V Tree
A large V shaped pine tree on the Antony estate near Torpoint...
Seaton Beach
Located at the bottom of the Seaton River valley this sand and shingle beach is popular with families. At low tide it joins up with Downderry around the headland...
Seaton River
The Seaton River as it flows out of the valley and through the village of the same name...
Portwrinkle
Looking down over the one time fishing village of Portwrinkle. In the background is the start of Whitsand Bay as it stretches 4 miles down the Rame Peninsula...
Devon's Celtic claims are very exaggerated and do not reflect any main stream culture. The residual Celtic past is present in many English counties, but all have been virtually totally subsumed by Anglo culture. For example Cornwall's place names are approximately 80% Celtic. Devon and many of the other English counties have a much lower proportion, many of dubious or ambiguous origin. Shame really, another few miles and they'd all have been perfect.
Devon effectively WAS Cornwall hundreds of years ago, with the probable boundary as the Exe river in the south and the Taw in the north.
DNA of truly local people from families who have stayed in one area for generations SUGGEST that not just Devon, but MUCH of England still has a lot of early British DNA, and that the idea that Angles Saxons (et al) "drove the celts westward" is currently not favoured by many historians.
I don't care what sort of identity Devon wants to claim for itself. Let them get on with it. (after all, being cynical, its probably mainly "PR" for tourism.)
Historically and scientifically the use of the word "Celtic" is (searching for the right word.....)--suspect (?) these days, and for some people the term merely conjures up a mish-mash of mysticism, myth and romantic wishful thinking, which I don't think does modern Cornwall's image a lot of good.
The whole "celtic" thing in Cornwall has been overplayed in my opinion.
I say let Devon claim everything "Celtic" they want, find a likely site up there for Camelot, have the piskeys, the knackers, help themselves to a tartan or two, (They've already got their own Stannaries).
-Perhaps then some of the more gullible tourists will stay east of the Tamar!
Interesting point GD.
One of the most recent surveys, found that the greatest density of people with celtic DNA was actually just between Swindon and Glastonbury.
So any one of these counties, like Cornwall can rightfully claim celtin heritage.
I agree with Coady, about the overplaying of the celtic thing in Cornwall - tartans and even the flag are recent add ons. What is wrong with the splendid and well established Cornish coat of arms with the motto 'One and all'?
The prevailing historical viewpoint is to try to not use celtic when referring to archaelogical remains but associate with areas that have a common linguistic root in modern times. DNA really has little to do with it.
From that perspective Cornwall is and was linguistically celtic in modern times - Devon most certainly was not. The celtic regions share some similarities but also many substantial differences. Celtic is a useful shorthand for highlighting the similarities.
Celtic heritage can't reasonably be claimed by people with ancient DNA heritage.
I don't like saying this but... you sound like Englishmen about Cornwall.
If it wants Inedependace aswell, let it.
To the 'Celtic' debate.
Yes, things in Britain can be called Celtic as all Britain was Celtic, not just the corners.
If a person call claim Celtic ancestry they are Celtic, if they cannot, they are not. Simple.
That would be like calling yourself native American Indian and your family is actually from France!
Devon was Cornwall - Fact
Devon was Celtic - Fact
Devon is Celtic - Debatable
Lets look at both sides here
Arguements FOR Devon being Celtic
- It was a Celtic nation as was Cornwall
- It was part of Cornwall
- It has/had a Celtic language (Cornish/Dumnonian?)
- It had its own Stannary parliament, as did we
- They were included in the Charter of Pardon (i believe, was it?)
Arguement AGAINST Devon being Celtic
- It wasn't described in old writings as a seperate people's
- It doesnt have its own Celtic language
- It doesnt have (many?) Celtic ruins/sites
- It doesnt have wide support
[quote=Coady]Devon effectively WAS Cornwall hundreds of years ago, with the probable boundary as the Exe river in the south and the Taw in the north.
Actually....wasn't the entire island of England Once upon a time Kernow? maybe not of the same tribes and such, but certainly Celts before the Vikings, Saxons, Romans, French arrived. And cant remember where, but someone said that ''the clets were pushed into the undesirable places of the British isles''
Absoloutely untrue, Scotland, Wales and Kernow are some of the most beutiful places in the British isles. England does have some places of magnificent beuty but not to the extent of the highlands or snowdonia, well....Poole is gorgeous and so are the cotswolds.
In contemporary studies about nationalism, culture, identity and ethnicity are seperated from things like DNA. This is because the practices associated with culture and ethnicity are derived from practices associated with a geographical area and how a People live, work and interact on the territory which they inhabit.
This means that the people of Cornwall, both more recent migrants as well as persons with a long family history in a place can have a way of life and set of understandings (and therefore culture) that are different to a neighbouring territory, even if technically there are some genetic similarities between the two.
Therefore, it is far more logical for someone who has lived in Cornwall for a while, comes to identify with the place and call it home to consider themselves a part of Cornish culture, than someone who's ancestors have a Cornish Celtic DNA but have never visited or perhaps even shown an interest in the region.
Therefore, it seems to me that debates about DNA are of little real value. Its widely accepted that borders are highly artificial in human terms. So what if people in Devon have Celtic DNA. Its more important to show that they've got a distinct culture to the English, Saxon set of understandings and values.
Absolutely right Joanie. Considering what DNA tells us, there can be no such concept as 'Celtic', or 'Saxon', or any other DNA. The whole discussion can only ever be about negative festering and nothing at all to do with personality, aspiration, sensitivity, self-awareness, integrity or affiliations.
The existence of divergent views occur because the lies and deception have a more profoundly negative, and contrived, consequence for the Cornish people than for anyone else within this island.
The existence of divergent views occur because the lies and deception have a more profoundly negative, and contrived, consequence for the Cornish people than for anyone else within this island.
ShelterBox team in 'good spirits'
A Cornish charity packs another 1,000 survival boxes after becoming one of the first teams into the Burmese cyclone zone.
Man hurt in 'tombstoning' plunge
A man suspected of "tombstoning" off a cliff in Cornwall is in hospital with spinal injuries
Work begins to repair canal gates
Work is under way to repair the storm-damaged lock gates of Cornwall's Bude Canal.
Brown wants more homes for young
Gordon Brown says he wants to help young people in Cornwall buy houses
Gangmaster hits back after losing licence
A gangmaster has spoken out after having his licence revoked amid claims of forced labour.
Pupil's punishment 'not enough'
A mother criticises a one-day suspension for a pupil who attacked her daughter at a Cornish school.
Prime Minister visits Eden
The Prime Minister made an impromptu visit to Cornwall today and enjoyed an extensive tour of the Eden Project.
Flora day celebrations
Thousands flocked to Helston's ancient Flora Day on Thursday and while they arrived in their droves, rain - thankfully - stayed (mostly) away.
