Don't assume that peoiple who out think and out smile you are on drugs
Life is very short, I suggest you relax a bit Hunlef. This is a forum for debate not petty little insults and schoolyard jibes.
I have had many heated debates with people on here and many protreacted disagreemenst but you are the only one in over a year who really has nothing to say but kindergarden nastyness and lacking any attept at discussion.
Who will you vote for?
Freako Mbiko
Please Visit the Wonderful Continent of Kernow and, after that, check out my blogs:
The opinions being aired are interesting, (but it all seems a bit obscure!)
I personally feel that more damage is done to Cornish Identity by Sky TV (etc.)and the stuff our young people watch (and the 'kultur' they absorb) than anything the Government or the Duchy do.
...I cant remember hearing a Cornish accent from any youngsters recently.... it sounds more like "English City Ignorant"
I suspect that while all us old gits argue the toss, the whole of Cornwall under 30 have 'jumped ship' and willingly embraced Anglo American values and culture.
I cant seem to get any young people interested in last month, let alone the 15th century.
I embrace "Anglo" American culture, I am under 30, yet I am engaged with Cornish politics. However I, like many of my generation, and the generation emerging behind me, have generally lost faith in the politics of the UK and the main parties. I think history has taught us that no matter who we vote for nothing changes, or in fact gets worse.
The trick is to re-engage the young people of Cornwall.
I would ask you not to assume though that all young people have absorbed this "kultur" you mention. There are many groups and sub-cultures, please don't tar them with the same "hip-hop/townie" brush.
I am awake at 4am to the terrifying undeniable truth that there is nothing I can do to stop the monster
And it seems you have forgotten the Church, who have a bigger hand in this it seems than I would have thought a week ago.
I haven't seen any evidence of anyone lying recently, however.
Again, this is all agreed. Mind you, It should be clear that the seed for any of my knowledge about this is your Knowledge
Also again, none of this seems to pertain to the establishments accused machinations sicne the 20th C.
[quote=TGG]The mid-16th century is clearly the start of a process of genocide of the Cornish:
I dont see this as a "genocide". That's a very emotive term and, apart from the Prayerbook rebellion and the rebellion a few decades before that, there doesnt seem to me evidence of a systematic Genocide.
I think a better term would be anglification or something like that.
I agree the Cornish Identity is being erroded and has been. This is distinct from genocide, its more to do with cultural subsuming.
If you call this prolonged sequence "Genocide" I believe you damage the Cornish causes significantly.
Erroneous yes, "evil", again, you do your cause no favors. If you wnat to alienate the Cornish further, I think these terms help.
Remember, I agree with you on this history. We just disagree about history's relation to the political future of Cornwall.
I agree. But we can do that as thugs or diplomats
I agree. But again, I ask, when this is going on, what happens to the politics of the region, because t strikes me that while the historical nationalists are trying to get resolution and justice, none of you seem to have any political aims for the future.
Who will the Cornish people with these legitimate claims and issues vote for?
[quote=TGG]I see it as genocide, which is ‘evil’ as is also a failure to be interested. Let the ‘untouchables’ tell us that Cornish genocide is of no interest to them! Our elected representatives have clearly shown this!
As above. That term damages. You might as well call Prince Charles Hitler.
People in England, and in Cornwall, are much more disinterested than you. You need people on your side, English people who can say "Wow this did happen, this is unfair, I support you".
But that wont happen with the current attitude from the "Historical Nationalist".
If there is a hidden conspiracy by the English establishment I think those involved can check out C24 and relax, as we do them a good service with our lack of unified political direction.
Mat
Freako Mbiko
Please Visit the Wonderful Continent of Kernow and, after that, check out my blogs:
Yes I think your right, especially on the Amercicanisation.
Like it or hate it, the global culture, is becoming more and more homogenised. There is not much we can do about that tide, whether or Fiji....
LOL. Point taken
Probably not too much! But that youf who are so disinteredted will vote, and thats the only point we can be said to have their attention in any signifigant sense.
A disinteredted youth is unavoidable. An influx of people from all over is unavoidable. People not knopwing about the "true history" is navoidavle.
Which is why the only time we can really make a REAL difference is in the voting booth.
If the historical nationalists get EVERYTHING they want, think for a moment about what the real change for Cornwall's Future that that would entail. A mention in some document that says "Different race" etc etc etc... but for the people alive now and in the future, the real change to their lives, I think, would be nothing other than "feel good".
Its going to be a lot easier to get the cornish youth interested in active Cornish politics than Cornish history.
best wishes
Mat
Freako Mbiko
Please Visit the Wonderful Continent of Kernow and, after that, check out my blogs:
No, it opens doors to Democracy, for once we can be recognised as a nation state, with our own nationality. For someone who has accepted and believes he is English this must be easy for you, but for us with no legal nationality its heart breaking.
Next step after recognition would be our own assembly, bringing democracy home.
Seeing as a national assembly of Cornwall is on MK's manifesto... what's the point in have self governance if were all English?
You are really putting me off MK, I used to believe in you.
And while we are waiting for the world to "accept us", legally and culturally, as a separate nation due to historical facts the people of Cornwall should forget about low wages, poor houses, sump estates, seasonal economy disparity, poor infrastructure and all of these other things that effect the lives of people in Cornwall now.
At some point, you have to choose what you want most, retribution or constitution.
There is no need to wait. The political momentum required is the same, irrespective of some abitrary legal victory.
MK is a democratic political party containing, thankfully, a rich and disparate array of pro-Cornwall viewpoints.
I am not an MK spokeswoman, I am a MK member, like many MK members. My words here are just my opinions. As stated elsewhere in this forum, my views are not the MK stance and to construe them as such is a misrepresentation.
