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	Single Written Form for Cornish Language
FlammNew	Posted: 10.10.2006, 09:12
registered: Mar. 2006 Posts: 1814 Status: offline last visit: 27.03.08	Spot on, angofbew. I think that the point of a phonemic SWF is that there would a recommended pronounciation which would match the spelling, but that if people want to pronounce it as U, KK, or UCR then they would be perfectly free to do so. Every language with a phonemic spelling system has regional accents and variations, so surely a phonemic Kernewek can accommodate them too?


lyskerrys	Posted: 11.11.2006, 10:38
registered: Apr. 2005 Posts: 928 Status: offline last visit: 17.02.07	Just received the report from the last Tremough conference, and got the following impressions: 1) Rod Lyon was supposed to be speaking for Unified but seemed to be putting it down. 2) Ken George was positive and forward looking and open to pronunciation variations and suggestions for improvement. 3) Nicholas Williams says we can ONLY spell things the way they are in the texts. (Hardly handy for neologisms!) 4) Bernard Deacon was positive about Modern but, I suspect, knows that it isn't likely to be chosen as the SWF. Anyone else got any views on the report?


porthia1947	Posted: 11.11.2006, 17:33
registered: Apr. 2005 Posts: 694 Status: offline last visit: 14.05.08	There's also a summary of the Tremough September conference written by Jenefer Lowe in the current edition of the MK publication Kenedhel Gernewek/Cornish Nation. If you want to get hold of this publication contact details are on www.mebyonkernow.org/Public/Stories/96-1.shtml Further information on the Cornish Language Partnership can be obtained from the: Cornish Language Office, Dalvenie House, County Hall, Truro TR1 3AY or email cornishlanguage@cornwall.gov.uk Sorry if these details have been listed elswhere, but it won't hurt to publicise them again.


CJenkin	Posted: 12.11.2006, 20:32
registered: Jan. 2005 Posts: 652 Status: offline last visit: 15.05.08	Quote 4) Bernard Deacon was positive about Modern but, I suspect, knows that it isn't likely to be chosen as the SWF. Bernard was challenged on Lhuyd describing Late Cornish as 'corrupt' - his response though trying to be positive was hardly accurate. He said oh corrupt wasn't used in the modern context of 'decay' but of 'changing'. And the language was only changing. 18th century dictionaries clearly show the meaning of corrupt at the time Lhuyd was writing. Shakespeare frequently uses corrupt meaning decay. There is no question what Lhuyd was referring to at the time. NJ Williams gave a devastating analysis of why Late Cornish was inpractical for the SWF not least that there isn't a fixed standard at present. His call to stick to the texts might be more appreciated if he did it himself. Note that both <eu> and <ue> appear in the texts. The examples that he used in his talk all used <eu> yet he prefers <ue> presumably because KK has standardised on <eu>. This kind of lack of public relations demonstrates how far off Williams is of convincing ordinary Cornish speakers of his arguments.


FlammNew	Posted: 12.11.2006, 22:59
registered: Mar. 2006 Posts: 1814 Status: offline last visit: 27.03.08	So Late is no good, Williams' arguments for UCR are inconsistent, Unified is known to be flawed - only leaves one choice, doesn't it?


GoghiennVarow	Posted: 13.11.2006, 12:45
registered: Sep. 2006 Posts: 164 Status: offline last visit: 25.02.08	No fixed spelling?


CJenkin	Posted: 13.11.2006, 14:21
registered: Jan. 2005 Posts: 652 Status: offline last visit: 15.05.08	Quote So Late is no good, Williams' arguments for UCR are inconsistent, Unified is known to be flawed - only leaves one choice, doesn't it? There would seem to be only one logical conclusion that can be made that SWF should go with the majority of common usage at the moment i.e. Kernewek Kemmyn as recommended by the Cornish Language Board.


