V Tree
A large V shaped pine tree on the Antony estate near Torpoint...
Seaton Beach
Located at the bottom of the Seaton River valley this sand and shingle beach is popular with families. At low tide it joins up with Downderry around the headland...
Seaton River
The Seaton River as it flows out of the valley and through the village of the same name...
Portwrinkle
Looking down over the one time fishing village of Portwrinkle. In the background is the start of Whitsand Bay as it stretches 4 miles down the Rame Peninsula...
Have I missed something somewhere, or has some postings to this thread been deleted? I cannot see what your reply is responding too
On the Poll front, I have been informed that it has been rigged??? I am still waiting for Admin to respond to my query [from backalong] on the legitimacy of any poll - if that allegation is true?
I was responding to Flamm (june 12), though I'm at a loss as to why my response has appeared twice!!! I forgot to tell Flamm that I'm very partial to marshmallows, so would be grateful if he'd chuck a few my way. Yum.
In retrospect, my response reads a bit too harsh (and contains my usual typos). What I was trying to put over was that there have been events and statements in the past that must not be repeated if we're going to get anywhere. The trouble is that to put that over with examples looks as if I'm having a go, rather than simply reporting facts.
How do you rig an independent poll that everyone can freely take part in?
I know that there are people with mega-egos on all sides of the debate, and these are the ones we need to sideline, however large their past contributions, in order for the move towards an SWF to continue smoothly. I think it's important to remember that the language is larger than the egos who are sticking their oars in at the moment, and we shouldn't let ourselves get too downhearted about things but make decisions for the future of the language itself.
As for the poll, before it was rigged, KK was well in front; since it was rigged, the results are meaningless. Have you noticed the number of votes? Over 10,000, when few of the other polls even make it to 200!
I thought we didn't want a rigged poll? The problem with a poll comes from people lobbying friends and neighbours with no knowledge of Cornish to register to vote even when they have no interest in it - that would lead to the best lobbying team winning. People like George Ansell and other luminaries in Cornish-speaking circles will have a good feel for how many users there are of each system, so I don't see what's wrong with letting them make a decision based on numbers without having to go to a vote.
Grassa dhys, Flamm. Tonight's meeting is one I cannot attend, professional matters getting in the way (sometimes I wish I could split myself in two - many other people also wish to do something like that to me!!). However, I'll get a few reports of how it went by tomorrow.
I do hope that a consensus based upon common sense will emerge so that we can move on. The language can't afford to stagnate now, especially at the stage we've reached.
If you're going, then good luck with it.
Oll an gwella (good spelling that - matches all four current versions),
Marhak
Weeeellll, the current timeline is for there to be a decision by May 2007, so that Cornish can start to be introduced as part of the "Language Ladder" initiative. Other than that there was a load of prevarication and modern management / council waffle and a process towards a SWF that is IMO going to eat up much of the budget that could have been better spent on promoting the language. There will be another conference in Tremough this September.
The deadline is IMO far too long but it is at least there, if it hadn't been I think I'd have abandoned the language movement as a lost cause and stuck with KK whatever the outcome. I still really want to shake people and shout "Get a move on!"
Was really sorry not to be there but currently have both professional and medical demands which are a pain in the arse (but medical probs not centred there).
Yeah, it does seem like a long time but sometimes it's worth taking the time to achieve the right result. It may well use up much needed money but only in th short term - if all goes well, it will lead to much, much more money.
For my part the sooner a SWF is decided upon, the better - then we can all return to the sort of across-the-board cooperation that existed before 1986, and put teams together to rewrite and re-present all Cornish publications, and compose new ones. Let's really go for bright and attractive presentation. We are going to need, above all else, simple text books for kids, graded in detail to match years of learning. AND a Cornish-based publisher, printer and distributor to tackle it all.
Once we get these initial concerns sorted out, then we all have one hell of a busy and bloody worthwhile future.
At long last, they seem to have accepted that which John A and myself have been pressing for for a very long time - standardisation of the language will most definitely take place as a priority. Hopefully, that process should be complete by next May so that a standard form can be introduced into schools the following September. All that remains is for the three factions to accept the recommendations of independent linguistic experts. We had a public acknowledgement that the Panel would follow any such recommendations. At long last the squabbling, at least so far as the language is concerned, seems to be over.
Nigel Hicks. Typical of JA's lot to try to grab personal glory. Strange though that at the meeting NH just banged on about the Census 2011 and EU issues and ignored the language completely.
