The Duchy Of Cornwall - Penzance Harbour Threatened By Cornwall Council Route Partnership Plan ?

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Marhak
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Re: The Duchy Of Cornwall - Penzance Harbour Threatened By C

Post by Marhak » Mon Feb 06, 2012 12:46 am

One concern only, Roger. The models show lorries out on one of the quays, but where can they turn?

One further question: the most popular scheme is, you tell us, out of the running due to its cost. How does that projected expense compare with that of the notorious and (thankfully) rejected Option A?

Roger Lowry
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Re: The Duchy Of Cornwall - Penzance Harbour Threatened By C

Post by Roger Lowry » Mon Feb 06, 2012 3:30 pm

Looking at the three drawings of the shortlist they all require some extensions to quays to accomodate HGVs etc. All will become clear on Thursday.
As I recall the total cost for the RP scheme both ends and the boat Cornwall Council were going to buy was around £62million. The average cost overrun on major projects is something like 50%. That as I understand it is why the DfT refused to fund it - the cost/benefit didn't add up.

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Marhak
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Re: The Duchy Of Cornwall - Penzance Harbour Threatened By C

Post by Marhak » Mon Feb 06, 2012 3:34 pm

Thanks, but what was the estimated cost of you own most popular scheme? I was wanting to see how the two compare.

Roger Lowry
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Re: The Duchy Of Cornwall - Penzance Harbour Threatened By C

Post by Roger Lowry » Wed Feb 08, 2012 3:38 pm

Marak
Posted reply last night after spending an hour trawling through past docs only to find it is not up. When I get a moment duh....
From civil engineer
The proposed breakwater is a very good idea. The cost of these varies considerably depending on site conditions. Generally per linear meter of breakwater you could expect a build cost of between £10,000 and £30,000. Obviously if you can keep the fat cats away, and you can source materials, plant and labour yourselves the cost could be sub £10,000/m.

We’ve worked the figures for the basic infrastructure cost of our scheme using the Hyder cost figures supplied in Jan 2007. These are for a total breakwater linear length of 1165m and infill volume of 600,000 cubic m. It comes out to £24 million. This assumes no reuse of rock armouring or use of dredged material for infill.

Funding may available from the Shoreline Protection Plan as the breakwater would protect the existing harbour, the station and its approach etc and the new Coastal Town intiative coming in a month or so that distributes profits from the Crown Agents Office. This infrastructure would attract developers and bring economic benefits for future generations in the area.

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TeamKernow
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Re: The Duchy Of Cornwall - Penzance Harbour Threatened By C

Post by TeamKernow » Wed Feb 08, 2012 6:01 pm

Roger Lowry wrote:Funding may available from the Shoreline Protection Plan as the breakwater would protect the existing harbour, the station and its approach etc and the new Coastal Town intiative coming in a month or so that distributes profits from the Crown Agents Office.
Perhaps, Roger, you would be good enough to explain for those readers who may be interested the detail of how profits from the Crown Agents Office are generated and the mechanisms, applicability, means and propriety by which they may be disbursed for the benefit of projects in the Duchy of Cornwall, which is not in England but NEXT to England, like Scotland and Wales.

Roger Lowry
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Re: The Duchy Of Cornwall - Penzance Harbour Threatened By C

Post by Roger Lowry » Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:41 pm

TeamKernow I only know what the Crown Agent told me as follows....

I would add, however, that your group may be interested to know that the Government announced last Friday that it was setting up a Coastal Communities Fund designed to support the economic development of coastal communities across the UK. Linked to the revenues raised from the Crown Estate’s marine estate, the fund will be open for business in April 2012 and details will be published by the Government shortly. Further information can be found on the HM Treasury website at: http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/press_86_11.htm

I would stress that although the fund will be linked to Crown Estate revenues, it is entirely a Government initiative that will be managed by the Big Lottery’s Big Fund and the Crown Estate will simply continue to pass its profits across to Government each year.
Yours sincerely

I have asked the Treasury to send application forms for which we eagerly await.

