Russian backing for Georgian separatists
Monday, 25 August 2008 15:45
Both houses of the Russian parliament have voted for a resolution calling on President Dmitry Medvedev to recognise Georgia's breakaway regions of South Ossetia and Abkhazia as independent states.
The Federation Council voted 130 for the resolution with none against. Russia's State Duma also passed the resolution.
It comes nearly three weeks after Russian troops entered Georgia to repel an attempt to regain control of South Ossetia.
Russia said it has completed its military pull-back from positions in Georgia, but has established buffer zones along their administrative borders with Georgia.
Meanwhile, a senior Russian general has accused NATO countries of using humanitarian aid as cover for a build-up of naval forces in the Black Sea.
The charge came as the first of three US ships unloaded 55 tonnes of aid at the Georgian port of Batumi which lies 80km south of the Russian-controlled port of Poti.
President Medvedev said today that Russia was prepared for a full break in relations with NATO but urged the Western alliance to avert such a rupture.
He said Russia's relations with NATO had become 'complicated' over the conflict in Georgia.
'There has been a dramatic worsening of our relations, but we are not to blame,' Mr Medvedev said.
NATO last week suspended meetings of a NATO-Russia cooperation council to press demands that Moscow pull its forces out of Georgia and has called for the troops to return to positions they held before the conflict in South Ossetia.
They say that they are only there to drop aid to Georgia yea right they are there to spy on Russia and if Russia go in again they have short range to atack if it all kicks of again
What does it mean to be English?
Being English is about driving in a German car to an Irish pub for a Belgian beer then travelling home grabbing an Indian curry or a Chinese on the way to sit on Swedish furniture and watch American soap shows on a Japane
No, you are wrong. Georgia was the agressor, they attacked Tskhinvali with rockets and bombs. Read my earlier post for Christ's sakes!
I am not supporting the Russian position, They are simply another 'democratic' Capitalist nation now. I am merely taking issue with your incredibly shallow interpretation of international events. This is not a school playground, and these countries are not school bullies, neither do they embark upon military action for a laugh!
Russia was in Gerogia to keep the peace after the 1991 georgian civil wars, a situation that has remained relatively calm for a decade and a half until Saakashvili decided to bring the separatist regions to heel by force. A stupid and brutal move by anyone's standards. And one he could not hope to have achieved militarily, so Why did he do such a stupid thing?
Taking a broader look at who gains what here, America may get another NATO member by overcoming internal NATO opposition to Georgia's acceptance (mostly from France and Germany) with the sympathy vote or it could even be that the Americans prodded the lunatic Saakashvili into doing this in the full knowledge that Russia would strike back hard, to put a bit of lead into the Polish pencil over the Americans ABM system which is designed to identify and intercept Russian missiles (not Palestinian Qasam welded pipe rockets full of weed killer!). After the Russian action the Polish pen was straight on the paper and they signed their souls away to be part of America's ABM system, immediately making them a primary Russian nuclear target for the first time.
ILH, your perspective is so incredibly narrow, ignorant of the facts and naive that it beggars belief.
The Russians have now recognised Abkhazia and South Ossetia as independant.
I suspect this is a move to have Russian troops permanently stationed on Ossetian and Abkhazian soil. The reasoning behind this is, I think, that NATO membership for Georgia becomes even more problematical. An active and bloody territorial dispute in the area of a member state of NATO becomes a major problem. There can be absolutely no military help from NATO to remove the Russians by force as this would risk all out war, not something anybody wants outside of a handful of religious lunatics in the US who think this is the 'End of Days' and who are looking forward to the next coming of Christ. For a glimpse of looney world see here : http://www.prophecyupdate.com/
But maybe it is these lunatics that have taken over the American assylulm?
As Taran has said this has given the Russians the excuse now to keep its troops on the border of Gerogia.
Russia recognises Georgian rebels
Tuesday, 26 August 2008 19:47
Russia has formally recognised the breakaway Georgian regions of South Ossetia and Abkhazia as independent.
In a move that has drawn widespread criticism from Western governments President Dmitry Medvedev announced that he had signed decrees this afternoon.
