Religion?

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Allister
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Post by Allister » Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:52 am

As I have made clear many times i am new to this forum and therefore don't really know other people's religions and views upon religion in general. I dont particularly want to offend people but hopefully a heated debate might occur. And hopefully i wont get bashed but hunlef or sentinal ;-)

I am an atheist. I have never been religious and was not raised by religious parents and I have always been critical and suspicious of all things christian. My atheism influences and has helped shape my views on life, the universe and politics. I tend to regard anyone who holds a belief in God as misguided and deluded but generally tolerable, I think people who believe in intelligent design or creationism (and ive met enough of them) are truely idiots and I pray ;-) that religion never intrudes upon politics.


please give your own personal opinions etc....

a few questions.

how prominent is christianity in cornwall?
how prominent are other religions in cornwall?
would you vote for someone with strong religious convictions?
if, one day, cornwall gains its rights and independance how should religion be handled in regard to the runnning of the country etc?
do you see religion as an important factor in the formation and culture of cornwall?

thanks

Allister.

Grum
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Post by Grum » Thu Apr 19, 2007 10:56 am

Religion should play no part in the running of any state, IMO, including Cornwall if it becomes a separate one.

I didn't see a huge amount of religiostity down there when I lived in the duchy and I don't think it would be a big part of any autonymous future either - it may have been Catholic way back when before the C of E was imposed upon it, but the modern culture now is completely incompatable with Catholisism.

Crosses on flags are, for the most part, dead relics for most UK nationals and I wouldn't knowingly vote for a strongly religious candidate.

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Allister
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Post by Allister » Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:25 pm

http://quizfarm.com/test.php?q_id=10907

A little religous test similar to the politics test on the other forum.

apparently i'm a mixture of atheism, satanism and paganism.... nice.



Grum
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Post by Grum » Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:13 pm

I scored as 92% agnostic, then aethiest, buddhist and satanist repectively.

Can't see many invites to a church service anytime soon!






edited by: grum, Apr 19, 2007 - 01:14 PM

Joaniewillett
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Post by Joaniewillett » Thu Apr 19, 2007 2:34 pm

Traditionally Methodism is very strong in Cornwall. Much less so now though I think.

Toleration of all things is the best, as long as its mutual.

And religion should be kept seperate to Politics of course! Although naturally everyone's approach to Politics and the world is informed by thier preferences, religion possibly being one of them.


Fulub-le-Breton
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Post by Fulub-le-Breton » Sun Apr 29, 2007 4:54 pm

For my part I have to plug this group, The Cornwall Humanists: http://www.cornwallhumanists.org.uk/index.htm
Humanism needs its preachers as well. A long time ago I did get a response from the above group concerning Cornish devolution and identity and the response was a rather ill informed "nationalim scares me". However the goals of humanism are so important that I will not give up on them and perhaps some of you, if you are humanists, could contact or even join them and debate the Cornish question.

Across the divide I recognise the need for a disestablished church in Cornwall but I will leave the support of Fry an Spyrys up to the Christians among you: http://www.freethespirit.org.uk/indexr.htm

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Coady
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Post by Coady » Sun Apr 29, 2007 7:31 pm

Huge demo today by Turkish people worried that the 'party in power' is moving their state towards Islam. The're not anti Islam, they just want to keep their state free from any religious control.
We live in interesting times!

Joaniewillett
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Post by Joaniewillett » Mon Apr 30, 2007 3:17 pm


Fulub-le-Breton said:
For my part I have to plug this group, The Cornwall Humanists: http://www.cornwallhumanists.org.uk/index.htm
Humanism needs its preachers as well. A long time ago I did get a response from the above group concerning Cornish devolution and identity and the response was a rather ill informed "nationalim scares me". However the goals of humanism are so important that I will not give up on them and perhaps some of you, if you are humanists, could contact or even join them and debate the Cornish question.



I'd say at a guess thier reasoning is along the lines of how identity as a whole is a bad thing as it distinguishes and draws lines between the self and the 'other' - or 'enemy' the person/group/thing that I am not. This 'other' is used by the individual or group to define themselves against, and also is often the scapegoat on which they rest all of thier personal/group problems.

I.e. We, the Cornish are wonderful, amazing people, without a fault in the world. The only reason that we have problems is because of the.... (insert 'other/enemy' here. I can think of a few, can you?). This line of reasoning has understandably led to much conflict, armed and verbal, and is why identity and nationalism can be dangerous, and why there a whole theoretical project (large chunks of post-structuralism in case you're interested, but can see why the humanists would be on board too.) devoted to the eradication of the identity.

