I have read the Duchy site, not the book. The book is clearly biased.
Let me put it this way:
If you ask a 911 conspiracy theorists, for example, for evidence they will be able to rattle of nuggets dime a dozen.... controlled demolitions... weird transactions.... thousands of bits of "evidence".
Irrespectve of the validity, they at least have "ammo"
Can you give me, say, three bits of evidence, from either of the sources you mentioned, or any other source, that supports this Conspiracy you so sure of.
Just three points? Possible?
Thanks
Mat
Freako Mbiko
Please Visit the Wonderful Continent of Kernow and, after that, check out my blogs:
Its not a conspiracy. It is the constitutional status of Cornwall as proved without doubt by the Duchy itself in 1865 and supported by over 100 Acts of Parliament.
Everything that everybody puts forward for consideration can be stated as being 'biased' or 'prejudiced'. If you have not read the book, how can you say that it is biased, in a way that you arrogantly imply is negative? It is making statements (based on what is happening now) and substantiating them. Simply saying that the past is irrelevant does not negate its truth, or its relevance to current events and future aspirations.
Give an example of what you would truly accept as 'evidence'? Your mind is already made up and closed to the possibility of there being any!
The existence of divergent views occur because the lies and deception have a more profoundly negative, and contrived, consequence for the Cornish people than for anyone else within this island.
There I would disagree with you, If you look at Ireland within just the last 100 years, you will see how events that happened, decisions that people made, even things that were said, in the early part of the last century, have a very real, and meaningful, impact on politics today, and will do so for a long time to come. How any Irishman could bring themselves to support a Tory or liberal(lib Dem), is beyond me.
If we now go back a little further, we can see that those actions etc were themselves influenced by events etc that occurred earlier, and so on and on.
Whilst the last 100 years in Cornwall have not been quite so eventful, (there have been times in the past where they were comparable) it is still our history. It is history, or what happened in the past, that made us what we are. To say that politically that is irelevent is playing into the hands of those who would have you believe that we are simply just another county of England. Is saying that we are being parochial to object to being lumped into a SW region.
Look at it on a personal level, if, as a child, there was a boy who kept bulling you, stealing your lunch money etc, would you if you meet this boy in later life, say to your self "that was in the past" and lend him your car? No, you would be weary of him, and not start to trust him until he had proved that he was a reformed character. You would, rightly, learn lessons from your history, and use those lessons in your present.
As for not being "what political parties should be catering for", I personally do not want any political party that dose not learn from the past, and does not attempt to rectify the mistakes of the past, so that our present and future can run smoothly, in any position of power.
Right has everything to do with it. Do you really wish to live in a reality with NO morality?
But, according to you, the past should stay in the past, having no relevance to the present. So how can you suggest that the people of the future will have to deal with the bad stuff that happened in their past, because for them, according to you, it will be irelevent.
Or to put it another way, Bad stuff has already happened in the past, our present is the future of those events, and it is now time to deal with it.
Unfortunately, it is of the nature of "the English Conservatives" to completely ignore the past, and the mistakes made, so they are doomed to continually repeat them. However, I would not be a bit surprised, if they thought they could gain from it, were they to do such a thing.
As for "winging on about ancient wrong doings against the Cornish" it is human nature to remember such things. Should the Jews forget the holocaust, the Irish the potato famine, the Africans the European slave trade, the Japanese Hiroshima and Nagasaki? It is also, unfortunately, human nature to try to forget those things that we are ashamed of, or would rather had not happened, and that is when they happen again.
All these things should be remembered, because they have relevance to today, as does the history of Cornwall and the Cornish people.
Cornish history is ignored, and ridiculed, because there are those for whom it would be easier if the Cornish no longer existed. Those events that you claim Cornish Nationalists whinge about, are raised, are shouted about, as much to point out that we do exist, that we are a people with a shared history, one that we are proud of, as to bemoan the fact that they happened. Without that history, we are nothing. Without that history, we have little to fight the powers that would wish us dispersed, with no tie to our land, so that they can do as they wish.
Political parties need to take that into account, because the Cornish exist, they exist now, they exist because of, even in-spite of, our history. we exist now, in the present, and that present needs to be recognised.
Kernow Kensa!
Our day will come!
"Everyone has their own particular part to play. No part is too great or too small, no one is too old or too young to do something."
Im not being arrogant Jim, I have spent lots of time amoungst conspiracy theories (salted.net) and I know by now that as soon as there mention of conspiracy you have to be extra scpetical and extra rational.
Historal unfairness, yes.
Current unfairness, I certainly think so.
But a current conspiracy, thats a paradign shift.
Whether its about Kernow, or Tooth paste or Flight 93, when you call something a conspiracy you change the game.