lyskerrys	Posted: 14.11.2006, 14:33
registered: Apr. 2005 Posts: 928 Status: offline last visit: 17.02.07	Elizabeth Stewart has sent out information for people who want to apply for a place on "the Linguistic Working Group who will work alongside the Commission in the process to decide upon a Single Written Form of Cornish for use in education and public life." QuoteThe Linguistic Working Group will form one part of the process towards agreement on what form of Cornish will be used for education and public life. It will complement the Commission which will be charged with reviewing the evidence and making the final recommendation. The Terms of reference for the Linguistic Group show that it will be responsible for reviewing the linguistic evidence and working on areas of convergence and divergence. It will also respond to requests from the Commission for detailed information or clarification. The group may also make its own recommendations to the Commission based on the work it undertakes. The group needs to encompass a wide range of skills and experience. The person specification lays down the range against which the members will be chosen. It is the total skill base that will define the choice of individual members who will undoubtedly be complementary to each other. No-one member is expected to possess all the necessary skills and experience required. Applications should address the skills base and also explain why the applicant is interested in taking part and what they feel they personally would bring to the group. Applications should be made in writing to the Cornish Language Office, Dalvenie House, County Hall, Truro, TR1 3AY to arrive by 1 December 06. Decisions on the membership will be made by the Cornish Language Partnership. Those not selected will still be able to feed into the process and may well be consulted by the group when carrying out its work.


GoghiennVarow	Posted: 15.12.2006, 11:28
registered: Sep. 2006 Posts: 164 Status: offline last visit: 25.02.08	Progress report on the SWF... nice shiny orange logo... bit Noddy and Big-Ears... http://www.cornish-language.org/English/ViewNews.asp?view=194


FlammNew	Posted: 15.12.2006, 12:34
registered: Mar. 2006 Posts: 1814 Status: offline last visit: 27.03.08	I read the progress report and came to the conclusion that it contained almost nothing of substance about the progress towards a standard written form. Time is ticking away--what progress has actually been made since we met at Tremough?


GoghiennVarow	Posted: 06.01.2007, 13:56
registered: Sep. 2006 Posts: 164 Status: offline last visit: 25.02.08	Very funny letter from Ray Edwards about 'MAGA' - the Cornish Language Partnership in this month's 'An Gannas'. Apparently after four consecutive meetings they still couldn't decide between 'Keskowethyans' and 'Kescowethyans' as the correct spelling for 'Partnership' and have therefore left it in English! Oh I laugh until I weep....


Hunlef	Posted: 06.01.2007, 14:11
registered: Jul. 2006 Posts: 1214 Status: offline last visit: 12.05.08	Quote Very funny letter from Ray Edwards about 'MAGA' - the Cornish Language Partnership in this month's 'An Gannas'. Apparently after four consecutive meetings they still couldn't decide between 'Keskowethyans' and 'Kescowethyans' as the correct spelling for 'Partnership' and have therefore left it in English! A good reason why qualified, independent linguistic experts should be involved in this process right this minute! I suggested this on this thread ages ago and still nothing has been done. For God's sake Partnership - Hurry up and get the job done before the people throw you out!


TGG	Posted: 06.01.2007, 15:05
registered: Aug. 2005 Posts: 948 Status: offline last visit: 16.05.08	"Hunlef - Posted: Jan 06, 2007 - 02:11 PM " A good reason why qualified, independent linguistic experts should be involved in this process right this minute! I suggested this on this thread ages ago and still nothing has been done. For God's sake Partnership - Hurry up and get the job done before the people throw you out! 110% behind that sentiment! I seem to remember something way way back about Unified being agreed for formal usage. Perhaps that was just within Gorseth Kernow? Problem is - as it will always be! - a fear of setting some form of precedent over future usage. Therefore the only compromise is to use English. TGG


lyskerrys	Posted: 06.01.2007, 16:10
registered: Apr. 2005 Posts: 928 Status: offline last visit: 17.02.07	Only within the Gorseth, TGG. I would like to see them pledge to use the agreed SWF, whatever that might be. When KK was proposed, most of the fluent users of the time agreed that it was an improvement and changed over to use it. Why suddenly it shouldn't be an acceptable form just because of a small minority of complainants is beyond be.


Hunlef	Posted: 06.01.2007, 16:21
registered: Jul. 2006 Posts: 1214 Status: offline last visit: 12.05.08	Quote Why suddenly it shouldn't be an acceptable form just because of a small minority of complainants is beyond be. Because it doesn't have the backing of independent, qualified linguistic academics. If it is as good as all you language train-spotters say it is, put it on the table for independent scrutiny and analysis. If it really is the best, that will get evrybody on board. I think that is logical and would be an effective way round what seems to be an interminable problem. Get on with it!

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