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Marhak
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Re: The Duchy Of Cornwall - Penzance Harbour Threatened By C

Post by Marhak » Fri Feb 10, 2012 1:04 am

The Crown Estate doesn't own any Cornish territories, or have jurisdiction over them. In Cornwall, their powers pass to the Duchy Estate.

Roger Lowry
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Re: The Duchy Of Cornwall - Penzance Harbour Threatened By C

Post by Roger Lowry » Sat Feb 11, 2012 9:35 pm

Question. Doesn't the Duchy just own the foreshore rights? They may own more but it is my understanding that the Crown own the seabed out to the territorial limits. Their profits, 50% of which are to be distributed to Coastal Towns, are increasing because of leasing rights to offshore windfarms etc.

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Re: The Duchy Of Cornwall - Penzance Harbour Threatened By C

Post by Roger Lowry » Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:18 pm

Marak
Done a bit of research and found in Clive Carters Book "The Port of Penzance" the following...
"A map of the harbour in 1865, at the time the borough of Penzance purchased the foreshore from the Duchy of Cornwall".
It is on page 17 - I tried to get a scanned copy up here but it is beyond my skills. It appears to cover the prom to Chyandour at least.

Ludgvan
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Re: The Duchy Of Cornwall - Penzance Harbour Threatened By C

Post by Ludgvan » Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:22 pm

This fund is not provided by the Crown Estate but by Government.

The prospectus says;

"The Fund will be equal to 50 per cent of the revenues generated by the Crown Estate’s marine assets. The Government has committed £23.7m to support this Fund in 2012/13.

Although the level of funding is linked to Crown Estate revenues this is money that will be provided by the Exchequer."


The Crown Estate does not operate in Cornwall where the analogous body is the Duchy of Cornwall, as Marhak says.

Roger - if you can get hold of a copy of the Foreshore Dispute, it's brilliant reading. You're right to say that below the low water mark the Crown Estate has ownership. Most of the Foreshore in Cornwall, territorially belongs to the Duchy, (but not all of it). However, as far as absolute ownership is concerned (eg in the case of bona vacantia) then everything falls to the Duchy.
Last edited by Ludgvan on Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Ludgvan
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Re: The Duchy Of Cornwall - Penzance Harbour Threatened By C

Post by Ludgvan » Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:33 pm

Roger - interesting regarding the Borough of Penzance buying the foreshore. I understood the Council were preparing to pay Duchy for the part of the beach by Battery Rocks which was between high and low water mark.

Roger Lowry
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Re: The Duchy Of Cornwall - Penzance Harbour Threatened By C

Post by Roger Lowry » Tue Feb 14, 2012 9:36 pm

I may be wrong but I thought they paid the Duchy £20,000 for it. If so and it was already owned by the authority will we get the money back?

Roger Lowry
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Re: The Duchy Of Cornwall - Penzance Harbour Threatened By C

Post by Roger Lowry » Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:12 pm

My Response to Core Strategy

6.3 Future Economic Growth

I would first dispute the number of houses the strategy calls for in Cornwall and locally. CoSERG suggests that 12,500 is a more realistic figure for Cornwall – that would equate to about 1,200 for the West Penwth area.

5,000 houses (say 15000 people) in the area would require significant investment in infrastructure – hospital (considering the way WCH has been downgraded over recent years), schools and jobs etc.

I would suggest job creation should precede housing. A reasonable estimate of jobless in Cornwall is around 16,000.

I believe Penzance Harbour Users scheme would be a catalyst for inward investment and skilled job creation.


1/. The document suggests a requirement of extra 14000 sq. mtrs. of office space – there are currently 20,000 sq. mtrs. at Penlowarth for sale for £750,000.

2/. Harbour area appears to be one of the few opportunities to expand the
town centre in a significant way. The Harbour Users plan would kick start the economy in West Cornwall for future generations.

6.4 Economic Vision for PZ

“Develop cohesive harbour and waterfront strategies. Promote and develop leisure, business and assets available within Mounts Bay to increase its attractiveness to all waterborne users”

Again the Harbour Users plan provides for coastline protection, development opportunities, skilled employment opportunities etc.

6.5.1 Site Options

PM1
Wharfside (Harbour Car Park).