But I digress. While I am obviously happy that something will come of this, I am concerned at how much this long-winded consultation process will cost and how little of the £600k pot will be left to actually promote the language afterwards. If as seems likely from the roadmap described yesterday, we end up with a hotch-potch mixture of the existing forms, we will wind up, only SIX MONTHS before rolling out Cornish teaching in schools, trying to promote a version of Cornish with no dictionaries, no publications, no users and no teachers. Not a very good position to be in.
PS - Marhak, glad to hear that the...err...seat of your medical problems lies elsewhere!
Nice crack, Flamm (pun intended)! Yes, the outcome is good - looks like bridges are at last being built. As I said in my last spiel, we have no choice but to be patient. Much of the £600k will be used up but the emergence of a SWF, which will let the language loose upon education, will attract a hell of a lot more than that (though we'll have to push hard for it). How much did Ulster-Scots originally get? £2.7 million?
A technical question for the KK users. I note that in the KK system, "evening" is "gorthugher". I can't find a "gh" in any written source - they're all "w", sometimes "wh" (e.g. gorthewer; guthewhar, etc). Any idea why "gh" was decided upon? (I don't have an Eng-Breton dictionary, so unable to find a clue in that direction).
I think the issue is wider and Hicks and Angarrack are right in what they say.
Having a language and a Cornish tick box on the census form in 2010 is vitally important and the language forum should be pressing for this as a part of recognition and acceptance that we exisit.
We are given crumbs and seem to be happy in starvation.
Yeah but the crumbs multiply until we end up with the whole loaf. For years beyond recall, London has played the "ignore them (or give them crumbs) and they'll go away" game. The problem for them is that we don't go away. Eventually they have to act just to get us off their backs. It takes patience but it works a treat.
Remember this, Joe - it took fifteen years to persuade the buggers to include Cornish on the European Charter for Regional and Minority Languages. We got there and every success we grind out of them makes their own "everyone shall be English. Resistance is futile" case that much weaker. Come to think of it, aren't they like the Borg: "You will be assimilated. We will add your distinctiveness to our own. Resistance is futile." The fuller quote is even more apt, but I can't remember it all - will have to watch First Contact again.
In the VC there is "brech" for arm; in KK "ch" is used to represent English "ch" so maybe KG chose "gh" as a reasonable replacement for OC "ch". Better ask him for the precise reason.
To my mind it's irrelevant anyway, as I've said before, modern English pronounciation varies far more widely across the UK than the various forms of Kernewek do from each other, and English spelling is often way off the mark, so provided a spelling system for Kernewek isn't too far from the original texts, who cares how it's spelt? We can keep Unys and Kemmyn pronounciations as dialects if that's what people want, I don't care - I just want a (preferably phonemic) system to be agreed on ASAP!
I think we all want an agreed system ASAP, Flamm, and the signs are good. Cornish was bound to have had regional dialects (just as it used to be the case that, from a Cornishman's English speech, you could tell St Ives man from a Santuster from a Porthleven man from a 'druth man etc.).
I've always used Lhuyd as a guide to pronunciation (being down here in Penwith). I highly recommend Dick Gendall's "The Pronunciation of Cornish", which is an analysis and breakdown of Lhuyd's information.
I don't think we'll end up with a "hotch-potch" mix of current systems but (I hope) a well thought out compromise between the current systems. Whatever - I've not felt as optimistic about the language for years. Chin up, ole pard.
Police name death crash cyclist
Police in Cornwall name a cyclist who died after being badly injured in a collision on Sunday.
Training to distribute aid boxes
Cornish-based charity Shelterbox trains Burmese workers to distribute its boxes of aid for cyclone victims.
Pony pair graze conservation area
Two Exmoor ponies are installed at a Cornish conservation area to help manage the site by grazing.
Gyrocopter pilot had heart attack
A gyrocopter pilot whose machine crashed on the way to Bodmin Airfield died from natural causes.
Sanctuary man jailed over abuse
The former owner of a donkey sanctuary is jailed for five years for sexually abusing young girls.
Lorry stuck between buildings
A wrong turn ends in embarrassment for a lorry driver as his vehicle gets stuck in a Cornish village.
Police save harbour jump suspect
A man attempting to run from police is rescued by them after jumping into a harbour in Cornwall.
Chapel to host animal blessing service
An animal blessing service is to be held at Tredarvo chapel on Sunday at 3pm, conducted by reverend William Ireland. Anybody is welcome to attend the hour-long service with their pets, and this will be followed by refreshments. Mr Ireland said: "I ...
The problem with a poll comes from people lobbying friends and neighbours with no knowledge of Cornish to register to vote even when they have no interest in it - that would lead to the best lobbying team winning. People like George Ansell and other luminaries in Cornish-speaking circles will have a good feel for how many users there are of each system, so I don't see what's wrong with letting them make a decision based on numbers without having to go to a vote.
