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Lib-dems in meltdown

piskey6 Posted: 23.06.2008, 22:55

piskey6

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Egloshal, if AG really didn't want the UA then why did he campaign in support of it before the bill was passed, and why did he not publicly oppose it before the bill was passed?

If putting party before Cornwall on this level is supposed to be a tactic to stay as MP, then is selling Cornwall down the river worth it? Surely if 80 percent of Penwith people were against the UA he could have rebelled against his party and kept his seat.

The rebel vote in the commons was meaningless because AG would have known as a Labour majority bill it would have been passed anyway. The rebel vote was a token gesture.



edited by: piskey6, Jun 23, 2008 - 10:56 PM
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IrishJack Posted: 24.06.2008, 09:21

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piskey6Most MK councillors are regarded as Independents, not as party puppets. They are highly regarded by their voters and work on the ground, with the people, and get out there and engage.


Most MK are regarded as independents? So are you suggesting that MK is a ragtaggle collection of solo runners? No wonder they provide no threat to the LibDems.

You may disregard the independents, but they demonstarte the way to get elected and remain popular with limited resources against the LibDem and Tory machines. After all theres no point in having a political party that doesn't go all out to be popular and get elected, as whatever you beliefs they are irrelevant unless you have power.

19 Independent County Councillors 0 MK County Councillors

How can MK as an organised political party claim to represent the views of cornish people when it doesn't even have 1 county councillor or an independent willing to affiliate with the party?

Or is your original statement
piskey6Most MK councillors are regarded as Independents, not as party puppets. They are highly regarded by their voters and work on the ground, with the people, and get out there and engage.

a way of claim county councillors by the back door? councillors that won't publicly acknowledge an association with MK.
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piskey6 Posted: 24.06.2008, 09:37

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Where do MK claim to represent the views of Cornish people? Cornish people have a variety of political views. Show where MK have stated such an arrogant claim.

There are no official MK county councillors, yet there are county councillors who are either MK members or very much take the same view as MK. Likewise there are Independents who take a similar view to other political parties.

You also need to bear in mind that many people in Cornwall want a Cornish Assembly. This was a major pledge by the Lib-Dems in 2005. Many Tories, Labour and Independents want a Cornish Assembly too. As this is one of MK's major campaigns, then it would be fair to say that at the time, MK were quite happy for the other parties to support the campaign. MK's agenda is to get a Cornish Assembly, so having no county councillors yet a county council on the road to an Assembly would not be ideal for the party, but at least MK could have supported them in this aspect. The Lib-Dems have now reneged on that pledge.






edited by: piskey6, Jun 24, 2008 - 09:44 AM
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IrishJack Posted: 24.06.2008, 09:49

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Ok, not represent the views of cornish people, but are alledgely the party for cornwall.

Perhaps thats the problem?

If any independent county councillors are members of MK by definition they aren'6t independents and should declare their position rather than lie to their electorate, this kind of duplicity should not be tolerated from any politicians.

Yes they may take similar views to MK, but why then would being under the MK banner might make them unelectable?

Wow, a district councillor defected, what powers can MK bring to bear as a result of that monumental event. It would be newsworthy if it were an MP, but for jesus sake MK can't even get any county councillors to be official members of the party (and therefore no longer be indepenedents).

Yes, agree LibDems are no good for cornwall, as they are either undercover unionists or slack journeymen. But MK can't even muster to adequately challenge these bunch of muppets.



edited by: IrishJack, Jun 24, 2008 - 09:51 AM

Tiocfaidh ar La,
But I'm starting to think that it won't for us cornish, no unity, no leadership, but lots of factions and backbiting

The Bureaucracy needs to expand to meet the needs of the Bureaucracy

http://www.ross...ollkelly.ie/
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piskey6 Posted: 24.06.2008, 10:00

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IJ, MK are a very small party, given their size and resources, I think they are doing quite enough where they are elected. It seems you don't agree with that, and you are entitled to your opinion, which given that you don't live in Cornwall, counts for very little!

Any Independents or other County Councilors that have sympathies with, or are members of, MK, do quite openly state that! Again, given that you don't live in Cornwall, this explains your ignorance of this fact. Why don't you refrain from making assertions and assumptions based mostly on your own imagination and the ramblings of a minority of misinformed cod 'Cornish Nationalists' that inhabit this forum?





edited by: piskey6, Jun 24, 2008 - 10:04 AM
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IrishJack Posted: 24.06.2008, 10:11

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Simply, how can a politician claim to be independent and be a member of a political party?