'I have signed decrees on the recognition by the Russian Federation of the independence of South Ossetia and the independence of Abkhazia,' he said in the announcement.
That was no easy choice to make, but it is the sole chance of saving people's lives,' Mr Medvedev added.
The Russian President blamed Georgia for failing to negotiate a peaceful settlement to the problem and called on other states to follow Russia's example.
He has also ordered the Russian foreign ministry to establish diplomatic ties with the two regions.
The Russian news agency Interfax has reported that the South Ossettian leader Eduard Kokoity has said he will ask Moscow to set up a military base in the region.
The Minister for Foreign Affairs, Micheál Martin, has condemned the decision by Russia to recognise the two regions.
The Minister said: 'This deeply regrettable decision is contrary to the principles of Georgia's sovereignty, independence and territorial integrity.'
'Moreover, it can only complicate the urgent task of finding political solutions to the acute difficulties in the region and to the wider international tensions which have developed over the past weeks.'
NATO condemnation
Russia's move was swiftly condemned by NATO governments.
The US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice described it as 'regrettable'.
In London, the British government said it rejected the decision to recognise the two rebel regions.
'We reject this categorically and reaffirm Georgia's sovereignty and territorial integrity,' a spokeswoman for the government's Foreign Office said.
German chancellor Angela Merkel said the move was 'unacceptable'.
NATO Secretary-General Jaap de Hoop said: 'This is in direct violation of numerous UN Security Council resolutions regarding Georgia's territorial integrity, resolutions that Russia itself has endorsed.'
The Russian president's statement also drew a swift response from the authorities in Tbilisi. Georgia's deputy foreign minister said the move amounts to an annexation by Moscow of Georgian territory.
U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon fears that Russian recognition of Georgian rebel regions may complicate Security Council efforts for a solution, his spokeswoman said.
US President George Bush had earlier called on his Russian counterpart not to recognise the two breakaway regions as independent.
Mr Bush said Georgia's borders must be respected. 'I call on Russia's leadership to meet its commitments and not recognise these separatist regions,' he said.
Georgia's territorial integrity and borders must command the same respect as every other nation's, including Russia's,' he said in a statement from his Texas ranch.
Celebrations
In the two breakaway regions, however, Moscow's move was warmly welcomed.
Residents in Abkhazia took to the streets to celebrate the news, firing into the air, and in the South Ossetian capital of Tskhinvali there were scenes of jubilation.
'We feel happy. We all have tears in our eyes. We feel pride for our people,' said Aida Gabaz, a 38-year-old lawyer in the Abkhaz capital Sukhumi.
Russia and Georgia, which hosts two major energy pipelines, fought a brief war this month after Tbilisi sent troops to try to retake South Ossetia, a pro-Moscow region that threw off Georgian rule in the 1990s.
Russia responded with a massive counter-attack that overwhelmed the Georgian military, and then sent troops into Georgia proper, where some remain.
The push by Russia's parliament to recognise South Ossetia and Abkhazia followed US recognition of Kosovo's independence from Serbia in February over strenuous objection from Moscow.
Russian withdrawal 'inadequate': G7
Moscow has withdrawn most of its forces from central and western Georgia and says those still in place are peacekeepers needed to avert bloodshed and protect the breakaway regions.
But Georgia and Western governments say Moscow has not complied with a French-brokered ceasefire agreement to pull its troops back to lines held before the start of fighting.
'There continues to be a large presence of Russian forces in Georgia,' US Defence Department spokesman Bryan Whitman told reporters. 'It's fair to say that they are still not living up to the terms of the ceasefire agreement.'
Officials from the Group of Seven industrialised nations spoke yesterday and agreed the Russian withdrawal was inadequate, the US State Department said.
Georgia and the West also object to the scale of the Russian-imposed buffer zone adjoining the two rebel regions, which hands Moscow pressure points on key oil and trade routes through Georgia to the Black Sea.
Mr Cheney, who in the past accused Moscow of blackmailing its neighbours, will to go to Georgia in September to show US commitment to the small but vital ally, the White House said. Mr Cheney will also visit Ukraine, Azerbaijan and Italy during the trip.
