Hating the Celts

[rhywun-arall]

Of course, you don't need to draft some hefty Marxist (Historical Materialist) critique of that scene from Hedd Wyn to see at that critical point of WWI, what really goes on in the process of Cultural Liquidation.

Cultures are really only 'liquidated' to consolidate a region and the people living there them as imperial posessions - which from the perspective of these elites, considers the people of these regions no less as 'possessions' (disposable tools of war, to secure their elite interests) and at no point in history is this more evident than WWI. The Celts can't even blame the English in this situation either - the first language to be destroyed by the Norman Invasion was that of the Anglo-Saxons. I'm sure it suited the Norman elite very well indeed that the Anglo-Norman linguistic hybrid which emerged since their land and power grab of Britain is viewed as 'English' to this day. England's true national language is just as much a revival project as that of the Cornish. The difference is, the English are so brainwashed by their own elites that they don't view that to be the case.

[Marhak]

The Normans were sensitive when it came to the Cornish - they appointed Celtic-speaking Bretons in charge. Back then, Breton and Cornish were almost indistinguishable. Your real point lies in that last sentence. How very true! Cornwall's biggest problems can all be traced to successive Dukes of Cornwall, including and especially, the current one.

[Marhak]

English would have been extinct 700 years ago had it not been for one of history's biggest ironies - English was saved by three Cornish-speaking Cornish scholars! John Trevisa, John of Cornwall and Richard Pencrych. Of course, they had no idea that what they did would effectively harm their own native tongue. Had it not been for those three, we'd probably now be conversing in a form of Norman-French.

[rhywun-arall]

Yeah, I don't think the English would ever see any political, cultural or economic gains in a revival of Anglo-Saxon English. The mutual destruction of Anglo-Saxon & Norman-French seen in the Middle English fusion of those languages, is also an event which sees the English nation fused with the feudal interests of the Norman elite. In many ways, this makes most Englishman an agent of the elitist interests of the 'British' (Anglo-Norman) imperial establishment. No matter how lowly on the rungs of the establishment hierarchy an Englishman stands, he can take some sollace in the notion that he is at least one rung above the dirt-poor Celts - and he might voice his distain for them largely, because there is tacit approval in him doing so from his peers on his rung, and from those rungs of the establishment above him. Empire - including those "Rebellious Scots to crush" was always the bottom rung of the 'British' hierarchy which prevented the English working classes from being the true butt of their own social order, so it's somewhat understandable that they wouldn't want to see the arrangement their national esteem rests upon undermined.

I suppose, in a nutshell, the phenomenon of cultural liquidation is something we see when human beings cease to operate within natural, autonomous, subsisting communities/economies and are brought under alien feudal, imperial or capitalist control where human beings are then reduced to mere 'tools' of the new feudal, imperial or capitalist class: Where human beings are reduced to mere 'tool's their function as such becomes more efficient when they can readily understand the orders of their new masters, and where it also becomes desirable that they have no additional language for conspiracy or sedition within that order of things. Cultural liquidation is an obvious stragegy in the cultural hegemony of an imperial power.

On that last point, much of the Anglophone prejudice against the Celts is paranoia, but I think in some subtle ways, stems also from an element of jealousy that unlike the English, (hopelessly fused as they are to the elite interests of their Anglo-Norman 'nation'), the Celts do have a political escape route from subjugation to that hierarchy in the rights to autonomy which their various nationhoods bring. It's here that you see the more Socialistic or Anarchistic English folk who move to the Celtic fringe, occasionally do more in support of the national sovereigntist movement of the regions they've moved to than many local nationals would - some people see more to be gained in political independence from the corrupt and exploitative British establishment than others.

[Marhak]

That's all very true and, on reflection, one can start to feel a bit sorry for the English people who have no route of escape. We can, after a struggle, regain our individual nationhoods, yet remain linked by that mutual interactive, cultural and linguistic bond that's existed since the Mesolithic period when Atlantic sea-trading began. They can't. They don't have that link, and they're solidly stuck with the system they created and placed within their own capital. For them, there's no way out.

[Nige999]

Theres a lot for Trevorpen to read there, long sentences and big words - but at least its the english lanuguage that is heard pure and clear issuing like nectar from english mouths all over this blessed isle. The english langauge spoken by the handmaidens of the glorious land of england, like this one:

[Marhak]

Oh, my God!

[Marhak]

Why, oh, WHY do people post up pictures like that when I've just bloody EATEN?

(Do you think that's the result of royal inbreeding?)

[TGG]

by Marhak » 30 Jul 2010 20:13

Why, oh, WHY do people post up pictures like that ...... when

Or, at any time for any reason?

It has just given Trevorpen and others of his ilk the higher moral ground! Pathetic!

TGG – For The (Real)Reason Why!

[saxonscum]

Speaking as one of those English persons who don't hate the Celts, the Cornish, or indeed any ethnic minority, I would say rhywun-arall has got it spot-on. So-called English superiority is actually bred from a kind of inferiority complex. We've been invaded and assimilated so often we don't know who the hell we are. We even swopped our national saint (St Edmund) for some tarty foreigner from the east. We've got no language of our own and we've been stomped on by an alien aristocracy since the 11th century.

Any wonder people in some quarters are somewhat resentful of the Celtic bloc, who do have a very good idea where they've come from, if not exactly where they're going?

Even my forum name is the result of a sort of inverse snobbery - I'm very proud of being born in England, because although we may be criticised for past actions which under modern examination are not acceptable, we have also done much good (a situation we have in common with many other nations).

Pride in one's nation does not, however, preclude respect for another's.

On a lighter note, I can't see why the photo of the rather large English (if she is) lady has got TGG so hot under the collar. I've seen similar local specimens around Bodmin way.

[Nige999]

I am sorry if my posting caused offence, it was only meant to be a bit of light humour.

[saxonscum]

I wouldn't call her light, Nige999.....

[saxonscum]

Marhak wrote: .The Normans were sensitive when it came to the Cornish - they appointed Celtic-speaking Bretons in charge. Back then, Breton and Cornish were almost indistinguishable. Your real point lies in that last sentence. How very true! Cornwall's biggest problems can all be traced to successive Dukes of Cornwall, including and especially, the current one.'

The Normans were so sensitive to the Cornish, they built castles to control the Duchy's plebs. It makes sense to appoint someone who speaks Celtic so they can demand taxes, with accompanying menaces, in the native language. It saves time, it saves effort and it saves having to kill the taxpayers to get their point across.

You can accuse the Normans of many things, but sensitivity? I don't think so.

[Nige999]

I wouldn't call her light, Nige999.....

shw would be if she took those two big sacks of potatoes out of her shirt....................

[saxonscum]

Unhappily, I think that would only halve the problem.