Is a 'sockpuppet' like one of those inflatable . . . aah. . . paramours, allegedly favoured by lonely matelots and matelottes (or am I getting confused by a near homophone?).
Certainly, s/he has an inflated view of her/him/it-self!
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KS: selven an Furf Screfys Savonek? -- Ya, hep wow!
My reasons for starting this thread were nothing to do with bitchiness, nastiness or pettiness but everything to do with patterns and anomalies.
Nicholas Williams' views - which I posted at the start of this thread - are not those which one expects to find among leading Cornish language activists, who display a strong tendency towards democratic and republican views. The overlap between leading members of Kowethas and Mebyon Kernow is and always has been considerable, as anyone who has studied An Gannas and Cornish Nation will realise.
Royalist, Unionist and anti-home rule views in the Cornish language movement are, on the other hand, very uncommon and give rise to questions of loyalty.
The profiles of those associated with Dr Williams are also remarkable, sufficiently so as to have given rise to a certain amount of discussion here and elsewhere.
The British government has engaged in the infiltration of political and language organisations in order to gather intelligence and to undermine autonomist movements in Ireland, Scotland, Wales and the Isle of Man. It would be naive to believe that the same tactics are not being employed in Cornwall.
What does that mean? Make your charges or shut up, instead of muttering darkly about sinister characters that you allege to have seen creeping in dark corners. A bit rich from a sockpuppet I think.
The problem stems not from agitation by external agents, but from the rash actions of 1986 that split an already strained movement. The project to modify the orthography was needed, but the radical changes to style and phonology went way too far and were implemented wholesale far too rapidly and caused a schism in the movement. This resulted in KK, an orthography that didn't look like or sound like any Cornish previously seen. The disaster was entirely self inflicted and avoidable.
That is why a lot of us could not, cannot and will not accept KK. Even if Ken's phonology were somehow shown to be anything more than guesswork, the style of KK was, to many eyes, repellent and alien.
Obviously some others don't know or don't care about this or I would not have been taken to task about my previous subjective comments on aesthetics. However I am not alone in thinking this.
What the hell has that got to do with the language? Very few people in the movement have those opinions. But so what if they do. If they have an academic contribution to make then it doesn't matter if their politics are to the right of Attilla the Hun, and I'm not suggesting Nicholas Williams is a fascist either, I have no idea of his political leanings and less inclination to find out as it is irrelevant to the language. Political affiliation has no impact on support for a particular othography.
Then what exactly were you trying to accomplish with your "very first post". If you want to make some specific allegations then come out with them. Otherwise it simply smells like you were chucking some ordure about hoping some would stick. This amounts to little more than a character assassination attempt on Nicholas Williams and I think Verity may well have hit the nail on the head. Save your energy and go back to your sock draw. This thread is even more worthless than most.
Every person, no matter who they may be, are entitled to their own views on the world, royalty, etc., etc. I've already said that I don't agree with NJAW's views on royalty but he is entitled to them and it has nothing whatsoever to do with the language. And nothing to do with Keith, Penny or the other character assassins.
I only met Keith once. At the first Tremough conference. I was at a break-out group discussion, chaired by Bernard Deacon, in which Bernard allowed a round the table airing of views, 3 minutes each and no interruptions. As soon as non-KK people began to speak, Bailey was in there, interrupting, ignoring the rule laid down by Bernard and to which everyone else adhered. Even Paul Dunbar, who was sitting on Keith's left. He interrupted me every five words then, when he did it to Merfyn Phillips, he got the biggest verbal blast you can imagine, for his sheer rudeness and ignorance.
I didn't really meet him as such at the second Tremough conference but he was there. We were all in the bar area and, if I remmeber rightly, I was talking to John Parker, Nicholas Williams and Lawrie Climo. I'd already spotted Bailey creeping around listening in to other group conversations, then he sidled over to ours. I just stopped talking, gave him a withering stare and he sidled off.
This is almost all entirely subjective again, Taran, despite your attempts to make it sound factual. I think you might at least prefix it with 'in my opinion', because it is, of course, nothing more than that - the proof being the fact that 'a lot of us' hold a very different opinion.