Religion has massive issues with the whole 'self-other' thing, and is arguably why religion has and can be so conflictual.

Anyway. If you are still with me, my point is that nice, civilised society must be tolerant of other groups/persons and thier ideas, understand that there are many sides to an argument that all have thier own validity, and that our own personal views are not always right, which is why we need an ongoing discussion about everything!

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Post by Fulub-le-Breton » Mon Apr 30, 2007 3:56 pm

I gathered as much from the person I communicated with but I still see a big difference between nationalism as cultural self defense and nationalism as supremacism.

You can wring your hands and say "I must not create identity barriers between people" as much as you like, but when you consider our identity, culture and way of life is being squeezed of the end of Penwith then such action looks a little like a man sitting in a burning house shouting "Its not hot" to himself.

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Post by Joaniewillett » Mon Apr 30, 2007 9:22 pm

Very true - which is why I personally dont subscribe to that set of ideas. But it is a cautionary tale which I think that the Cornish movement understands - ie, by having an inclusive, civic emphasis on Cornishness rather than an ethnic one.

KingMark
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Post by KingMark » Mon Apr 30, 2007 11:58 pm

Religious... it's a funny word. You can do many things religiously, go to football on Saturday, or Tesco on Wednesday, or even Church on Sunday. Too many people confuse 'religion' with a faith (or even denominations eg Methodism, Anglicanism.) Doing something religiously suggests routine, that it is done because it is always done. I do go to Church on Sunday, but I don't go religiously - it's because I have a personal relationship with my God and I want to meet and worship with like minded people. Problems occur when there is love of 'religion' and not the God behind it. Consider the similarity with the oft quoted expression "Money is the root of all evil". We would be in a pretty sorry state if we didn't have a means of swapping tokens for goods! It is "The Love of Money that is the root of all evil" It is the love of religion that has caused so much trouble over the years. If you study Christian faith (or I believe the Islamic faith) you will not find instructions to hurt neighbours - quite the opposite. One final though for someone who believes there is no room for what they term 'religion' in today's political world... What rules do you live your life by? How do you know what is good and bad? Do you just go by what you believe feels right? What if someone else feels right doing the opposite - how can they be wrong? Do we get our rules from government? I'd be interested to know. As a Christian I believe we have been given a fantastic example of how to live by Jesus when he walked the earth - and I will always believe there is room for real Christian input into daily decisions made in modern life.

Joaniewillett
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Post by Joaniewillett » Tue May 01, 2007 12:22 pm

Fair enough KM, but morality is not exclusive to religion. And the bible and the life of jesus (as any other form of knowledge) has been subject to so many different interpretations over the centuries, that what we might recognise to be ie, christianity is unlikely to be what someone living even a hundred years ago will agree with.

Our interpretation of biblical morality is, I believe, subject to the prevailing mood of the times. Consequently, morality - the things that we consider to be good and evil - is not exclusive to religious interpretations, but are perfectly compatible with secular forms of knowledge too.

KingMark
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Post by KingMark » Tue May 01, 2007 4:25 pm

Although the old testament has ben interptreted in different ways I don't believe that the acts of Jesus or his apostles have. God realised that the original 'rules' weren't working and so sent his son to demonstrate in reality how we should live. His actions are captured in documents the accuracy of which can be proven to be accurate with greater integrity than many other 'accepted' historic documents.

As per my original post, I'd be interested in the source and authority of any secular moral code

Angofbew
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Post by Angofbew » Tue May 01, 2007 5:42 pm

God sent his Son? Why?
If he was God why would he need to?
Lets be honest and say that Jesus was just another Prophet of his times. KingMark, the New Testement has been shown to have been changed to suit the Roman Church. ust after the Time of Jesus, there was at least thirty different 'Christian' Churches, today only the Roman one remains. They were selective in their choices of Gospels and are not always translated correctly. Also they adopted many non Christian concepts into their Church, i.e the Trilogy. The Trilogy did not excist in Christianity untill it moved into the Celtic Areas where it already excisited. Christianity adopted it as to absorb the Celts more easily.
There are so many Myths surrounding Christianity that are or were not in the Religion at the time of Jesus, and to my way of thinking, it is about time this was discussed openly.

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