouside of the english sphere of influence. Whereas Hingston Down, Moreton hampstead would easily have been named in English especially as located on the down are some stones that would have been associated with Hengest as a mythical ancient god. The Earliest reference to Hingston Down in Cornwall doesn't occur until the Middle Ages Why? How did it get its name? Well there is a Hingston family well established early on in the South Hams - probably named after Moretonhampstead - no such family in Cornwall. So quite likely at a later date one of that family came into ownership of the land by the Tamar and called it in English Hingston Down. The Earliest reference to Cornish site being the battle site seems to be 16th century with nothing to back it up and WG Hoskins followed it and everybody has followed him since despite the fact that many of his battle site attributions are now widely contradicted.
Yo, Conan - I'd been working on where Hengestesdun could possibly have been for a while and put a write-up in Cornish World about 6 months ago. I even contacted OJP but he was dismissive (unfortunately, he belongs to the Todd - Hoskins - Ravenhill school who are adamant that Cornwall was conquered by Wessex and even make up "facts" to push their case).
Todd is a prime example of what I call Anglo-supremacist twistory. Take the battle of Gafalforda in 825, for instance. There's only one source for this: the Anglo-Saxon Chronicles which simply say: "The West Wealas and the men of Devon fought at Gafalforda (which may or may not have been Galford, near Lydford -we don't know for certain)". That's all it says. No mention of whether the two were on the same side or fighting each other. It doesn't say who won or who lost. It doesn't mention any individuals.
Now look at what Todd writes: "A rebellion by the Cornish failed when they were defeated by Ecgberht at Gafulford". Er, what 'rebellion' and how can an independent kingdom rebel against foreign aggression? What defeat? Oh, and now Ecgberht himself was there, was he?
This sort of garbage is what our kids are taught at school because, when Todd wrote that in 1987, he was Professor of Archaeology at the University of Exeter and, therefore, his word is sacrosanct.
Absolutely, it is a theory but I do have good arguments for it. Often, challenging old ideas and long-lived assumptions is not a popular move. It's like trying to persuade people that the myth of Phoenician traders coming to Cornwall is just that - a myth invented by an Elizabethan schoolmaster called John Twynne who thought it an attractive idea. So did others and it caught on. But there's absolutely no evidence for it. None at all. Nonetheless, it's hard to dissuade many people who were taught it at school and still hear it trotted out in books and on television.
I am not challenging your theory, Craig (unfortunately I have not seen your article so cannot comment on it) but there is a place name nearby which appears to support a Danish connection.
The Ordanance survey in their usual way record it as 'Danescombe' whereas any non-emmet from Calstock, Gunnislake, St Dominick, Bohetherick etc. will tell you that it is 'Danicombe' (spell it how you will, three syllables and the 'i' as in 'inn' tending to schwa).
Without researching the attested forms of this place name I would hazard Danek + Coombe/cwm/coom/komm etc. 'Danish Valley' (with archaic word order). However, you may have researched this one?
I was once told by one of the Flashmans that there are burial mounds at Sevenstones 'where the Cornish and Danish dead from the battle are buried'.
Again, fascinating though it is I have not researched it and it could well be all Flashman's own idea. Has it been dug? Any information on this?
The historical forms of the name bear out your condemnation of the Ordnance Survey (which has a lot to answer for in misrepresenting place names not only in Cornwall but Dartmoor as well - Eric Hemery spent years trying to persuade them that they had got many names wrong. I have a Dartmoor map with place names corrected by Hemery. Quite an eye opener).
Anyway, back to "Danescombe". This was Donecombe 1337, Dounecoumbe 1341, Dounecombe 1357, Downecombeshed 1461, Danycombe brygge 1473. The 1341,1357 and 1461 examples suggest that the first element is OE dun, "hill, down", so OE duna-cumb, "valley among downs/hills".
There has been some archaeological work on Kit Hill but not Hingston Down as far as I know. In the 9th century, flat cemeteries were the fashion, not mounds. I believe that there are Bronze Age barrows close by.
No, I don't, Gravy Dave. Herodotus writes of the "Cassiterides" but does identify them with anywhere other than the Atlantic coasts of Europe. By the time Carthage was up and running, the old Phoenicians had become Carthaginians and even then, we can't prove that any Punic ship ever went further north than Cadiz. The list of kings given in the article comes straight from Geoffrey of Monmouth and the firm assertion that Britsh tin was used to embellish the temple of Solomon is absurd - no one has ever found that temple, let alone known what was in it.
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