And rather than whinge on about MK not being the party for Cornwall that you want, like so many people here do, you can join and make the difference you want to see. We call it "democracy".
Sometimes I sit in an MK meeting and I see people have views diametrically opposed to me, often severely. And I am very sure they think the same. But what I do know, is whatever I think, and whatever they think, we all want a better Cornwall for the people of Cornwall. We are on the same side.
Its so easy to find fault and complain. This is reality, problems are everywhere.
I wish more Cornish nationalists would put more positive effort into Cornish nationalism. In my book its way to much about agreed past wrongs than possible future rights.
If there are clandestine English conspirators who are part of some Century long plan I am sure they love to see the squabble.
Cornwall: For one and all.
That's what I think
Mat
edited by: Nosdan, Jun 01, 2008 - 11:12 AM [/quote]
Freako Mbiko
Please Visit the Wonderful Continent of Kernow and, after that, check out my blogs:
I can't continue to let this pass...
the view that the majority of under 30's are becoming americanised and have little interest in their history as opposed to the children of the generation before them is a large generalisation.
If anything we are becoming a more politically aware with each new generation and are becoming more willing to stand up to our governments and let them know we're not happy.
We can see what America is doing and most of us don't have all that much respect for them if any.
The culture is false and undesirable too.
I want to make it clear that I'm not attacking singular American people here.
The ones you may be referring to are teh ones that society has given up on... The chavs, the thuggish townies who assimilate everything bad about Americanism.
Historic Nationalism has nothing to do with Today, what it does is it proves Cornwalls position as a Nation. The reason it is at the fore, is that the present struggle IS about our National Status. This will disappear once that has been settled. Then we can get on with the real issues that are so rampant in Cornwall. I for one do not think that these issues can be addressed untill the first is won. This is because the 'English' do not want to solve our problems. While we are in the position we are in then 'England' wins in all aspects. While our People struggle to try to get a life they deserv, then they do not rock the boat with their National identity. What the maority of Cornish People fail to grasp is that, without that, we will never raise our standard of living.
It is so easy to criticise Historic Nationalism as being erronous to the real problems, but you have to look deeper. Cause and effect.
You are coming at it from an initial standpoint of conflict and negativity, there will never be any victory by these means, can you name one case where that was the case?
I cant think of any.
You are saying that the only way to raise your standard of living is by fighting the fight in the courts and public arenas until you get what you rightfully deserve historically, even though that would take years were it even possible?
Freako Mbiko
Please Visit the Wonderful Continent of Kernow and, after that, check out my blogs:
All politicians from all parties will say the same and genuinely believe they have the answer. Without a "nationalist" angle via devolution, MK has nothing to offer at all. In fact, it does not have the experience of the 3 big parties or 'people in high places' like they have.
When parties disagree internally or do not have a uniform commitment to policy, they often say 'we don't all think the same' or 'are a broad church' and other such stuff. Note that the biggest hitting parties (UK wide) do better when they are internally uniform with a firmly set policy.
Angofbew goes some way in setting out some attraction and difference in MK.
Mat, I have not forgotten the church. It is one of the Agencies of the English Imperial Hegemony. If you have not seen anyone lying recently, then I can only suggest that you have your eyes and ears closed. For example: How long has the ‘official’ Duchy of Cornwall website been up and running? When was the Duchy of Cornwall 650th Anniversary book published? When was the national curriculum devised and introduced? Why is the Cornish national minority the only one to be specifically excluded from international protections?
I well understand the first point, but your second point just reinforces your own ideological perspective on there being no relationship between historical wrongs and the need for political solutions to Social Justice. An aspect that you have, as yet, never justified why they are unrelated, or why the success of the latter is dependant upon eschewing the former.
The emotive aspect of ‘genocide’ is a manipulated one because of its ‘official’ definition. It is not a sincere definition of ‘genocide’ because it ignores all other possibilities. Each case of genocide is particular to those who are the target group and those who practice it. You seek to euphemise this by suggesting ”a better term would be anglification or something”. Why not just tell the truth so that people can make informed judgements. The erosion of an identity is not distinct from genocide; it is just another apologist’s way of not saying that it is. It is a deliberate lack of respect brought about by the official actions of the State. How do you suggest that this ‘erosion’ or ‘anglification’ is halted and reversed?
I have tried to make the point elsewhere that the perceived act of genocide is also inversely proportional to the time over which it is executed. However you choose to describe what is being done to the Cornish people, you are are only trying to dress a wolf in sheep’s clothing! I would like to be advised why repeating a truth is ‘damaging’?
A contrived ignorance is evil. Who would be alienated by what I say, when I only apply culpability to those who can be shown to support/promote it?
I assume from that, that I am, therefore, a thug and you are a diplomat? Nothing in between?
Please describe for me your consideration of ”the politics of the region” that I am interfering with. Is it not a political aim for the future, that the truth is known, recognised and respected, so that people can make their own judgements based on knowledge rather than lies?
As above. Why does it damage?
I would not insult the Duke in that way. The TEAM-EIS way is far more sophisticated, subtle, intelligent and devious.
Who is, or should be, telling ‘the people’ what happened to achieve this "wow" factor?
The TGG site spells out, in detail, what I consider to be the scenario of genocide, and if anyone takes umbrage at that, then they need to explain why!
STOP THE CORNISH GENOCIDE!- The existence of divergent views occur because the lies and deception have a more profoundly negative, and contrived, consequence for the Cornish people than for anyone else within the UK.
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but your second point just reinforces your own ideological perspective on there being no relationship between historical wrongs and the need for political solutions to Social Justice. An aspect that you have, as yet, never justified why they are unrelated, or why the success of the latter is dependant upon eschewing the former.