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WWIII inevitable?

ilovehelston Posted: 04.09.2008, 13:35



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TaranYou haven't answered any of my questions.

I have already answered the first of yours many times. Please reread the posts particularly those pertaining to the Georgian Civil war in 1990-91 and the aftermath of that.

Russia is democratic because it elects its MP's. Russia is a bougeois liberal think you are mistaking Russia for the Soviet Union.democracy along the same lines as any of the other main European nations. Their democracy and economic system are the same as that in the France of Germany. I

Iran is democratic for the same reason. Iran has the complication that it is a theocracy and they can intervene, but on whole the government of Iran is there with popular support and elected by the populace. therefore the Government is democratic.



You can hardly call those countries free though could you
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Coady Posted: 04.09.2008, 13:59

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Mad as a fish!

This thread's title is "WW111 inevitable?"

Well, I believe it is IF anyone like ILH ever ends up in charge!

We live in interesting times.
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Taran Posted: 04.09.2008, 14:11

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You are ignoring what I have said and asked.

ilovehelstonYou can hardly call those countries free though could you


Russia is as free if not more free than the UK. and as free as France or Germany or Italy or Poland or Slovakia or Slovenia or Portugal or Spain or any other 'democratic' country.

As for Iran, that is more free than the Vatican or Israel.

Anyway, what has that to do with anything we have been talking about? Nothing at all - you have gone off on a tangent.




edited by: Taran, Sep 04, 2008 - 02:40 PM
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Coady Posted: 04.09.2008, 14:25

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Did someone say Ilovehelston's "gone off on a tandem??"

I bet the nit is trying to ride it from the back seat!

We live in interesting times.
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ilovehelston Posted: 04.09.2008, 22:07



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CoadyMad as a fish!

This thread's title is "WW111 inevitable?"

Well, I believe it is IF anyone like ILH ever ends up in charge!



Are Russia and Iran as free as USA?

No
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ilovehelston Posted: 04.09.2008, 22:11



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TaranYou are ignoring what I have said and asked.

ilovehelstonYou can hardly call those countries free though could you


Russia is as free if not more free than the UK. and as free as France or Germany or Italy or Poland or Slovakia or Slovenia or Portugal or Spain or any other 'democratic' country.

As for Iran, that is more free than the Vatican or Israel.

Anyway, what has that to do with anything we have been talking about? Nothing at all - you have gone off on a tangent.
edited by: Taran, Sep 04, 2008 - 02:40 PM



How is Iran more 'free' then Isreal??

Well, let us take women's rights. In Iran women have to wear a headscarf, not so in Isrreal
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Coady Posted: 04.09.2008, 23:06

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Taran.. has it occurred to you that ILH might possibly just be winding you up?

We live in interesting times.
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cornishrebel2 Posted: 05.09.2008, 01:21

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Doubt over Russia after Georgia crisis: Cheney
Thursday, 4 September 2008 14:55

US Vice President Dick Cheney says Russia has cast doubt on its reliability as an international partner with an illegitimate attempt to change Georgia's borders.

'After your nation won its freedom in the Rose Revolution, America came to the aid of this courageous young democracy,' Mr Cheney told reporters at a joint news briefing in Tbilisi with Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili.

'We are doing so again as you work to overcome an invasion of your sovereign territory and an illegitimate unilateral attempt to change your country's borders by force that has been universally condemned by the free world,' Mr Cheney said.

Advertisement'Russia's actions have cast grave doubt on Russia's intentions and on its reliability as an international partner - not just in Georgia but across this region and, indeed, throughout the international system,' he added.

He also said the US is fully committed to Georgia's bid for membership of the NATO alliance.

'America is fully committed to Georgia's Membership Action Plan for NATO and to its eventual membership in the alliance,' Mr Cheney said.


Mr Cheney's visit comes a day after the US boosted aid for the country.

The visit aims to demonstrate US backing for strategic countries in the region as relations with Russia sink to a post-Cold War low, and Washington bids to form new energy alliances to offset Moscow's oil and gas dominance.

The trip marks the highest level visit by a US official to Georgia since the country fought a five-day war last month with Russia over the breakaway region of South Ossetia. It is also Mr Cheney's first ever visit to Tbilisi.