'The Vice President will be delivering ... the word of America's support, and also consulting on how these leaders in the region see the future playing out,' White House spokesman Tony Fratto told reporters in Texas.
What does it mean to be English?
Being English is about driving in a German car to an Irish pub for a Belgian beer then travelling home grabbing an Indian curry or a Chinese on the way to sit on Swedish furniture and watch American soap shows on a Japane
It dont look like it is over yet Russia could now invade the Ukraine as they are suproting Tbilisi.
Ukraine wary as Russia backs separatists
Wednesday, 27 August 2008 12:01
Ukrainian President Viktor Yushchenko has condemned Russia's 'unacceptable' decision to recognise the Georgian rebel regions of South Ossetia and Abkhazia.
Mr Yushchenko stressed the move threatened security across former Soviet Union states.
He said Ukraine hoped to raise the question of increasing the cost of leasing the Sevastopol base in Ukraine's southern Crimea region to Russia's Black Sea Fleet, a renegotiation Moscow has said would break a 1997 agreement.
We are sorry about this decision, for Ukraine it is unacceptable and therefore we cannot support this position,' Mr Yushchenko told reporters.
'(We need to) raise the question about the lease payment, and new financial conditions because those old conditions were set when there was no market for land deals,' he said.
Earlier, French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner had warned that Russia could have its sights set on Ukraine and Moldova after recognising the Georgian separatists
It is feared Russian troops might target the southern Ukrainian region of Crimea if President Yushchenko continues to openly support Tbilisi in the Georgia-Russia conflict.
Crimea, which is populated mostly by ethnic Russians, is home to the port of Sevastopol where Russia's Black Sea fleet has been based since the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991.
The Molodovan region of Transdniestr, which lies in the east of Ukraine, fought a brief independence war after the collapse of the Soviet Union but is not internationally recognised.
It currently hosts a contingent of Russian troops and a Soviet-era arms dump.
What does it mean to be English?
Being English is about driving in a German car to an Irish pub for a Belgian beer then travelling home grabbing an Indian curry or a Chinese on the way to sit on Swedish furniture and watch American soap shows on a Japane
You really don't get this do you.
As I said before, we are not at school now (or are you still at school?). And there is no need to quote my entire post every time!
NATO cannot use military force on Russia. That would be INSANE and spark a war that would probably kill us all. NATO is a military alliance. Each of the member states agree to militarily support a member nation. If a country comes to NATO in the middle of a war, especially one that it started, against a huge powerful neighbour, with active territorial disputes, NATO will not want, or be able, to get into that fight.
NATO has had more than it can politically manage fighting in Afghanistan and the yanks are still fighting after their own invasion and occupation of Iraq. And these countries have no significant military power.
As you seem to have a playground grasp of international relations, think of it this way.
You are in a gang of friends who will stick together all the time and fight to help each other. Across the playground a little kid is kicking one of the really big kids in the ankle. This really big kid is much bigger than nearly all of your gang and is armed with guns and knives. Finally the little smelly kid pulls out a knife and stabs the big kid in the foot, who then turns round an kicks seven bells of shit out of the little kid and gets him round the neck and takes away his shoes.
The little kid then says "I want to be in your gang! Then this big kid will leave me alone and I want my shoes back!".
What do you do? If you say he can come in, you have to protect the snotty little shit, but he is still fighting the big kid. That means you have to fight the big kid too. Or you could say "Put that little kid down you big bully, and give him back his shoes!" and hope that he does.
But if he doesn't, what are you going to do. If you take him on, you *might* be able to hurt him really badly, but he could kill you and maybe some of your friends. Is it worth it to protect a little shit who brought the trouble on himself?
I know what NATO is. Now if Georgia was in NATO, then Russia would leave it alone!
It would be safe and protected. As the situation is at the moment, Russian troops are/were in sovereign Georgian territory against the DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED GOERGIAN GOVERNMENT'S WISHES
Now, IF Georgia was in NATO, that would not have happened
You realy dont get it do you ilh.
