Steve (Goky) asks on another thread why we fighting a 20-year old argument. I'll remind him just who started this "who are the splitters" thread. The KK hardcore raised it, we're answering. They have their view of events and we have ours.
Why have they raised it? Because they oppose the SWF and we don't. We want to see a united language movement, and they don't.
Yes, it's all pretty pointless but when they start flinging accusations ("AT were the splitters")we have to answer them.
Marhak says that he would like to see a united language movement, getting behind the SWF. So would I and I do believe him.
The transparent pointlessness of this whole thread is like watching the last eight Mohicans slowly slugging it out to the death with their tomahawks, because they can’t agree on the appropriate tribal hairstyle. For goodness’ sake, do you not realise how ridiculous you make yourselves (and those of us with Cornish affiliations and aspirations) look?
Is it not now time to bury the hatchet and tomahawk? There are people here with precious knowledge and naturally limited energies. Do not dissipate those energies and waste precious time in pointless argument. Produce clear materials in SWF – give one direction for all to follow.
A strong linguistic core will also be very beneficial in helping to reach satisfactory political solutions for Kernow.
Sorry to puncture your balloon of hopefulness, Jennifer - but how on earth do you expect anyone to "produce clear materials in SWF" when the SWF is about as clear as the proverbial mud? Not only is it hideously complicated (in an attempt to accommodate two widely differing periods of Cornish in one orthography) but it completely cops-out on pronunciation. It's unteachable.
From what I hear no fluent and competent speakers intend using it. It has attracted criticism from all sides, including all the non-Cornish speaking wiseacres posing as 'experts' on the language. The Spellyans group are intent on 'reforming' the SWF until no KK user will look at it.
Morvran's opinion is that the SWF is not merely linguistically inferior, but the process which created it has widened splits in the language rather than healed them.
I believe that he is right - it's a failure whichever way you look at it. Who wants to back a failure?
Now that has to be pure mythology, Penny. Of the nine AHG members who worked together and formed the SWF, at least six are fluent speakers of Cornish. Is it not true that your "fluent and competent speakers" are all KK users? But remember, four of those fluent and competent AHG members were Kemmyn users. So what you claim cannot be true.
This type of negative propaganda will kill the language.
You're twisting it again Marghek. The AHG members were from the Kesva/Kowethas Loveday Jenkin, Pol Hodge, Jory Ansell, from AT Rod Lyon, Andrew (dehyphenated) Climo, from the Cussel Bernard Deacon.
No one else was a member. The others were there to facilitate and keep a detailed and impartial record of what was agreed and write it all up. If that wasn't the case, then once again the Process has deviated from its advertised programme. That is from what everyone was supposed to have accepted.
Btw the whole process of selecting AHG members was rather hazy, and cooked up between the partnership office and the Secretaries of the different groups. I'm unclear if they were supposed to be delegates working to a mandate, or individuals using their own personal judgement.
Seventy Percent of "competent & frequent" Cornish users prefer to write KK! (MAGA/CLP Survey)
No, Keith - YOU are twisting it. Remember, I was on the Management Group that appointed them all, along with Loveday and Bernard. But, of course, you won't remember, will you? You were the person who wanted nothing to do with the AHG process so, of course, you are in just the position to know differently (I don't think). If you are simply out to discredit me, then you have really dredged the barrel this time, shown yourself up for what you are, and dropped an almighty bollock into the bargain.
AHG as follows:
KK - George Ansell, Pol Hodge, Polin Pris (I just might be wrong about her - it was either her or Maureen), Loveday Jenkin, Albert Bock
UC- Rod Lyon
UCR Andrew Climo
RLC - Bernard Deacon, Mina Dresser
ALL of them full participants in the debate. The only person who was not to participate, but to keep record was Ben Bruch (also KK, by the way). And then, of course, the Arbitor/Chairman Dr Trond Trosterud.
I am sure that the AHG members themselves will confirm this. As will Jenefer. As will Trond. As will Albert and Ben. I don't have to defend myself on this - the records are there for all to see.
Each language group made proposed nominations, supposed to be two for your own orthography and one each for the others. AT and the Cussel adhered to that but, of course, both the Kesva and the Cowethas had to come in separately with FOUR nominations each for their own groups. (It was also supposed to be by orthography, not by organisation but, of course, when did those two groups ever play straight?)
Those, Keith, are facts. Facts that remain in the records and minutes held by Jenefer.
MASSIVE own goal equal to striking a penalty into your own net (are there any lengths these people won't go to? Christ, Keith, your tactics are so ENGLISH).
I've been waiting patiently for this. Now people can see, once and for all, exactly who has been doing all the lying on this forum.
Even if the four KK users on the AHG intend to give up using KK and adopt the SWF (which I am informed is not the case!) that still leaves the KK users who were not brainwashed into believing that something had to be decided at Treyarnon.
I can quite understand that you wish the SWF to continue to be pushed by the Partnership (even if competent and fluent Cornish users refuse to use it) because this holds out hope to you that it will help to kill KK.
It's a vain hope, I fear.
A pe an yeth ledhys y fia an re na woer hy hewsel mes a bes yn unn flowsa a-dro dhedhi yn Sowsnek (heb gul vri an bodh po an skians a Gernewegoryon) a via kablus.
As a one-time member of the Management Group, Craig, how do you feel about people who don't speak Cornish making decisions which affect Cornish speakers?
I'm not interested in what you might be informed, on the grounds that it is unconfirmed as per "Pieter's" rules. And did not the Cowethas vote to support the SWF (or am I misinformed?).
It is not about the killing of KK and it didn't need me to give it a push - it was doing a good job of slow suicide on its own. Like it or not, only the SWF will be taught to children who will be the future of Cornish. Within a decade or two, KK will be dead. As will UC, UCR and RLC.
You are now the minority and a tiny minority at that. Most Cornish users wanted an end to the division and voted to accept the SWF. What we have as the SWF is not what I wanted to see but that was irrelevant. Flawed as it is, it results from a consensus view.
Keith still nastily refers to one of Cornwall's greatest ever scholars as a "dinosaur". I'm sorry, but you intransigents are now the dinosaurs. The language has moved on and left you behind because you didn't want to move with it (exactly the same accusation you people levelled at the UC and RLC users who would not go with KK - funny how "what goes around comes around" but it sure does).
Cornish does not belong to a select band of people who profess themselves to be fluent. I am a speaker, by the way. Not particularly fluent and way out of practice while waiting for a SWF result and writing 135,000 word novels, but a speaker nonetheless, and writer of Cornish, too - I do that rather better - you have time to think). I would have little chance in a Cornish conversation with someone as fluent as, say, Rod Lyon but I'm honest enough to admit it. Some of you specialise in being fluent speakers. I specialise in the historical side of the language, place-names in particular. That doesn't make me in any way inferior, although you seem to imply that it does. Fluency is one aspect; knowledge and research is another which is no less valuable. I have as much right to be part of this process as anyone (which is precisely why I have been part of it). Despite Goky's silly view from 3,000 miles away, Agan Tavas does contain fluent speakers of Cornish. Several, in fact. None of them opposed my nomination and election as its Chairman - in fact, I think the only person in Agan Tavas who didn't really want me as Chairman was me.
The Cornish language belongs to the Cornish people. Equally. It belongs to the fluent, and it belongs just as much to those who want to start learning it - the same position you were once in.
The structure of the Partnership reflects that overall ownership.
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