This is simply lying to the electorate, none of the CCC indepenedents mention their membership of Mk in their personal profiles that I have seen, please enlighten us to these MK sleepers and provide associated links to support your position.

Small resources, blah blah blah, does this really mean no support? 'cos' volunteers not finance/media support win local elections.
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piskey6 Posted: 24.06.2008, 11:21

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Shows how much you know about politics. The 'Independents' are listed as a political group on EVERY council in Cornwall. Any councillor from any party can ask to sit on any group. The 'Independent' groups make decisions collectively and POLITICALLY.

When I refer to MK resources, I include volunteers to help with leafleting, canvassing and campaigning - they work very hard but there are not enough. Forum bothering 'ideas merchants' such as you do little to compound the fact that Cornwall24 is anything but a majority of idle misguided and (irrationally) opinionated buffoons with a limited and largely deluded understanding of Cornish politics.



edited by: piskey6, Jun 24, 2008 - 11:27 AM
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piskey6 Posted: 24.06.2008, 11:26

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I mean 'MK sleepers'! That's fantastic stuff IJ. I'm sure if there are any MK sleepers on St Just parish council they've got some really big plans to take over the parks department and convert the lawnmowers to use as blockades for the revolution!

Then again, perhaps they're members of MK because they like their manifesto, and don't bother forming an MK political group because it's not necessary for their aims and objectives, which is simply the day to day running of the parish council.



edited by: piskey6, Jun 24, 2008 - 11:29 AM
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IrishJack Posted: 24.06.2008, 11:31

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Me is cornish, piskey, just 'cos' me name aint got something cornish init don't mean I aint of the gold and black.

I find it intriguing that so many cornish posters are anti-irish, seen as RoI are the only indepenednt celtic state where most help should be sought. I have questioned, as indicated on C24, why elements of the cornish movement contact Sein Fein rather than Fianna Fail for precisely the reasons of association with bully boy criminal nationalism.

Why don't you tell us all then, which CCCllrs are MK members who are aligned with the independent group, as I'm ignorant. If they are members of a political party why would they be embararsed to have this information presented here or anywhere?
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piskey6 Posted: 24.06.2008, 12:23

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deleted.



edited by: piskey6, Jun 24, 2008 - 12:31 PM
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IrishJack Posted: 24.06.2008, 12:33

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Fair enough, but if it such common knowledge I don't see the problem in reproducing it here.

Isn't it generally the case that fledgling states see help, for example by ratification of their nationhood, from established states?

I agree I think the celtic brotherhood is a romantic myth. But many others, such as FlB, seem to think it exists.

What could be more helpful to Cornwall than RoI at the EU level questioning the UK as to why the cornish are not included as a minority group. Or the SNP governing party of the scotiish parliament passing a motion in favour of a cornish assembly. Unfortunately we probbably need a united political entity to represnt the cornish people to these governmnets.

This political entity can't be MK because a you've said piskey they aren't interested in representing the views of the cornish people.

piskey6Where do MK claim to represent the Cornish people?
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IrishJack Posted: 24.06.2008, 12:33

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Double click double post. Soz.



edited by: IrishJack, Jun 24, 2008 - 12:34 PM

Tiocfaidh ar La,
But I'm starting to think that it won't for us cornish, no unity, no leadership, but lots of factions and backbiting

The Bureaucracy needs to expand to meet the needs of the Bureaucracy

http://www.ross...ollkelly.ie/
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Fulub-le-Breton Posted: 02.07.2008, 17:16

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It's been a while now that I'm signed up to the excellent -TheyWorkForYou.com- website which ensures I get regular updates on what my MP is doing. I can only recommend it. An example below:


Julia Goldsworthy (Shadow Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government, Department for Communities and Local Government; Falmouth & Camborne, Liberal Democrat)

Hansard source Watch this

The Minister's Department likes to talk the talk about community empowerment and engagement, but it does not walk the walk. Is that not apparent in its approach to eco-towns? What does the Minister think speaks more loudly to the British public: a declaration of passionate commitment to the empowerment agenda, or the imposition of eco-towns against the will of the local community and its elected representatives through site-specific planning policy guidance that can then be overturned on appeal? Do not actions speak louder than words?

Yes interesting Julia and you surely have a point but one might ask why then you are a member of the party that has sold Cornwall’s democratic aspirations up the river, ignored the will of the people and imposed a unitary authority.



The Cornish Democrat
The Breton Connection
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