V Tree
A large V shaped pine tree on the Antony estate near Torpoint...
Seaton Beach
Located at the bottom of the Seaton River valley this sand and shingle beach is popular with families. At low tide it joins up with Downderry around the headland...
Seaton River
The Seaton River as it flows out of the valley and through the village of the same name...
Portwrinkle
Looking down over the one time fishing village of Portwrinkle. In the background is the start of Whitsand Bay as it stretches 4 miles down the Rame Peninsula...
What is the current status of the Single Written Form for Cornish question? I read that the Modern and Unified camps had called for an "independent advisory panel" to referee (Kemmyn conspicuously absent).
Was the September 17 conference at Tremough supposed to resolve the various issues dividing the 3 groups? Unless I have been missing something there seems to be a deafening silence on this.
I think that quite a few potential learners are waiting to see what happens on the spelling issue before they commit themselves.
Can anyone answer these questions? Thanks
There isn't even a single written form of English on this website - spelling is left very much to the individual's taste :mrgreen: (while I'm here, "your" instead of "you're" is an all-time pet hate of mine....puts me right off my Tesco's Industrial Grade 2-in-1 export lager & drain de-sludger!)
The three sides are now seeking expert advice to standardise the language into a written form.
However, at present Kerrier are using Kemmyn and Carrick using Unified for their road signs.
Kemmyn spokespeople were against the use of experts and wanted to use their system by force majeure claiming that more people spoke their version. This may be true, but common use does not mean correct use.
Most countries today have language standardisation committees to ensure that new words are introduced correctly.
Nice one strop. And what about the People's Popular Front of UCR? He's over there...
The current status is that the vast majority of "grass roots" speakers simply want a decision to be made so that they can start to support the officially-promoted version. The people at the "top" are the ones who are prevaricating, either because they don't want to offend people by making a choice their friends won't like, or worse because they are worried that their personal favourite isn't the one which is chosen, which is tragic. I think one of the forms is the common-sense one to use, but I'd probably learn a different one if the one I learnt isn't picked.
At the conference at Tremough (which I attended) all but a handful of people were (a) in favour of a decision and (b) said that they'd accept it even if it wasn't their first choice. So we're vastly in favour of a decision - so why isn't one forthcoming? The delay is putting me and many others off bothering to speak or write yn Kernewek.
I don't personally think that we need external experts to advise us as the arguments are all well known, and no expert will be unbiased. What we need is the panel driving this to actually have the guts to make a decision, and to do so ASAP. The language itself is the only thing that will suffer if we delay.
I think a few people on this forum have said they would try and get some response from the great and the good of the Tremough conference including me and I've got no response yet. Maybe the feedback document is still doing the rounds in order to get a consensus before it's provided for viewing by us mere cogs on the wheels of the machine. What's happening pards?
More seriously I would prefer them to take their time and get as many "leaders" of the different groups agreeing than for us to have a few more years of uncertainty.
Morgarrow, we've had enough years of uncertainty already, and enough time for the feedback document to have done the rounds. The conference was eight weeks ago, and we knew all the arguments then. We haven't even heard what path they intend to follow to arrive at a decision! How long do they want for FSM's sake? I want to see some decisiveness!
Thanks for the replies. I had surmised that there was some intransigence on the part of the Kemmyn "camp". The premature use of road signs in one or another form only exacerbates the situation. As far as the Tremough conference remaining silent on things, I would state that "No news is bad news". As was stated, what is needed is for the infighting to cease and for patriotic Cornish language revivalists to cooperate on the task of restoring the tongue even if it means their choice is not selected.
I personally would like to learn Cornish but watching this makes me wonder if it is even worth it. At the risk of alienating some, I would like to make a few observations.
I have studied other Celtic languages and I think Modern Cornish can be likened to Manx with its English-based orthography. Unified seems to be mired in the past, thus the need for UCR, and Kemmyn seems as if it was too hastily adopted by people overly impressed with computer technology without fully understanding it.
These are just the impersonal observations of a U.S. resident who would sincerely like to see Cornish revived. These comments are not offered to start a flame war on this site, I would just appreciate some feedback on my thoughts.
At least the Tremough conference seems to have gone better than the meeting I attended in 1981 to discuss who was going to get the best seats at the regular Yeth an Weryn in the Basset Arms at Pool- I did a quick sketch of events (sent sketch plus audio tape to Packet Newspapers who ignorant of Cornish called them Welsh rioters on the front page the following week):-
Mrs Gee for the Moderns on foot in front of gate swinging axe and Mr Lew of the Unifieds other side of gate with top hat and dag shouting "Plema gwythyas cres?" (when you want one?)
Some feedback on your thoughts - Firstly the impression outside of Cornwall is sometimes that the use of kemmyn is not popular. This is far from the truth the vast majority of Cornish speakers use kemmyn. I don't think there is any real intransigence going on but the organisations that represent the mainstream of Cornish language use simply take longer to respond to these issues because they ahve to consult with a much larger membership. The kemmyn orthography was not hastily adopted, it has now been in use for nearly twenty years, and during that time has undergone some minor changes and developments under the influence of the current language speaking community. Nobody would argue that any orthography is perfect but from the point of view of learning a language Kemmyn is pretty good. If you want to learn Cornish I would encourage you to use any orthography - it doesn't really matter. A Cornish speaker can largely understand any form.
Because Kemmyn is the more widely used though, you will probably find there are more learning materials associated with that form. Those that don't use kemmyn largely use unified because they didn't want to change twenty years ago - people like my mum. UCR is the new kid on the block and in my opinion offers no benefits over kemmyn and certainly doesn't command widespread usage.
In terms of road signs - road signs have been going up in Cornwall in different forms for over a hundred years. The reason why there is a chance of more road signs in Kerrier is due to a campaign lead by Mebyon Kernow councillors and is completely independent of other language developments. MK which supports the cornish language (in whatever form) takes the view that when the language is used the people using it should be free to choose their own preferred form. At the end of the day, it is much more important that the language is used than having an argument over spelling. In the case of Kerrier the MK councillors who are leading the campaign, use Kemmyn, therefore the signs should be in Kemmyn. Any form of bilingual signage is better than none at all. (which seems not to be the view of some notable independent councillors in that area!) Some of which have sat on the council for decades and done nothing to try to implement a bilingual policy.
I very much agree with this and I have made much more progress with Kemmyn.
That's right. It's the single most visible thing that can be done to promote Cornish culture. There has been too much talk and not enough action. As the signs go up, people's interest in place name meaning and Kernewek, in general, will be self-perpetuating.
When I visited Land's End in September, there were a whole group of people photographing the new bilingual archway on the way in and on the way out. It sets a good impression. Let's get on with it.
stropps you've got to look around and see the number of different 'Methodist' factions in the old days to understand that if Cornishmen (and possibly women, but I can't speak for them) can find a reason to fall out over something they in general really agree on they will.
ps and that might include you these days ???
Mike wrote
I tend to agree. I started off learning unified as that was all there was around. Dick Gendall and Tim Saunders had some different ideas but at the time weren't a big issue and in fact I found very helpful Dick with pronunciation and Tim with development of terms and words suitable for modern usage. In the end it will be self perpetuating, but I also see this discussion, debate and even arguments as indicating Cornish is once more alive!!
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Nice one strop. And what about the People's Popular Front of UCR? He's over there...
I like it.
