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What do the Cornish Gorseth ACTUALLY do?

Bardh Posted: 28.04.2008, 23:14

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The designation of 'language bard', as Craig knows perfectly well, goes back to the very beginnings of the Gorseth,
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TheArchDruid Posted: 28.04.2008, 23:17



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marhak, you being "sure" does not make it fact, and it is not fact. Do these "language bards" sit apart in the circle? Do they have different robes? Different words in the ceremony? Do they, in fact, play any different role in the Gorsedd to any other bard? No, they don't. If some of them do call themselves "language bards" in order to be divisive that is nothing to do with the Gorsedd.
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pietercharles Posted: 28.04.2008, 23:17



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VeritySo, tell me, what IS the Gorsedd for other than for making a spectacle of itself and people feel better about themselves?


It's for demonstrating that we're different.

On the other side of the river they have Morris Dancers and Beefeaters and the Dunmow Fitch. On this side we have the Gorsedh and Furry Dance and Obby Oss. All part of the rich tapestry that sets us apart, and every stitch in that tapestry is valuable.

And it's for demonstrating that we have something in common with Wales and Britanny, where they also 'make a spectacle' of themselves in exactly the same way.

Of course the Gorsedh is not above criticism, and I wasn't suggesting it was. But don't hold it up to public ridicule - that doesn't help the cause one bit.

I imagine in years gone by our national affliction had everyone walking round saying 'So, tell me, what IS the Cornish language for, other than for making a spectacle of the people that use it?'.

And the rest is history.
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Egloshal Posted: 28.04.2008, 23:25

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That's valid Pietercharles - good answer. But do you believe that is how most of Cornwall views it? Is there anyway of make the rest of Cornwall share your viewpoint?

Radyo an Gernewegva
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morvran Posted: 28.04.2008, 23:34

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I would favour a clear distinction between language bards and honourary bards (with some way of allowing those doubly qualified to be both). The reason is because their achievements are quite different (although both valuable). One is an houour awarded on rather vague critieria, and probably depends on which circles you move in, the other is open to anyone prepared to take a series of reasonably fair exams. Lumping them together is just confusing to outsiders. One is a sort of academic qualification, the other an 'houour'.

The Welsh and Bretons (and English!) also 'make a spectacle of themselves', but the Welsh at least make a fine spectacle, our gorsedh is, well, just a spectacle these days.


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Egloshal Posted: 28.04.2008, 23:37

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What would you do to improve the actual Gorseth ceremony?

Radyo an Gernewegva
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Verity Posted: 28.04.2008, 23:39

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I don't think the Gorsedd is a matter of ridicule, just of curiosity. People don't get too upset about the royal family, but you wouldn't invent it if it didn't exist. Same goes for Freemasons and the House of (hereditary) Lords.

Would we need to re-invent the Cornish Gorsedd today if it didn't exist just because Wales and Brittany have them (like we have pasties and they don't...)? Is its (sole remaining?)ceremonial function really worth all the effort? In the 20th Century, is it creating a sense of differentness or of the absurd?

I've never been to a Gorsedd gathering so don't know.
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Verity Posted: 28.04.2008, 23:41

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Sorry, we are in the 21st century now!
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Mike Posted: 28.04.2008, 23:44

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QuoteOn the other side of the river they have Morris Dancers and Beefeaters and the Dunmow Fitch.


Perhaps Cornwall's language fraternity should run the equivalent of the Great Dunmow Fitch icon_wink
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Egloshal Posted: 28.04.2008, 23:47

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If I wanted to enthuse someone on the outside of the Cornish cultural movement about the Cornish culture, I would probably take them to an event like Lowender Peran, Aberfest, Obby Oss, the Cornish Language Weekend. I would only take someone to the Gorseth If I knew they had made it through the other events without running off.

The actual declaration and the bardic circle, the awarding of prizes is actually quite acceptable. The things which are harder to 'sell' to the greater Cornwall are things like the 'flower dance' and I have to save the singing is fairly dreary. The harp playing is nice... and it is great to hear Merv and his pipes. Pol is great at his declaration. But then again I am biased in that heart of hearts I do like alot of it.

However, I reckon I am connected to reality enough to see that few would share my view. Most look on the Gorseth as irrelevant.

The point of this here is to be helpful in trying to suggest ways of making the Gorseth more relevant.

Radyo an Gernewegva
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Bardh Posted: 28.04.2008, 23:59

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VeritySorry, we are in the 21st century now!


When did you first begin to notice this? Tell us more: we're very curious.
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morvran Posted: 29.04.2008, 00:05

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Go to one Verity, it is as they say, different icon_wink

The Gorsedh is there, it exists so we don't have to invent it. That said reinventing may be harder. Since it exists how can we best use it? Like I said earlier, and others too, it should move towards something a little more like the Welsh Eisteddfod. They hire a field for a day (why not the whole w/e?) so it ought to be filled with every sort of event and demonstration. The ceremonies should be broken up, opening, awards, closing, whatever. Having the whole of Cornish bard-dom enrobed and encircled throughout (and then spirited away to a secret location for exclusive tea and buns) means that most of the language activists are tied up the whole time. Use the cermonials to establish an atmosphere of 'differentness', but within that cultural 'bubble' there should be lots of other activities, especailly anything and everything to do with the language. I just don't believe that there's no-one in Cornwall who knows how to run an event in a field. The idea would be to make it *the* one event that *everyone* who has anything to do with Cornishness (the word 'culture' hasn't quite the right overtones) goes to. And once that idea is established everyone will go, because, well, you know everyone will be there - nothing suceeds like sucess.
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Mike Posted: 29.04.2008, 00:17

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That sounds like a good model to build on, Morvran icon_smile
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morvran Posted: 29.04.2008, 00:21

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Is everyone put in their 2p's worth of ideas and inspiration, and there was a small team who know how to hold it all together ...

But would the Gorsedh gerontocracy buy it??

Ottena an govynn icon_confused




edited by: morvran, Apr 29, 2008 - 01:05 PM

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Nosdan Posted: 29.04.2008, 08:39

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Quote(and then spirited away to a secret location for exclusive tea and buns)


You have a point here, last time they were in Truro, I remember, at least 50 people, that were just passing stoping and listening for a few minutes... Other than complete puzzlement I think some were truely interested...

It could have been well worthwile that several of the fitter, younger bards, went and spoke to the crowd, perhaps strolled around town... dare i say it hand out a few leaflets about were to learn various aspects of Cornish Culture? They could even have held a drop in street clinic for the language???

Mar vedhow avel gelvinek
(as maazed as a curlew)
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