Nicely said Taran couldnt of put it better my self
edited by: cornishrebel2, Aug 28, 2008 - 11:56 PM
What does it mean to be English?
Being English is about driving in a German car to an Irish pub for a Belgian beer then travelling home grabbing an Indian curry or a Chinese on the way to sit on Swedish furniture and watch American soap shows on a Japane
ILH - You have no idea what you are talking about do you.
You see the world through a pin hole with one eye whilst wearing blinkers.
The people who live in the territory that Georgia claims as its own do not want to be part of Georgia, what of their wishes? Those territories have only been part of sovereign (or should that be sovirgin?) Georgian territory for a year, in about 1990.
Prior to that they were territories in the Russian Empire, then an Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic and an Oblast as part of the Soviet Union and then as disputed territories since 1991 after the Georgians failed to incorporate them in the "civil" war of 1991. Not to forget the other autonomous area in the South called Ajaria, which the Georgians have managed to quell and incorporate into Georgia proper.
Georgia is not in NATO, The French and Germans didn't want them until their territorial disputes are sorted. If you don't understand why that is, put your Treaty of Lisbon reading head on and read the posts above. NATO cannot represent Georgia regardless of what Saakashvili wants, until their territorial disputes are settled.
Try to think of NATO as a club, it accepts who it wants into its gang, it is not open to the international public. Georgia's membership is only an issue because the Americans want to station troops and missiles there for their ABM system and to secure the oil pipelines, although this little spat may also have provided yet another benefit to the ruling party in America and Given McCain a boost in the polls.
This smells more and more like a cynical American ploy, manipulating a rash and volatile man like Saakashvili into doing things that will give them (the yanks) a strategic benefit.
American Gains:
It gives McCain a poll boost.
It tipped the balance for the Poles to sign up to the ABM system.
It might well bolster support for current pro-American government in the Ukraine, which has only a tenuous grip on power anyway and is internally riven with factional in-fighting.
It boosted internal support in Georgia for Saakashvili who originally came to power in a coup and who was facing serious internal opposition with riots in Tbilisi on 7th November http://www.brei...icle=1&lst=1
Russsian gains:
Temporarily delaying Gerogian NATO membership.
GEORGIA WAS THE AGGRESSOR, it bombed Tskhinvali without warning on the night of August 7th, timed to start just as the Olympic Games were kicking off, while the 'eyes of the world' were elsewhere.
G7 condemnation was biased - Russia
Friday, 29 August 2008 10:53
A statement from the Group of Seven nations condemning Russia for its actions in Georgia was biased and set out to justify Georgian aggression, Russia has said.
On Wednesday the G7 criticised Moscow's decision to recognise Georgia's breakaway regions of South Ossetia and Abkhazia and 'deplored Russia's excessive use of military force in Georgia and its continued occupation of parts of Georgia'.
'This step is biased and is aimed at justifying the aggressive actions of Georgia,' the Russian foreign ministry said in a statement.
AdvertisementThe G7 statement 'makes baseless assertions about Russia undermining Georgia's territorial integrity', the Russian statement continued.
'It ignores Russia's well-argued stance in favour of the difficult but, under the existing circumstances, the only right decision to recognise South Ossetia's and Abkhazia's independence,' the ministry said.
The crisis flared earlier this month when Georgian forces tried to retake the separatist province of South Ossetia and Russia launched an overwhelming counter-attack.
Russian forces swept the Georgian army out of the rebel region and are still occupying some areas of Georgia proper.
On Tuesday Moscow announced that it was recognising South Ossetia and another pro-Moscow breakaway region, Abkhazia, as independent states.
Moscow has defied pressure from the US and European powers to pull all of its troops out of Georgia.
The Foreign Ministry said Russia had implemented in full a French-brokered ceasefire deal with Georgia.
'Russian troops have been pulled back,' it said. 'In accordance with this plan, some Russian peacekeepers remain deployed in a security zone neighbouring South Ossetia.'
What does it mean to be English?
Being English is about driving in a German car to an Irish pub for a Belgian beer then travelling home grabbing an Indian curry or a Chinese on the way to sit on Swedish furniture and watch American soap shows on a Japane
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