The Smoking Ban - An Unmitigated Disaster.

Topical debate
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P_Trembath
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Post by P_Trembath » Tue May 05, 2009 10:06 am


zennorman said:
Separate smoking establishments would not work in this crazy world.



Why not?


zennorman said:
There may not be enough custom to make them economically viable.



Apparently, according to figures quoted in this thread earlier, smokers consist of 1/6 of the population. I would have thought that was a large enough group to be economically viable. If, however, there was not enough custom to keep such an establishment in business, then the smokers would only have themselves to blame, use it or loose it.


zennorman said:
In this world of 'job seekers' could non smokers object and keep their benefit if they refused a job in a smokers pub.



There are already jobs that are exempt on grounds of sex, religion, criminal record etc, whats the difference?


zennorman said:
I am not against such establishments in those circumstances but people who use them would have no right to NHS treatment for cancer induced illness.



I wondered when this one would raise its ugly head.

Would you also see the removal of the right to NHS treatment to:-

Alcohol users?
Illegal drug users?
Prescription drug abusers?
Those who are obese?
Those hurt whilst committing a crime?
Extreme sportsmen and women?
In fact, anyone injured while taking part in any sport?
Failed suicides?
Joy riders?
Those injured due to their own reckless driving?
Those injured when they were stupid enough to get into a car that was being driven by someone who was unfit to drive?
Pedestrians who, through carelessness, step out into a busy road and get knocked down?
In fact, anyone who partakes in any form of activity where there is a possibility of harm?

All the above know the risks, and yet still continue to take them, why should they be a drain on our overstretched NHS resources?

Where should we draw the line?


zennorman said:
I do think that betting shops should allow smoking - perhaps as a deterrent to the idiots that bet.



So, gamblers are as despicable as smokers then?

Should we not then ban them from receiving NHS treatment as well?
Everyone, Cornish or otherwise, has their own particular part to play. No part is too great or too small; no one is too old or too young to do something.

Masterclass
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Post by Masterclass » Tue May 05, 2009 10:07 am


Shiner said:


But you didn't state whether your life expectancy figures applied to American Indians who smoke or people living in the inner city slums of London infested with rats and open sewers in the streets.



I googled it.

"Even as late as 1969, the life expectancy for an american Indian was 44 years"

here

Smoking or non smoking, it doesn't make a difference to my rebuttal of your point; lung cnacer is immaterial when one is only expected to live for 40 years".

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Allister
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Post by Allister » Tue May 05, 2009 7:47 pm


OK, legalise cannabis and open Dutch style smoking cafes. That way you'll kill two birds with one stone(r). icon_cool



Legalise Cannabis... agreed.





Again, you've been brainwashed into thinking tobacco smoke is the breath of the devil but bonfires and BBQs only give off safe happy smoke.



It's hardly a fair comparison. BBQs and Bonfires are not usually indoor events.



Shiner
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Post by Shiner » Tue May 05, 2009 7:54 pm


It's hardly a fair comparison. BBQs and Bonfires are not usually indoor events.



The way the weather's been in Cornwall it could become popular.

Actually Zennorman was referring to smokers going out in the pub garden and pissing off the anti-smoking brigade, hence the BBQ comment.

Cannabis should be legalised just to piss off the big corps that led to its illegality in the first place. Good article here.

Masterclass
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Post by Masterclass » Tue May 05, 2009 8:25 pm

If you legalised cannabis, then there'd be a bunch more people with The Mentals around, as it does set off The Mentals with those whose condition was previously hidden.

ThingsThatGoFlirInTheShla
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Post by ThingsThatGoFlirInTheShla » Tue May 05, 2009 8:36 pm


Masterclass said:
If you legalised cannabis, then there'd be a bunch more people with The Mentals around, as it does set off The Mentals with those whose condition was previously hidden.



As does alcohol.