PZHUA scheme would allow this site to be developed and exploited as an asset for the town whilst improving the amenity value of the wider harbour area.



PM2
Coinagehall Street

The sensitive development of this site, including the site of St Anthony’s Chapel, and the area of the heritage wet dock for leisure and tourism etc would make the seafront a more desirable attraction for visitors and locals alike.

PM3
Penzance Harbour
The redevelopment will need to consider the efficient operation of the Penzance to Isles of Scilly ferry, provision of improved moorings for harbour users, the safe transit of pedestrians and cyclists around and through the Harbour area and the provision of modern marine related business premises to service the needs of harbour users.
All of this would be achieved by the adoption of the Harbour Users plan opening the whole area for sympathetic development. It would include a purpose built IoS ferry terminal adjacent to the transport hub for West Cornwall.

PM4
Wherrytown

The Harbour Users plan improves this development opportunity by taking the
commercial zone to the east of Albert Pier and providing a breakwater that could be extended as required to protect the seafront from predicted long term coastal flooding.

PM5
Heliport

The Heliport and the link are going. The PZHUA plan would allow for helicopter passengers (100,000) to be carried by fast ferry from the extensive facilities provided. An opportunity to retrieve the business to the area and provide the attraction to the islanders of a fast, comfortable service that would encourage day trippers and improve their economy in a way they have suggested.

PM6
Harbour Users plan

Whilst the recent focus of harbour regeneration has been almost exclusively upon the need to support and underpin the continued presence of the Isle of Scilly ferry service the future expansion of economic activity will depend not on just retaining existing business but on growing new business and more fully exploiting the maritime sector. The potential here is very great:- boat repair and servicing; angling charters, wildlife charters, sailing schools, small craft bareboat charter, skippered charter, Scuba diving, windsurfing, canoeing/kayaking, surfing, national & international yacht racing. Some of these activities take place currently despite the poor facilities available but could be greatly expanded with a harbour fit for purpose.

How can this be achieved? There are three features which must be provided in order to unlock this great business potential:

1. All tide access for small craft
2. Fully serviced marina berthing
3. Secure shelter in all wind directions.

There are also wider concerns which will have an impact on the town. Predicted sea level rise and increased storminess will threaten the vulnerable transport links to the town with the railway station and Chyandour roadway being at risk of serious damage in future unless protective measures are taken.
There is an urgent need for coastal protection at the eastern approach to the town.

The proposal would include approximately 20 acres of development land that could be used for housing development to counter the mismanagement of inward migration in the past, community workspace, hotels, watersport centre, ferry terminal, it would also stop traffic congestion at the entrance to the town and along the seafront etc. It would also release the harbour car park for development.

Funding could be sourced from the extra £1 billion regeneration fund announced by the government.

The Coastal Communities Fund announced by the Treasury.

The sale of assets i.e. the harbour car park etc.

Funding from the Coastline Management plans

DfT and ERDF.

With this seed funding to provide infrastructure private developers would follow with investment to regenerate the economy of the West of Cornwall.

Ludgvan
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Re: The Duchy Of Cornwall - Penzance Harbour Threatened By C

Post by Ludgvan » Thu Sep 13, 2012 10:21 pm

Potentially good news for Penzance Harbour - the well run Cornwall Council Harbours Board has voted to take over management of Penzance Harbour from 1st April next year.

This is what the Port of Truro looks like under their management:

http://www.portoftruro.co.uk/commercial/

Chairman of the Board Rob Nolan has previously indicated he would look into investing all the income from the harbour (including from the carpark) into the running of the harbour.

Roger Lowry
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Re: The Duchy Of Cornwall - Penzance Harbour Threatened By C

Post by Roger Lowry » Fri Sep 14, 2012 8:24 pm

It has to be said that Truro Harbour Master Andy Brigden as Ports Officer for Cornwall Council has been involved in the management of Penzance Harbour since CC became a Unitary Authority.The Cornishman suggesting that Cornwall Council has rejected Penzance Town Councils harbour development plan may suggest some causes for concern for the grade II* South/Lighthouse Pier, one of the few gems in the town.

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