After talks with Mr Saakashvili, the US vice president is to visit US aid operations in Georgia, a day after promising that Washington had a deep and abiding interest in the region's security.

His tour is to highlight US President George W Bush's announcement of a €690m aid package for its embattled ally, and shore up the US-Georgian alliance after Russia's President Dmitry Medvedev described the Georgian leader as a political corpse.

The US has taken a lead role supporting Georgia since hostilities erupted last month over Moscow-backed rebel regions South Ossetia and Abkhazia, which Russia has since recognised as independent.

Mr Cheney started his tour in oil-rich Azerbaijan, touting common interest in energy security and noting that even though parts of the trip were planned earlier, his talks with Azerbaijan President Ilyham Aliyev took place 'in the shadow of the recent Russian invasion of Georgia'.

Recalling how he and Mr Aliyev 'met some years in the past when we were both in the energy business,' Mr Cheney vowed that 'The United States has a deep and abiding interest in your well being and security'.

Conflict cost Georgia €2bn - study

After talks with chiefs of oil companies in the region, Mr Cheney pressed for more routes for energy exports, in a reference to oil and gas pipelines in the works that would avoid going through Russia, but offered no details on whether any new deals were struck.

'Together with the nations of Europe, including Turkey, we must work with Azerbaijan and other countries in the Caucasus and Central Asia on additional routes for energy exports that ensure the free flow of resources,' Mr Cheney said.

Mr Cheney's tour of Georgian relief operations is certain to anger Russia, whose Prime Minister Vladimir Putin warned this week that Russia would react to a build-up of NATO naval forces in the Black Sea.

A NATO spokesman yesterday promised 'there is no NATO naval build-up in the Black Sea, only a temporary deployment of four ships participating in a training and interoperability exercise' off the coasts of Bulgaria and Romania.

The West has expressed outrage at Russia's military action and its recognition of the rebel regions, and NATO's chief Jaap de Hoop Scheffer plans to visit Georgia later this month for further aid talks.

The EU also plans an international donors conference for Georgia and the International Monetary Fund announced it would come up with a €515m package for Georgia, if its executive board approves.

The conflict cost Georgia about €2bn, according to a new study by the Vienna Institute for International Economic Studies (WIIW).

Announcing the US aid package in Washington, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said: 'With our full support and the support of the entire free world, a democratic Georgia will survive, will rebuild and will thrive.'

Mr Bush will work with US lawmakers, who may have to approve the funds, to free up to €395m this year, with the remaining €295m coming later, she said.

The Georgian parliament yesterday formally lifted a state of war declared when the hostilities broke out, but Russia and Georgia closed down diplomatic exchanges.

Russia suspended visas for Georgian citizens and repeated that it would pull troops out of Georgia only when a French-brokered peace plan was fully implemented.

Moscow withdrew most of its forces under the ceasefire plan, but thousands of Russian troops that Moscow terms peacekeepers remain in the two rebel regions and in a buffer zone.

Mr Medvedev will seek backing for his country's intervention at a Moscow summit of seven ex-Soviet states tomorrow.


http://www.rte....georgia.html

Look I am thick as two short plank's get a brain

What does it mean to be English?
Being English is about driving in a German car to an Irish pub for a Belgian beer then travelling home grabbing an Indian curry or a Chinese on the way to sit on Swedish furniture and watch American soap shows on a Japane
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Taran Posted: 05.09.2008, 10:14

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CoadyTaran.. has it occurred to you that ILH might possibly just be winding you up?


Certainly icon_smile but I will give her/him the benefit of the doubt for now.

ILH, You concentrate on a single tangential issue and just start repeating yourself. This is not a discussion or an interchange of ideas, or even an argument.

The relative democratic status of Iran. Russia, America, Iran or Israel is totally outside of the Georgian situation.

You have chosen to completely ignore everything that has been explained to you. If you are a windup merchant then you aren't presenting a very clever example of one.

If you aren't trying to wind me up then the fundamental problems you exhibit are a lack of attention, a poor grasp of the facts and a superficial or just plain incorrect grasp of the international situation. Also you do not appear to read, or maybe don't understand the answers that others write to you, merely copy them out.

