Nationalist graffiti

[Marhak]

And they wonder why they don't get congregations.

[saxonscum]

Carrek: I think that if your point was put across in simple, easy to understand language (Cornwall's constitutional status is a complicated subject) through some form of effective media, most right-thinking English people would indeed conclude that you have a watertight case. Your normal man in the street - and I'm not talking about the right-wing hooligan element - knows Cornwall is different anyway, whether consciously or subsconsciously. Why do think thousands of people holiday in Cornwall each and every year? Because they appreciate it's different to the rest of England.

Most would not raise an eyebrow, let alone their voices, if Cornwall were to become a principality on the lines of Wales, a separate Duchy, or (this is my preference) a republic. Annoying them, however, by referring to them as scum immediately creates an us and them scenario, and, as I said, a hardening of attitudes.

Marhak: I'm sorry if I sounded like I was teaching my grandmother to suck eggs, but I regard the English Imperial State description of the government of the 15th and 16th centuries as totally anachronistic. We didn't have an empire, or anything like it at that stage, except for a few bits and bobs in France that we'd managed to salvage from the Hundred Years War.

Tudor was a usurper, his descendants were unlawful monarchs of England and they employed tactics common to that period of history, ie, if anyone gave them any trouble, they were put down with all the savagery possible to deter others from following suit. Whether the king in question, and I'm assuming you're talking about Edward, was nine or 90 matters not one jot.

Cranmer was indeed one of the most evil personalities to come out of a paranoid age. But this question was bound up with religion, not an attempt to crush the Cornish simply because they were Cornish. As I recall, some men persecuted by the Tudor regime during the Prayerbook rebellion were from Devon.

Given the violence of the times, I am sure a Cornish king would have employed exactly the same methods had the boot been on the other foot.

[Marhak]

Cornish prisoners were slaughtered - 900 of them on Clyst Heath (source: John Hayward, Edward I's own chronicler). English prisoners held by the Cornish when they lifted the 5-week siege of Exter were set free, unharmed. So no, we wouldn't have behaved the same way, and we didn't. We acted with honour throughout. During the siege, Cornish (possibly Breton) gunner, John Hammon, demonstrated to Humphry Arundell, the Cornish commander, that he could bombard Exeter with accurate fire-bombs to raze the city. Arundell, anxious to spare the inhabitants, wouldn't let him do it.

[Marhak]

Yes, a fair proportion of our side in the 1549 uprising were from West Devon, Dartmoor tin-miners with a far closer affinity to the Cornish than with other Devon men, and who also had a Stannary Parliament which had also been badly treated. English "Twistorians" never mention that.

[nick00]

there is growing surport for direct action if graffiti is the only way to get are point across then so be it !

[saxonscum]

But Nick00, grafitti isn't the only way to get your point across, is it? Some of the grafitti has, to my knowledge, been around for years, if not decades, and I can't see that it's done much, if any, good.

I don't know what you mean by 'direct action' and I can't comment on your 'growing support' , as I don't have any evidence for that. I wouldn't, would I, because I'm not in the loop.

Direct action to me means civil disobedience, for example, sit-in demonstrations, refusal to pay taxes, street rallies. Or even blocking the Tamar Bridge.

[saxonscum]

Marhak (and others) - belatedly, thanks for all your information, which has led me to investigate matters which I thought I knew something about, but obviously don't.

To clarify, my observation about the boot being on the other foot related to what might have happened, rather than what actually did happen. I was merely wondering, given the extreme violence of the times, what might have occurred if a Cornish/Celtic majority ruled the British Isles and an English minority enclave, based in, say, Kent had dared to rebel.

[Marhak]

A more civilised country and society. (For reference, try Diodorus Siculus C1 AD, quoting from Pytheas of Massalia c. 325 BC).

[nick00]

saxon i think you might have misunder stood me plz dont tarnish me as a yob i,m a hard working cornishman a rare thing these days fed up with seeing the english flag flown around my area so i,ve got together with friends and family work buddys and we are all from now on flying are own flag in our homes cars ect.some feel more strongly and wish to take matters further.also have you noticed how all the new secondry school signs have a english flag on them Reduth as a example brain washing them early to forget who we are.

[Marhak]

Is that right, Nick - about the secondary school signs? If so, then we need to have a real go at Kevin Lavery. His Cornwall Council is the Local Education Authority responsble and it makes his recent words ring very hollow indeed.

[nick00]

can,t say for the others which friends have told me about but saw the redruth one today not happy pard !letter to kevin lavery will be on it,s way i,ll try and get a photo of it and post it here.

[nick00]

just like to say just spent £20 pound on the cornish heritage site and some of my friends are going to do the same it,s a start.first time in years my whole family got together talked about something we all agree on Cornish not english .

[Marhak]

From little acorns . . . That's great to hear, Nick.

[Nige999]

saxon i think you might have misunder stood me plz dont tarnish me as a yob i,m a hard working cornishman a rare thing these days fed up with seeing the english flag flown around my area so i,ve got together with friends and family work buddys and we are all from now on flying are own flag in our homes cars ect.some feel more strongly and wish to take matters further.also have you noticed how all the new secondry school signs have a english flag on them Reduth as a example brain washing them early to forget who we are.

Thats good to hear, fed up with idiots like that fool Trevorpen constantly demanding that we have to be English.

Don't lose heart, spread the word and keep telling "one and all" about things like those school signs. That is disgusting and should not be allowed. Get the spraycans out !

[Carbilly]

Whilst on this subject, I can't help noticing that the Tudor rose is making a return to certain tourist signs. Wasn't there a competition a couple of years back to find a Cornish replacement to the English rose?
I've heard nothing since - what happened? Are they just hoping the fuss has died down and that we'll all go away?