Beach Ices at Praa Sands
Ice meeting the sand at the base of the low cliff behind Praa Sands Beach, West Cornwall. 6th January 2009....
Icicles at Trewellard Bottoms
Water seeping through a wall is turned to icicles, ate Trewellard Bottoms, where Geevor Mine meets the sea....
Winter Sunset at Levant
A late afternoon scene, at Levant Mine, West Cornwall. 7th January 2009....
Winter at Levant
The old electricity generator building, at Levant Mine, West Cornwall, during the recent cold snap. 7th Jnauary 2009....
Correct me if I'm wrong. But wasn't St. Alban a British Celt? I seem to remember St Alban's martyrdom taking place during the persecution of Christians under Emperor Septimus Severus in 209. And aren't the Anglo-Saxons thought to have arrived in Britain in the 5th century?
The "English" people of today may in fact be largely descended from British Celts. But do you think, then, that it is justifiable to backdate English history to include everything that happened before the arrival of the Anglo-Saxons?
Rather depends on how you define "English". If you mean "the history of the English people of today" then yes, the Celtic and Romano-British periods are part of that history. But if you're using the term more restrictively, to mean the elements brought in by the Anglo-Saxons, then of course not. So for most purposes no, but it does mean that English people, as heirs of a culture which derives from the Romano-British culture of St Alban as well as the Anglo-Saxon culture of the invaders, can claim to have a stake, as it were, in St Alban.
Righty, well, ask Marhak, he knows history and stuff lol. And there must be some English people today who have celtic ancestry, (i do, just look at my name) and the English are not only Anglo-saxon Germans. We have French, Danish, Norwegian and maybe even Swedish and Finnish ancestry. And i imagine not all celts moved towards Ireland, Wales, Scotland etc some must of stayed and integrated then ''mated'' with the newcomers.(English)
I think there might have been an Anglo-Saxon presence (but not determined settlement) a bit earlier than the 420-450 AD main movement from Germany/Low Countries/Scandinavia. The Roman built "Saxon Shore" forts are about a century earlier and seem to have been trading posts for maritime trade across the North Sea, possibly run by AS entrepreneurs. Hard to prove that, though, but it seems feasible.
I have another theory (again unproven, so I merely offer it up)about the so far unanswered question of why south-western (Dumnonian) Britons colonised both Brittany and Galicia in the mid 5th century. There seems to have ben no real internal pressure that would force our people to move. Anglo-Saxon immigration had only just begun and that was 300 miles away, so wouldn't have affected Dumnonia in the slightest.
For this theory we go back to pre-Roman prehstory when we were an integral part of the Atlantic sea trading that had been operative since at least the early Neolithic (roughly when Celtic languages developed from Indo-European in those same areas, from Spain to Scotland, as a lingua franca of the trading nations, according to Cunliffe, Renfrew and others). It continued uninterrupted for 4500 years, until ended by one Gaius Julius Caesar in 56 BC. From then on, it was the Roman Empire that ran all import/export trade to and from Britain even before the Claudian invasion of 43 AD. That came to a close after the Roman withdrawal in 410 AD.
My theory is that Dumnonian entrepreneurs deliberately set up colonies in Galicia and Brittany as the two most strategic points on that old sea trading route, in order to restart and run it. We know from finds at Tintagel and other places that the old trading sea lanes were back in full swing by 450-500 AD and, if my theory is right, WE were in charge of them.
Marhak - when you say "roughly when Celtic languages developed from Indo-European in those same areas" are you suggesting that the Celtic languages originated there, rather than further east around the Danube and then spreading West? I can see the idea of proto-Celtic as a Lingua franca for those areas, but I would see it as coming via migrations from the IE homeland somewhere between Eastern Europe and the Caspian; the people themselves would originally have spoken a non-Indo European Neolithic language, perhaps akin to Basque and/or Pictish*, and switched to Celtic as it increased in economic importance.
Perhaps it's a matter of definition. A dialect of Indo-European was introduced to the Atlantic coasts; at what point we call it "Celtic" is arbitrary. Most linguists, though, as I understand it, call it at least Proto-Celtic from an earlier stage when it first differentiated from proto Indo-European, probably in Eastern Europe.
I think the biggest problem I have with your Dumnonian entrepreneur theory is that I'm not sure that there was a strong enough communication, generation on generation, of history through the Roman period for the Dumnonians of the fifth century to actually know about the sea trading practices of half a millenium earlier. It's not exactly "Hey, cool, the Romans are gone, we can pick up where we left off", is it? That the post-Roman trading routes were the same might mean no more than that they were natural routes to use.
*There were apparently two Pictish languages - a Celtic one and a non Indo-European one. I'm talking about the latter.
Karl, that's the old idea which has now been kicked well into touch. There is no mention of Danube area Celts until around 600 BC - which is pretty darn late. Apparently the Atlantic Celts have no genetic link with the later central European ones, who merely spoke a Celtic language. We imported their art and technology, and that's all. The general consensus now is that Celtic languages developed on the Atlantic coasts of Europe and Britain between 5000 and 4000 BC, and that there were no major movements of people in or out of Britain until the Claudian invasion gave the native Britons, with all those millenia of unbroken continuity, a hell of a shock.
The Romans were our first illegal immigrants, followed by the English, then the Danes, then the Normans.
Can you point to where I might find more on this "general consensus"? Under this new consensus, how did Indo-European get from its place of origin to the Atlantic coasts, there to develop into Celtic?
I wouldn't expect the Atlantic Celts to have a genetic link to the Continental ones under the old model; I would expect languages to move more than people, as different circumstances create different prestige languages.
Rise in county's road death toll
The number of people who have died on Cornwall's roads rises in the last year to 35, police say.
Film con man ordered to pay £100K
The man who swindled almost £2m in a film studio scam is ordered to forfeit £100,000 by a judge.
Triplets survive against the odds
A woman from Cornwall who gave birth to triplets 14 weeks early describes their survival as a "miracle".
Call for inquiry into fire centre
Fire chiefs demand a public inquiry into the delayed opening of the regional fire control centre.
Prison sentence for benefit cheat
A man who admitted swindling more than £51,000 in benefits over a six-year period is jailed for 18 months.
Divers face trial over shipwreck
Three Cornish divers accused of plundering a shipwreck off the coast of Spain are to be tried in a Spanish court.
‘NO’ TO NUCLEAR WASTE IN CORNWALL - MPs
Proposals to bring nuclear waste to Cornwall have been described as ‘absurd and irresponsible’ by Cornish MPs.
Route Partnership Plan for Penzance unnecessary
Their plan having been rejected by the public in the final exhibition in Septmber with 90% against the Route Partnership have decided to try again in mid January after a mailout and poster campaign.The Chamber of Commerce has been at the forefront of this campaign.