When you present your opinion as fact it would be more plausible if you offered some evidence. For example, what evidence is there that the changes of 1986 were implemented 'far too rapidly'? Or that Cornish users at the time thought that this was the case? Or that they thought the changes were 'radical'? Users did complain - in writing - but do you know what they complained about?
"Rash, radical, way too far, implemented wholesale, far too rapidly, didn't look like any Cornish, didn't sound like any Cornish, disaster, guesswork, repellent, alien", you say.
Not only do I not agree with the opinions expressed in the first paragraph, but I could easily argue the opposite - and I'd cite written evidence from the period, and compare texts to see if KK looks like any Cornish previously seen, and explore to what extent any proposed phonology for Cornish, not just KK, can only be guesswork. I might have a problem with countering the notion that KK is "an orthography that didn't ... sound like any Cornish previously seen" though, because I don't know what it means.
Just think, Taran, in all these years you've been putting your energy into seething at how you "cannot and will not accept KK" you could have ignored it and invested that energy into attaining fluency in UC or UCR. What a wasted opportunity.
The changes in 1987 were implenented a little too rapidly. This was because it was like a dam bursting, people couldn't change fast enough and Ken and others were swamped with demands for material and resources. This came as a bit of a surprise, because before the decision had been made there was a lot of apprehension over whether the change could be carried out smoothly and effectively. However once the decision had been taken, nearly everyone (dinosaurs excepted) immediately got behind it.
It was an attempt to recreate the sounds of Middle Cornish as far as they could be reconstructed from the texts. Of course it "didn't sound like any Cornish (you'd heard)" because you'd have to have been several hundred years old to have heard MC, and at least 160 to have heard even the last faltering phrases of traditional Cornish. And it didn't look like anything you'd seen before because guess what, it wasn't designed to. It was designed for the needs of 21st century learners, not C14-17 natives.
Seventy Percent of "competent & frequent" Cornish users prefer to write KK! (MAGA/CLP Survey)
Because he wrote that he was so horrified by what he found in Kemmyn that he gave up the language in disgust for twenty years. Twenty years during which he could have ignored Kemmyn and concentrated on working in and with UC, and subsequently UCR.
He has ever since been thinking "I'll start learning Cornish next week". Under those conditions, I'd say it's impossible for him to have attained fluency, but I'll be ecstatic if he proves me wrong.
Twenty years of disgust are a wasted opportunity, especially when there are alternatives available (UC, UCR, LC - how many options does anyone want?).
Those of us that actually care about reviving the language and getting people speaking it and using it instead of arguing about it persevered instead of giving up in disgust.
We either carried on with UC/UCR or switched. And when we switched we soon discovered that Kemmyn didn't look odd, didn't look alien, didn't look as if a komputer had konkokted it, didn't look ugly...in fact, it just looked like normal, everyday Cornish.
So it's OK for you to leap to massive assumptions leading to sheer fiction, then? You have no idea of Taran's identity, and I can only guess but that he gave up the language for 20 years doesn't mean to say that he was not a fluent speaker before that, and may still be. I'm aware of fluent speakers who gave up on the language back then. However, if Taran is who I think he might be, then he is back and putting in a lot of constructive contribution.
Oh, Keith - a bursting dam invariably leads to disaster. Nice analogy.
And it was a disaster for the Revival, caused by George and his fellow plotters!
At last, an open (if accidental) admission from a chronic liar! As the old proverb has it, 'out of the mouths of babes and fools shall we learn wisdom'.
Nice own goal, Keith.
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KS: selven an Furf Screfys Savonek? -- Ya, hep wow!
The reason you can only guess, "marhak", is because you don't read the posts.
You don't read the posts, "marhak".
He wrote that before he gave up in disgust for 20 years he had just bought Holyewgh an Lergh "to get me kick started". So he wasn't fluent at that point.
And then he wrote that "within a few days" he gave up in disgust. So he wasn't fluent at that point either.
So you can easily determine that he wasn't fluent before he gave up for 20 years. You just need to read the posts. That's all.
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