Zennorman
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Post by Zennorman » Tue May 05, 2009 8:37 pm

People are not force fed BBQ meat. If I choose to eat it then this does not affect others. Smoking does. BBQs tend to be outside events. You only need the briefest contact with cigarette smoke to have it in your clothes and hair. Bonfires can also be a problem but some regard those as an antisoial event as well.

As I said before Shiner lives off rather spurious arguments (although at least he has some rather than the pathetic abuse of Mr.Hart. Of course, anti smokers are busy inducing themselves with cancer by stuffing themselves with horrid BBQ meat 24/7.

IF separate smoking pubs could be set up then good luck to them. Unlike 'equality' laws there are no laws that give people freedom of conscience to pick and choose what job they are offered if they are on JSA. Indeed, this government's policy is about forcing people into employment regardless of such issues so there is a real danger that no smokers could be forced into employment in pubs where people smoke.

If people abuse drink, choose to take part in risky activities, commit crimes and get injured: yes they should be denied NHS treatment.

Finally, if people want to bet thats up to them but its a mugs game. Gamblers and smokers tend to represent the sadder ends of manhood.

Masterclass
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Post by Masterclass » Tue May 05, 2009 8:45 pm


ThingsThatGoFlirInTheShla said:
[quote=Masterclass]If you legalised cannabis, then there'd be a bunch more people with The Mentals around, as it does set off The Mentals with those whose condition was previously hidden.



As does alcohol.[/quote]

Hence the 'more'. I wasn't comparing the two, merely pointing out the fact that cannabis use gives rise to The Mentals, at least in those that are predisposed to it. It's fairly safe to assume that they are already drinking booze, hence the caveat.

However, as Zennorman said, Shiner lives in an alternate reality, fueled by paranoia, so I'm not really going to bother arguing most points with him.

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Allister
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Post by Allister » Tue May 05, 2009 8:51 pm


If you legalised cannabis, then there'd be a bunch more people with The Mentals around



Not if it was properly regulated and people were properly educated.

Besides, I would rather run into a group of Cannabis Mentals on a dark night than a group of Alcohol Mentals.


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Allister
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Post by Allister » Tue May 05, 2009 8:53 pm


If people abuse drink, choose to take part in risky activities, commit crimes and get injured: yes they should be denied NHS treatment.



They can use my taxes if they need it. :-)

Masterclass
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Post by Masterclass » Tue May 05, 2009 9:01 pm


Allister said:

If you legalised cannabis, then there'd be a bunch more people with The Mentals around



Not if it was properly regulated and people were properly educated.

Besides, I would rather run into a group of Cannabis Mentals on a dark night than a group of Alcohol Mentals.





No, I meant the fact that cannabis use can set off The Mentals in those that it had been previously undiagnosed in. The Mentals being different from being drunk and aggressive.

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Allister
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Post by Allister » Tue May 05, 2009 9:09 pm

Is that not a result of the much more potent form of cannabis.. skunk?

If cannabis were legalised then you could have a class/strength system, where people realise that not all cannabis has the same effect.

Zennorman
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Post by Zennorman » Tue May 05, 2009 9:14 pm

Allister - there are people who are denied NHS drugs because of cost, so the feckless, stupid or evil should not be allowed expensive treatment.

Masterclass
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Post by Masterclass » Tue May 05, 2009 9:20 pm


Allister said:
Is that not a result of the much more potent form of cannabis.. skunk?

If cannabis were legalised then you could have a class/strength system, where people realise that not all cannabis has the same effect.



I'll find the link to the review paper later, but it might be somewhere on here. There's little to no point rehashing (clever wording, I know) the same debate from that here.

Shiner
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Post by Shiner » Tue May 05, 2009 9:28 pm


Shiner lives in an alternate reality, fueled by paranoia



I wondered where I was, cheer MAsterclass.

By the way, that's what a lot of people say to me when I tell them that Cornwall's not part of England.

I see Youtube got a case of the 'mentals' and pulled the Alex Jones channel today. But then when the main man at Google is a member of the Council for Foreign Relations what else would you expect.

NWO 1 Alex 0

We real mentals will continue on regardless. ;-)

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