The USA is a poor example of democracy. The federal government is more a plutocracy than a democracy, with all senators and the president being billionaires and in hock to wealthy vested business interests. The political parties are almost indistinguishable ideologically, and the populace is kept ignorant of the global and internal situation by a press that is emasculated and self censoring or reactionary. Either way Americans, on the whole are not best placed to make informed choices in their political system. If the populace is not able to make informed choices then the 'democratic process' itself is worthless as it pays only lip service to the ideals of such a system. I do not consider America 'free'. But once again that subject is irrelevant to the earlier discussions revolving around Georgian murder of Ossetian civilians that started the war.






edited by: Taran, Sep 05, 2008 - 03:47 PM
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ilovehelston Posted: 05.09.2008, 17:03



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Taran
CoadyTaran.. has it occurred to you that ILH might possibly just be winding you up?


Certainly icon_smile but I will give her/him the benefit of the doubt for now.

ILH, You concentrate on a single tangential issue and just start repeating yourself. This is not a discussion or an interchange of ideas, or even an argument.

The relative democratic status of Iran. Russia, America, Iran or Israel is totally outside of the Georgian situation.

You have chosen to completely ignore everything that has been explained to you. If you are a windup merchant then you aren't presenting a very clever example of one.

If you aren't trying to wind me up then the fundamental problems you exhibit are a lack of attention, a poor grasp of the facts and a superficial or just plain incorrect grasp of the international situation. Also you do not appear to read, or maybe don't understand the answers that others write to you, merely copy them out.

The USA is a poor example of democracy. The federal government is more a plutocracy than a democracy, with all senators and the president being billionaires and in hock to wealthy vested business interests. The political parties are almost indistinguishable ideologically, and the populace is kept ignorant of the global and internal situation by a press that is emasculated and self censoring or reactionary. Either way Americans, on the whole are not best placed to make informed choices in their political system. If the populace is not able to make informed choices then the 'democratic process' itself is worthless as it pays only lip service to the ideals of such a system. I do not consider America 'free'. But once again that subject is irrelevant to the earlier discussions revolving around Georgian murder of Ossetian civilians that started the war.


edited by: Taran, Sep 05, 2008 - 03:47 PM


How exactly would you say that USA is not free? It is a society that has never had a dictatorship. Article one of the us constitution guarantees free speech, its citizens are cultured, intellectual, and if they cannot make decisions, then who should?

And why should Russian tanks be in another country?
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Taran Posted: 05.09.2008, 21:04

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QuoteAnd why should Russian tanks be in another country?

That has already been explained two or three time, and those answers referenced another two times. You aren't reading or listening are you.

Why are British tanks in other countries?
Why are American tanks in other countries?
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cornishrebel2 Posted: 05.09.2008, 23:23

cornishrebel2

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Russian tanks etc are and have been Georgia because Georgia deiced to invade south Ossetia

What does it mean to be English?
Being English is about driving in a German car to an Irish pub for a Belgian beer then travelling home grabbing an Indian curry or a Chinese on the way to sit on Swedish furniture and watch American soap shows on a Japane
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ilovehelston Posted: 06.09.2008, 12:56



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[quote=Taran]
CoadyTaran.. has i

The USA is a poor example of democracy. The federal government is more a plutocracy than a democracy, with all senators and the president being billionaires and in hock to wealthy vested business interests. The political parties are almost indistinguishable ideologically, and the populace is kept ignorant of the global and internal situation by a press that is emasculated and self censoring or reactionary. Either way Americans, on the whole are not best placed to make informed choices in their political system. If the populace is not able to make informed choices then the 'democratic process' itself is worthless as it pays only lip service to the ideals of such a system. I do not consider America 'free'. But once again that subject is irrelevant to the earlier discussions revolving around Georgian murder of Ossetian civilians that started the war.


edited by: Taran, Sep 05, 2008 - 03:47 PM


There is a wide variaton of difference between the parties

How is the American media reactionary?
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ilovehelston Posted: 06.09.2008, 12:57



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cornishrebel2Russian tanks etc are and have been Georgia because Georgia deiced to invade south Ossetia


Which is considered Georgian territory
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P_Trembath Posted: 06.09.2008, 14:33

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ilovehelston, you have still not answered my question.

P_TrembathSo your saying that if Russia were to vote to join NATO, then they should automatically become members?


How about China?

Or Iran?




Kernow Kensa!


Our day will come!


"Everyone has their own particular part to play. No part is too great or too small, no one is too old or too young to do something."
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