Serious Cornish discussions ?

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TeamKernow
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Post by TeamKernow » Fri May 21, 2010 4:24 pm

marhak said:

Is there anything the English haven't pinched from someone else?



There are some rabid Engerlanders busy trying to undermine Cornish aspirations with their usual charm at TIC .

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Marhak
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Post by Marhak » Tue May 25, 2010 8:52 pm

What do you see as its 'present form'? 

1)  A distinct, proud and ancient people striving to defend and preserve their lawful rights, culture and identity against overwhelming odds, and to resist relentless attempts at assimilation?

2) Or the silly tabloid version?

My 'Cornish nationalism' falls entirely within the first category.  Please tell us what faults (if any) you find with that.

truru
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Post by truru » Tue May 25, 2010 9:34 pm

I doubt anyone suggests that every Cornish person is also a nationalist. Most of us probably have varying political feelings within our own family so to generalise about all Cornish people is a little far fetched.

Nige999
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Post by Nige999 » Wed May 26, 2010 5:48 am

"I am proud of where I come from. I have noticed that there are some Cornish people here who seem to "discredit and denigrate" anyone even suggesting that Cornish nationalism is not to the taste of all Cornish people."

 

Where did I suggest that in my original post ?

Nige999
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Re: Serious Cornish discussions ?

Post by Nige999 » Thu Jun 03, 2010 1:39 pm

P_trenbah suggested TINE

took at look at the forum and seemed to be what I would describe as moribund. Maybe I am in the wrong bit, dunno

Newforestpolecat
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Re: Serious Cornish discussions ?

Post by Newforestpolecat » Thu Jun 03, 2010 9:31 pm

:o well i was invited on this ere forum nipper ,
mind you some can be a bit frosty while some ignor me ,
it dont bother me none,
like ol pfishy would say we are all europeans now! :)

what did appen to pfishy i wonder nipper

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Kevrenor
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Re:

Post by Kevrenor » Fri Jun 04, 2010 9:02 am

truru wrote:I doubt anyone suggests that every Cornish person is also a nationalist. Most of us probably have varying political feelings within our own family so to generalise about all Cornish people is a little far fetched.
Interesting comments.

I'd be interested in your views of what the term "Cornish nationalism' means to you?

A plain reading of the term nation would outside of Cornwall be: "A culturally homogeneous groups of people, larger than a single tribe or community, which share a common language, and / or institutions, religion, historical experience" (quote).

Note that the UK has been a state trying to be a nation. The UK is many nations.

However Cornish Nationalist appears to a term used by TIC journalists on reflex about anyone who self-identifies as Cornish, no matter what the subject.

It is used as a hate-filled perjorative to the obvious English nats and their sympathisers commenting over at TIC (Nasty Nats).

I'd use the term patriot ("one who loves and defends his or her country") if it hadn't been so degraded in use by the Americans.

carrek
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Re: Serious Cornish discussions ?

Post by carrek » Fri Jun 04, 2010 12:57 pm

Kevrenor wrote:Interesting comments.

I'd be interested in your views of what the term "Cornish nationalism' means to you?

A plain reading of the term nation would outside of Cornwall be: "A culturally homogeneous groups of people, larger than a single tribe or community, which share a common language, and / or institutions, religion, historical experience" (quote).

Note that the UK has been a state trying to be a nation. The UK is many nations.

However Cornish Nationalist appears to a term used by TIC journalists on reflex about anyone who self-identifies as Cornish, no matter what the subject.

It is used as a hate-filled perjorative to the obvious English nats and their sympathisers commenting over at TIC (Nasty Nats).

I'd use the term patriot ("one who loves and defends his or her country") if it hadn't been so degraded in use by the Americans.
I agree with the true definition of "nation", and have long argued that the Cornish are already a nation. The Cornish identity is a national one, not a regional or county one. This is evident in the fact that Cornish people feel about Cornwall in the same way that Yorkshirians, Devonians and Cumbrians feel about England. Cornwall is of course the only de facto county in England where there are people born there who don't automatically consider themselves English.

"Nationalism" can mean so many things, which is something that people who equate Cornish nationalism with English/British nationalism don't understand. Cultural nationalism, ethnic nationalism, civic nationalism, political nationalism, left-wing nationalism, right-wing nationalism, progressive nationalism, liberal nationalism, conservative nationalism, xenophobic nationalism, expansionist nationalism, state nationalism, sub-state nationalism, stateless nationalism, majority nationalism, minority nationalism.

To me, "Cornish nationalism" is really just a handy term that encompasses different strands of the Cornish movement:
- Recognition and protection of Cornish culture, heritage and the language
- Recognition of the Cornish as an ethnic group/national minority
- Recognition of an inclusive Cornish national identity
- Devolution of powers to a Cornish Assembly
- Recognition of Cornwall's constitutional status

Some of us support all these strands equally, some of us support them with varying degrees of enthusiasm, and some of us support one or a few of them but not others. Support for any one of those strands technically makes you a nationalist, but it's up to the individual as to whether or not they choose to label themselves as such, due to the sometimes loaded nature of the term.

(truru)

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Marhak
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Re: Serious Cornish discussions ?

Post by Marhak » Fri Jun 04, 2010 1:47 pm

Britain, of course, is not a nation, but a collection of nations. Which makes titles like "British National Party" a total nonsense.

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Stephen Richardson
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Re: Serious Cornish discussions ?

Post by Stephen Richardson » Fri Jun 04, 2010 3:20 pm

'Nationalism' has acquired a pejorative conotation because it is often hijacked by extremists. Extremists have unfavourably coloured the main Cornish cause(s) by 'logical' links in people's minds. Eg. extreme nationalists are not nice, extreme nationalists support an assembly for Cornwall therefore an assembly for Cornwall can't be nice. (A very simplistic illustration only and probably not a good example.) The problem for moderate nationalism is education. Until people in general recognise that Cornish people are a nation, and that if you believe that and say so you won't be linked to extremist values, then many people will believe that there is something 'wrong' or even anti-social in asserting Cornish rights.

However, the paradox here is that if you are moderate in approach then what you do is not reprted or given any publicity or credence. As soon as there is a hint of 'extremism' (like banning the flag of St Gerorge) then it gets hyped up out of all proportion. So what is the answer? Either you do something a bit unusual and run the risk of it being reported as being extreme or you say something that is understated and it won't get reported.

Cornish Nationalism needs to be like the sun from the famous fable. There needs to be a steady, warm, friendly yet unrelenting stream of truth and information rather than crude rhetoric and jingoistic posturing that is provided by extremist wind.

The problem is that the media like to report the wind rather than the sun.
When one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion.

Kerrow
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Re: Serious Cornish discussions ?

Post by Kerrow » Fri Jun 04, 2010 5:08 pm

'Nationalism' and 'nationalist' are words that have negative connotations. It is a pejorative term.
The Cornish are not going to change that.

carrek
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Re: Serious Cornish discussions ?

Post by carrek » Fri Jun 04, 2010 5:41 pm

Not always, nationalism can be a positive thing when it involves a minority culture or people seeking to protect their interests against a "tyranny of the majority". Think Welsh, Scottish, Catalan, Tibetan, Kurdish, Native American etc.

Nationalism is a negative thing when it is xenophobic and isolationalist, and targeted against other people. It is usually practised by people who seek to represent a majority within a state. Think British (BNP), French (Front National), German nationalism (Nazis in 1930s).

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