>>>Give an example of what you would truly accept as 'evidence'? Your mind is already made up and closed to the possibility of there being any!
I would want incriminating facts of conspiracy pertaining to institutional or governmental dishonesty, fraud, coercion or any other wrong doing.
It might be, "In 1998 Tony Blair sighed a document removing the rights of..." And then there would need to be documentary evidence to back that up.
Note that I wont be happy with evidence of unfairness because I agree with you there, fully, Cornwall is treated unfairly.
If you show me the evidence of a real conspiracy, and if it proves it, I'll belive it...
And I'm never arrogant, please A bit of a *****, maybes
Mat
Freako Mbiko
Please Visit the Wonderful Continent of Kernow and, after that, check out my blogs:
The cold hard fact of the matter is that whatever the "true cornish nation" may be, year by year it gets diluted by the same integration that, like it or not, is happening all over Europe. We are becoming one.
So... what can the Cornish Nation do? They can try to fight the inevitable dilution, but because it cant be fought (Nobody is speical, thank goodness), they wont win, so all that can be done is complain. And then all that happens is that the rest of the world thinks we are bumpkin terrorists. Why get scars from a fight that we know cannot be won?
All is imperminant.
All we can do is preserve the culture and history of Cornwall and let it exisist as best it can in this new cluttered future thats facing us all.
[quote=P_Trembath]Look at it on a personal level, if, as a child, there was a boy who kept bulling you, stealing your lunch money etc, would you if you meet this boy in later life, say to your self "that was in the past" and lend him your car?[quote]
No, I belive in Forgiveness, if you dont have that you have hate, and hate really is a poision. On a personal and a national level. Why cant you just let it go, just like the Jews have had to and the Aboriginies and the Native Americans. Why cant the English haters forgive?
[quote=P_Trembath]Right has everything to do with it. Do you really wish to live in a reality with NO morality?
Are suggesting that you wish to maintaing a moral debt against the Englsigh for a series of Crimes going back 700 years?
[quote=P_Trembath]...according to you, the past should stay in the past, having no relevance to the present.[quote]
Please dont misquote me, I have said a thousand times, or less, on this forum that I am totally behind Cornwall and its history and its culture. I have never vered from that. I am saying that its not relevant to who who going to best sort out our housing and salaries and summer infrastructure and world opinion and all that other stuff that change positively the lives of people in Cornwall.
those are political importances and if you can explain how history is relevant to any of them I am, again, all ears.
a progressive Cornish nationalism could be such a bright force for Cornwall, but Cornish nationlist need to decide of they want to be forging and political or agressive and hating.
[quote=P_Trembath]Should the Jews forget the holocaust....[quote]
No, of course not. Equally they should not still be using it as a political motive. And they are not. Can you show me any group who do use historical wrongdoings for future political change?
I am a Buddhist and I believe very much that the negativity of much of the Cornish nationalist movement has achieved nothing but more negatvity and this cycle will not change until people forgive the English
Freako Mbiko
Please Visit the Wonderful Continent of Kernow and, after that, check out my blogs:
History.
The Duchy Charters, the Foreshore Case and over 100 Acts of Parliament make Charles Windsor the head of state of Cornwall and places the 'county' of Cornwall firmly WITHIN the Duchy of Cornwall as a territorial possession.
The Duchy of Cornwall is the official and inalienable government of Cornwall.
Governments do politics, Cornwall's government was set up in the distant past.
Which bit don't you get in relation to Cornish politics and Cornish history?
The Duchy Charters, the Foreshore Case and over 100 Acts of Parliament make Charles Windsor the head of state of Cornwall and places the 'county' of Cornwall firmly WITHIN the Duchy of Cornwall as a territorial possession.
The Duchy of Cornwall is the official and inalienable government of Cornwall.
Governments do politics, Cornwall's government was set up in the distant past.
Relates to any of this:
best sort out our housing and salaries and summer infrastructure and world opinion.....
simply show me!
Freako Mbiko
Please Visit the Wonderful Continent of Kernow and, after that, check out my blogs:
Leave it out Guys ! If he think's that Africa is a Country and not a Continent, me thinks you're not going to convince him.
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Red Yelow Blue or Maroon. It's just a shuffling of shite.
Forgive me if I do not find the prospect of one large homogeneous culture one to be looked forward to, or even encouraged. I prefer a prospect of many diverse cultures, each different, and each having its own "base". When you say "We are becoming one" I would have no problem with that if it meant becoming one united group of diverse peoples, each respecting the different cultures, traditions, and languages of the others, what I am afraid I see is a determined push towards an homogeneous grey encompassing culture, who's population is, therefore, that much easier to control. Where nowhere is any different, culturally, from anywhere else.
That is why history is so important, without it there is nothing to fight the dilution you mention, nothing to prevent it from achieving that onerous homogeneous grey culture.
I do not believe that your dilution is inevitable, and it can be fought. But to fight it, we need to improve peoples awareness of their culture, and the fact that it is special (unlike you, I believe that everyone is special, thank goodness), and that it needs protecting and preserving, as do all other cultures/ethnic groups. If we are able to do that, if we are allowed to do that, then we can win.
If we "let it go" we are lost. Incidentally, I think you will find that neither the Jews, The Aborigines, or the Native Americans have let it go either, they are all, in their own way, still fighting.
You mention "English haters", this is a theme that keeps recurring, and one that I find particularly offensive. I hate no-one. I do not hate the English, I am married to one, and she is proud of her heritage, I have no problem with that. I do have a problem with those people who would deny me my right to exist as a Cornishman, who wish to place me in a grouping of their choice, ignoring my, and my Country's history. Even then, I do not hate them, just pity there ignorance, and lack of respect. I do hate the English establishment, that encourages such behaviour, but it is the establishment that I hate, not the people who run it, as they are ignorant of the truth, and have been brought up to believe what they have been told, and not to question it, in a way, it is not their fault. So please lets leave this hate myth behind, it is only propagated by those who have no more imagination than to believe the saying "if your not with us, your against us", and do not recognise that it is possible to be "with" but not "of".
I am suggesting no such thing, I was reacting to your statement
It is morally wrong to deny a person his identity, it is morally wrong to deny a group of people their identity. The crimes of the past were in the past, but by continuing to deny us our identity, those crimes are being repeated today, although they have, at least, stopped killing us.
If you feel that I have misquoted you, I apologize, it was not meant, I just understood that to be what you meant when you said
I.e. the past is past, and should stay there.
I have been trying, if I have failed, that is down to my inability to express myself clearly enough, it is not due to history's irrelavence.
I do not see that learning from, and addressing the issues of, our history, and being forging and political, are mutually exclusive. I believe it is possible to be both. Please lets loose the "hating" bit.
I can show you your own previous examples, The Aborigines, the Native Americans, and the Jews (all right, the last one was mine), all of them, and others besides, are fighting, in their own ways, past injustice's. Both the Aborigines, and Native Americans, are both fighting, both politically, and in the courts, over land rights, and broken treaties. Both are having, although as yet limited, success. As for the Jews, the whole reason for the existence of their country, Israel, is as a result of their fighting against nearly 2,000 years of historic injustice, The fact that they may not have learnt the right lessons from their history, and are now committing injustice's on others, is both regrettable, and perhaps proof that learning from history is important
I do not know much about Buddhism, and am not sure of it's relevance here, but the only negativity that I see in the Cornish Nationalist Movements, is a reaction to the negativity directed towards them.
As for forgiving the English, forgiveness in itself is an empty gesture until the transgressor admits they have done something that requires forgiveness. It is also not the English who have transgressed, but the English establishment, two totally different things, for that establishment has also transgressed against the English.
Kernow Kensa!
Our day will come!
"Everyone has their own particular part to play. No part is too great or too small, no one is too old or too young to do something."
If Charles Windsor is brought out into the spotlight in his true capacity then Cornwall has to be recognised as extra territorial to England. That would make it very hard for them to keep us out of the Framework Convention for the Protection of National Minorities, as the UK Government is claiming exclusion because Cornwall is just another English county.
Inclusion in the FCPNM would put restrictions on the amount of immigration into Cornwall, as you cannot dilute the population of a minority too much when that minority has its own small territory. So less houses would be built and immigration control could become a hot topic.
With a newly recognised ethnic status and more control over how Cornish-ness survives into the future, more jobs for Cornish people would be created, less Cornish people would be excluded from high salaried jobs as they would have protection from discrimination, not to mention a new found sense of pride and confidence that would bring more to the surface the inherent and abundant creativity and inventiveness so apparent in the Cornish communities of times gone by.
Fetch the Duchy to the dock and you'll create a brand new future for Cornwall based entirely on events that occurred in the past.
Our Future is nothing but History. It just needs to be resumed and continued from the present, onwards.
Some Buddhist you are, look at the amount of negativity in you post...
Where do you see this hate, I would say that I am pretty active in and understanding of the Cornish situation...I don't see the hate you speak of, just good honest truthful people who are getting s**t on...
Ask the men who got wrongfully arrested about forgiveness you might learn what it really means...
So you think its Ok to build 70k houses in the dilution process do you?
The mere fact that you say I am a Buddist makes you not one...
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